RE: The Toyota GT86 is more relevant than ever: TMIW
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
For the UK market, modifying a car is not really the thing. Of course it does happen, but it isn't mainstream or overly common and usually not on new/newish cars. Insurance is generally anti modifying and even the manufacturers warranty. I don't know how Toyota and Subaru UK stand on the subject, but I'd be quite surprised if they welcomed and endorsed modified vehicles while still in the warranty period.
Mine's modified and has had a fair bit of warranty work (and dealer services). They don't mind, though obviously the warranty doesn't cover modified areas of the car.Insurance isn't that hard to find either, there are some mainstream insurers who cover modified cars, and plenty of specialists.
Flibble said:
Mine's modified and has had a fair bit of warranty work (and dealer services). They don't mind, though obviously the warranty doesn't cover modified areas of the car.
Insurance isn't that hard to find either, there are some mainstream insurers who cover modified cars, and plenty of specialists.
I salute you sir Insurance isn't that hard to find either, there are some mainstream insurers who cover modified cars, and plenty of specialists.
Just curious, what sort of mods do you have? Have you don't any engine work at all?
Starting an article on the 'defensive foot' is never going to change the stigma that the GT86 has an underpowered and not particularly engaging engine.
It may be a great car but all these articles that open on the defensive foot just reinforce stereotypes.
People won't be 'told off' into buying a car. People buy what they want, not what they necessarily need. To me, whenever I see a GT86, it looks like a 300bhp coupe but with an underwhelming engine under the bonnet. Even the GT86 in the 'Direct Line' advert has a muscle car soundtrack added to it.
A fairly good car with a very bad P.R issue.
It may be a great car but all these articles that open on the defensive foot just reinforce stereotypes.
People won't be 'told off' into buying a car. People buy what they want, not what they necessarily need. To me, whenever I see a GT86, it looks like a 300bhp coupe but with an underwhelming engine under the bonnet. Even the GT86 in the 'Direct Line' advert has a muscle car soundtrack added to it.
A fairly good car with a very bad P.R issue.
Flibble said:
Mine's modified and has had a fair bit of warranty work (and dealer services). They don't mind, though obviously the warranty doesn't cover modified areas of the car.
Insurance isn't that hard to find either, there are some mainstream insurers who cover modified cars, and plenty of specialists.
Mine was lightly modded; exhaust, uel headers and ECUtek map plus Bilstein coilovers and lighter wheels.Insurance isn't that hard to find either, there are some mainstream insurers who cover modified cars, and plenty of specialists.
Adrian Flux insured, mods declared, less than £300 pa inc business use.
Fecker still seized though.
Edited by LordGrover on Thursday 25th May 12:38
Flibble said:
300bhp/ton said:
For the UK market, modifying a car is not really the thing. Of course it does happen, but it isn't mainstream or overly common and usually not on new/newish cars. Insurance is generally anti modifying and even the manufacturers warranty. I don't know how Toyota and Subaru UK stand on the subject, but I'd be quite surprised if they welcomed and endorsed modified vehicles while still in the warranty period.
Mine's modified and has had a fair bit of warranty work (and dealer services). They don't mind, though obviously the warranty doesn't cover modified areas of the car.Insurance isn't that hard to find either, there are some mainstream insurers who cover modified cars, and plenty of specialists.
Pretty much everyone has suspension, wheel/tyre and cat-back systems as a minimum.
Max_Torque said:
Fire99 said:
the stigma that the GT86 has an underpowered and not particularly engaging engine.
But it has that 'stigma' because it does have an underpowered and not particularly engaging engine.........Essentially:
"we went out of our way to develop all the parts an end user cannot, pedal placement, steering angles, centre of gravity, driving position"
If you want more power, bolt-ons are easy. If you want more grip, bolt-ons are easy. if you want to lower the CofG it's a damn sight harder.
Poor choice of rods aside, its a 2012 S-chassis car, front engine, RWD, very easy to tune to your tastes, very driver focused, cheap to run and maintain and damn good fun.
