RE: The Toyota GT86 is more relevant than ever: TMIW
Discussion
You have to almost think of the GT86 like you would a classic car. No one buys an old Ferrari or Aston expecting them to be fast compared to modern alternatives. Similarly, no one is expecting the GT86 to be hugely fast. If you're into that sort of thing, there are plenty of alternatives. Ultimately, it's for people that savour fine handling, a low driving position and the engineering merits of a boxer engine with rwd. It's a niche car for niche people.
In the choice triangle, you have Power, RWD and Cheap. Pick two.
In the choice triangle, you have Power, RWD and Cheap. Pick two.
daemon said:
Swordman said:
In the choice triangle, you have Power, RWD and Cheap. Pick two.
But you dont have to pick two - theres the 370Z or the BMW 140i M Sport, which deliver all three.Both in the same ballpark after discount as the GT86, both sporting over 120BHP more.
Swordman said:
daemon said:
Swordman said:
In the choice triangle, you have Power, RWD and Cheap. Pick two.
But you dont have to pick two - theres the 370Z or the BMW 140i M Sport, which deliver all three.Both in the same ballpark after discount as the GT86, both sporting over 120BHP more.
From www.broadspeed.com
Toyota GT86 Pro (ie, not the poverty spec base model) - list price £28,005, discounted price £25,344
Nissan 370Z - list price £29,185, discounted price £26,726
BMW 140i M Sport - list price £32,650, discounted price £26,277
So for £26,000 +/- £750, you can have a GT86, a Nissan 370Z or a 140i M Sport.
OR to look at it another way, just a variance of +/- 3% differentiate the three.
Edited by daemon on Monday 22 May 19:39
daemon said:
Swordman said:
daemon said:
Swordman said:
In the choice triangle, you have Power, RWD and Cheap. Pick two.
But you dont have to pick two - theres the 370Z or the BMW 140i M Sport, which deliver all three.Both in the same ballpark after discount as the GT86, both sporting over 120BHP more.
From www.broadspeed.com
Toyota GT86 Pro (ie, not the poverty spec base model) - list price £28,005, discounted price £25,344
Nissan 370Z - list price £29,185, discounted price £26,726
BMW 140i M Sport - list price £32,650, discounted price £26,277
So for £26,000 +/- £750, you can have a GT86, a Nissan 370Z or a 140i M Sport.
OR to look at it another way, just a variance of +/- 3% differentiate the three.
More importantly, from your triangle how in blue hell rolleyes does a GT86 deliver two of power, RWD and cheap?
Because i'm counting one....
Edited by daemon on Monday 22 May 19:39
You mention the 86 only fills one of the criteria (presumably rwd), yet you say the other two fill all 3, despite being more expensive. Your logic is flawed.
The 86 is cheap and it's rwd. The others have power and rwd and cost basically £2K more.
Swordman said:
Yes, and on autoebid, you can get a GT86 for £24397.
Uh huh - and thats for the poverty spec base model - not for the comparable spec wise next model up.Swordman said:
Ultimately, it's for people that savour fine handling, a low driving position and the engineering merits of a boxer engine with rwd. It's a niche car for niche people.
Yeah i can imagine you're right - there cant be too many people wake up some morning and think "i'd like to buy a car with the engineering merits of a boxer engine with RWD"...... particularly when they can have a straight six or a v6 for similar money.
Edited by daemon on Monday 22 May 19:59
daemon said:
Swordman said:
Yes, and on autoebid, you can get a GT86 for £24397.
Uh huh - and thats for the poverty spec base model - not for the comparable spec wise next model up.Swordman said:
Ultimately, it's for people that savour fine handling, a low driving position and the engineering merits of a boxer engine with rwd. It's a niche car for niche people.
Yeah i can imagine you're right - there cant be too many people wake up some morning and think "i'd like to buy a car with the engineering merits of a boxer engine with RWD"...... particularly when they can have a straight six or a v6 for similar money.
If for similar money, you're talking an extra £2K for some lardy cruiser, I'll keep the money, thanks.
Swordman said:
Yes, and on autoebid, you can get a GT86 for £24397. That's £1880 cheaper than the bmw and £2329 cheaper than the 370Z. That's significantly cheaper, whichever way you want to cut it.
You mention the 86 only fills one of the criteria (presumably rwd), yet you say the other two fill all 3, despite being more expensive. Your logic is flawed.
The 86 is cheap and it's rwd. The others have power and rwd and cost basically £2K more.
You can cut the cake whatever way you like to favour your GT86, but the reality is it hasnt sold because it is viewed as overpriced, underpowered for the price and Toyota UK have chosen not to support it / promote it in the UK marketplace to the level that other manufacturers have with competitive purchasing options.You mention the 86 only fills one of the criteria (presumably rwd), yet you say the other two fill all 3, despite being more expensive. Your logic is flawed.
The 86 is cheap and it's rwd. The others have power and rwd and cost basically £2K more.
Its a genuine shame.
daemon said:
Swordman said:
Yes, and on autoebid, you can get a GT86 for £24397. That's £1880 cheaper than the bmw and £2329 cheaper than the 370Z. That's significantly cheaper, whichever way you want to cut it.
You mention the 86 only fills one of the criteria (presumably rwd), yet you say the other two fill all 3, despite being more expensive. Your logic is flawed.
The 86 is cheap and it's rwd. The others have power and rwd and cost basically £2K more.