My only frustration with the FA20 is the use of sintered rods, it's like the accountants crept into the hardest part of the car to change (or most expensive). If the car had come with forged items, they'd have nailed it. (And the high purchase price in the UK is a little galling)
The standard ECU is highly tuneable, 8 injectors gives fantastic flexibility, and with the restrictive manifold off, they breathe lovely and still pass emissions tests, they respond well to E85, and a little boost which is nice on a responsive 12.5:1 compression engine.
I like the noise mine makes above 4k with a change in cat back system, the standard one was too quiet, and they beg to be revved!
Max_Torque said:
Fire99 said:
the stigma that the GT86 has an underpowered and not particularly engaging engine.
But it has that 'stigma' because it does have an underpowered and not particularly engaging engine.........JB! said:
Have you watched the interviews with the designer and development teams?
Essentially:
"we went out of our way to develop all the parts an end user cannot, pedal placement, steering angles, centre of gravity, driving position"
If you want more power, bolt-ons are easy. If you want more grip, bolt-ons are easy. if you want to lower the CofG it's a damn sight harder.
Poor choice of rods aside, its a 2012 S-chassis car, front engine, RWD, very easy to tune to your tastes, very driver focused, cheap to run and maintain and damn good fun.
My only frustration with the FA20 is the use of sintered rods, it's like the accountants crept into the hardest part of the car to change (or most expensive). If the car had come with forged items, they'd have nailed it. (And the high purchase price in the UK is a little galling)
The standard ECU is highly tuneable, 8 injectors gives fantastic flexibility, and with the restrictive manifold off, they breathe lovely and still pass emissions tests, they respond well to E85, and a little boost which is nice on a responsive 12.5:1 compression engine.
I like the noise mine makes above 4k with a change in cat back system, the standard one was too quiet, and they beg to be revved!
That's all very lovely but to me that only is relevant to a tiny fraction of the market who look at a new car as an option to modify it quite extensively, because they can see the technical design 'gems' tucked away, that are waiting to be exploited.Essentially:
"we went out of our way to develop all the parts an end user cannot, pedal placement, steering angles, centre of gravity, driving position"
If you want more power, bolt-ons are easy. If you want more grip, bolt-ons are easy. if you want to lower the CofG it's a damn sight harder.
Poor choice of rods aside, its a 2012 S-chassis car, front engine, RWD, very easy to tune to your tastes, very driver focused, cheap to run and maintain and damn good fun.
My only frustration with the FA20 is the use of sintered rods, it's like the accountants crept into the hardest part of the car to change (or most expensive). If the car had come with forged items, they'd have nailed it. (And the high purchase price in the UK is a little galling)
The standard ECU is highly tuneable, 8 injectors gives fantastic flexibility, and with the restrictive manifold off, they breathe lovely and still pass emissions tests, they respond well to E85, and a little boost which is nice on a responsive 12.5:1 compression engine.
I like the noise mine makes above 4k with a change in cat back system, the standard one was too quiet, and they beg to be revved!
However, the vast majority of folk who buy a new car, want the car they buy to be the car they want.
I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.
Toyota / Subaru clearly have a vision for what this car is and for some reason refuse to budge from the design brief. The curious thing to me is that if they released an 'R' version (or equivalent) with a F.I engine, I think it would really appeal to the accountants of the firm and sell pretty well.
I've been following the GT86/BTZ story for what seems an age but a winner for me would be Impreza WRX /STi power, Coupe body and RWD in a halo model that isn't ridiculously higher priced than the 'base' N/A model.
I've yet to be otherwise swayed.
Fire99 said:
I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.
A few people have said this.What would you do to it in order to make it look slower, and how many more sales would you anticipate that would create?
Fire99 said:
That's all very lovely but to me that only is relevant to a tiny fraction of the market who look at a new car as an option to modify it quite extensively, because they can see the technical design 'gems' tucked away, that are waiting to be exploited.
However, the vast majority of folk who buy a new car, want the car they buy to be the car they want.
I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.
No. That is only true for UK market, where mods are not common and actively discouraged by insurance business.However, the vast majority of folk who buy a new car, want the car they buy to be the car they want.
I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.
You have to step outside the boundaries of your little island and look wider.
From what I can see outside UK these cars are bought by two kinds of people: those who are fine with the way it is out of factory and don't complaing about it being underpowered and those who will customise them to their needs and will have the car they always wanted.
GT86 is meant to be a true jap Lego car where you buy the base and then make it your own.
UK doesn't understand that since in this country, as far as most people are concerned, 'tuning' is either diesel chipping or ghastly small hatches from Max Power magazine.
Bladedancer said:
No. That is only true for UK market, where mods are not common and actively discouraged by insurance business.
You have to step outside the boundaries of your little island and look wider.
From what I can see outside UK these cars are bought by two kinds of people: those who are fine with the way it is out of factory and don't complaing about it being underpowered and those who will customise them to their needs and will have the car they always wanted.
GT86 is meant to be a true jap Lego car where you buy the base and then make it your own.
UK doesn't understand that since in this country, as far as most people are concerned, 'tuning' is either diesel chipping or ghastly small hatches from Max Power magazine.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Aus it's quite common for people to modify new or newish cars.You have to step outside the boundaries of your little island and look wider.
From what I can see outside UK these cars are bought by two kinds of people: those who are fine with the way it is out of factory and don't complaing about it being underpowered and those who will customise them to their needs and will have the car they always wanted.
GT86 is meant to be a true jap Lego car where you buy the base and then make it your own.
UK doesn't understand that since in this country, as far as most people are concerned, 'tuning' is either diesel chipping or ghastly small hatches from Max Power magazine.
I know of several modified 86's - one exhaust/remap, one rotrex supercharged.
Fire99 said:
That's all very lovely but to me that only is relevant to a tiny fraction of the market who look at a new car as an option to modify it quite extensively, because they can see the technical design 'gems' tucked away, that are waiting to be exploited.
However, the vast majority of folk who buy a new car, want the car they buy to be the car they want.
I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.
Toyota / Subaru clearly have a vision for what this car is and for some reason refuse to budge from the design brief. The curious thing to me is that if they released an 'R' version (or equivalent) with a F.I engine, I think it would really appeal to the accountants of the firm and sell pretty well.
I've been following the GT86/BTZ story for what seems an age but a winner for me would be Impreza WRX /STi power, Coupe body and RWD in a halo model that isn't ridiculously higher priced than the 'base' N/A model.
I've yet to be otherwise swayed.
Well I fall into the "tiny fraction" of the market then ... I would certainly not call myself an aftermarket junkie (far from it) but having done it I can see why people do. There is real potential for significant improvements and not necessarily at silly costs or compromising warranties, reliability and insurance quotes. The GT86 & ND MX5 are two modern (well the Mazda is modern at least) NA engines partly strangled by emissions boll** that give the aftermarket brigade a reasonable canvas for improvement. I cannot comment on the '86 but the Skyactive block being a new engine responds incredibly well, not earth shattering but a NA 214bhp at 7,000rpm and a great torque curve feels decently quick in a circa 1,000kg car.However, the vast majority of folk who buy a new car, want the car they buy to be the car they want.
I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.
Toyota / Subaru clearly have a vision for what this car is and for some reason refuse to budge from the design brief. The curious thing to me is that if they released an 'R' version (or equivalent) with a F.I engine, I think it would really appeal to the accountants of the firm and sell pretty well.
I've been following the GT86/BTZ story for what seems an age but a winner for me would be Impreza WRX /STi power, Coupe body and RWD in a halo model that isn't ridiculously higher priced than the 'base' N/A model.
I've yet to be otherwise swayed.
Edited by Simon Owen on Friday 26th May 15:32
CABC said:
Fire99 said:
However, the vast majority of folk who buy a new car, want the car they buy to be the car they want.
valid point for UK market, not so in other parts of the world. Including some quite big markets!