You can cut the cake whatever way you like to favour your GT86, but the reality is it hasnt sold because it is viewed as overpriced, underpowered for the price and Toyota UK have chosen not to support it / promote it in the UK marketplace to the level that other manufacturers have with competitive purchasing options.You mention the 86 only fills one of the criteria (presumably rwd), yet you say the other two fill all 3, despite being more expensive. Your logic is flawed.
The 86 is cheap and it's rwd. The others have power and rwd and cost basically £2K more.
Its a genuine shame.
daemon said:
Its all very well reviewing it and thinking its great. Spending your own hard earned on one is an entirely different thing...
I've no issue with the car itself per se - its the performance relative to the price that i struggle to reconcile.
All IMHO of course - but then i'd have been a potential customer....
What other sports coupes are quicker for less money (RRP)? The hatchback based coupes like the TT, Scirocco, RCZ are similar straightline performance at the GT86's price level aren't they? I've no issue with the car itself per se - its the performance relative to the price that i struggle to reconcile.
All IMHO of course - but then i'd have been a potential customer....
More generally, there are shedloads of diesel TTs, SLK Mercs etc out there which are not necessarily any quicker than a GT86 or a 320d. Posters here claiming that sports cars must be faster than repmobiles are wrong. To lots of people, 7-7.5 secs 0-60 is quick enough regardless of what other cars can do that pace; beyond that, for many sports car buyers it's then a question of preferences, for example between driving dynamics (GT86) and style (TT et al).
braddo said:
What other sports coupes are quicker for less money (RRP)? The hatchback based coupes like the TT, Scirocco, RCZ are similar straightline performance at the GT86's price level aren't they?
More generally, there are shedloads of diesel TTs, SLK Mercs etc out there which are not necessarily any quicker than a GT86 or a 320d. Posters here claiming that sports cars must be faster than repmobiles are wrong. To lots of people, 7-7.5 secs 0-60 is quick enough regardless of what other cars can do that pace; beyond that, for many sports car buyers it's then a question of preferences, for example between driving dynamics (GT86) and style (TT et al).
Not quicker for less - but quicker for similar money - as noted above with the 370Z and M140i. You cant really compare list prices. Nobody pays list. You go with a set amount to spend and get what you can for it.More generally, there are shedloads of diesel TTs, SLK Mercs etc out there which are not necessarily any quicker than a GT86 or a 320d. Posters here claiming that sports cars must be faster than repmobiles are wrong. To lots of people, 7-7.5 secs 0-60 is quick enough regardless of what other cars can do that pace; beyond that, for many sports car buyers it's then a question of preferences, for example between driving dynamics (GT86) and style (TT et al).
I guess i struggle with a look-at-me coupe thats significantly slower than something like a Fiesta ST or only performs similarly to a 320d...
And it seems i'm not alone - thats a general view of its performance.
daemon said:
Not quicker for less - but quicker for similar money - as noted above with the 370Z and M140i. You cant really compare list prices. Nobody pays list. You go with a set amount to spend and get what you can for it.
I guess i struggle with a look-at-me coupe thats significantly slower than something like a Fiesta ST or only performs similarly to a 320d...
And it seems i'm not alone - thats a general view of its performance.
I'm still trying to get my head around some of these discounts - Autoebid are showing the base 370Z at £24241 so actually cheaper then the GT86 - I'm trying to work out who's making money on this.. someone must be.. but no idea who..I guess i struggle with a look-at-me coupe thats significantly slower than something like a Fiesta ST or only performs similarly to a 320d...
And it seems i'm not alone - thats a general view of its performance.
Pauly-b said:
I'm still trying to get my head around some of these discounts - Autoebid are showing the base 370Z at £24241 so actually cheaper then the GT86 - I'm trying to work out who's making money on this.. someone must be.. but no idea who..
Most dealers just treat any stock as "units" so getting a 370Z away means no more to them than getting a Qashqai away and counts towards their quarterly incentive.Pauly-b said:
I'm still trying to get my head around some of these discounts - Autoebid are showing the base 370Z at £24241 so actually cheaper then the GT86 - I'm trying to work out who's making money on this.. someone must be.. but no idea who..
It's because no-one wants to buy one.The 370Z came to market at around (from memory) the £33-35k mark in the UK, so £8k more than the GT86. They've had to discount it very heavily and even then, Nissan have sold a fraction of the total GT86/BRZ sales in the UK despite being for sale for 2-3 years longer.
Compared to a GT86 it's also 2 seats only, 3 adults heavier, handles worse and has noticeably higher running costs. All it needs is 2 more seats, a small diesel engine, some nicer styling, more interior soft plastics, an overpriced long options list and a decent German badge and I'm sure they'd sell a few more...
daemon said:
But you dont have to pick two - theres the 370Z or the BMW 140i M Sport, which deliver all three.
Both in the same ballpark after discount as the GT86, both sporting over 120BHP more.
They're both too heavy (1500kg+) and in the case of the BMW, lacking a proper LSD. I'm not the only one to think that given the shocking sales of the 370Z.Both in the same ballpark after discount as the GT86, both sporting over 120BHP more.
It's interesting you say that Toyota priced themselves out of the market, but then mention Nissan, who did an even better (worse?) job of pricing themselves out of the market. There are less than 2000 370Zs on the road in the UK, if that's not a sales flop I don't know what is. Clearly more power isn't the answer or the 370Z would be outselling the GT86.
For me the only real competition was an Exige, but the practicality issue was too big there.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff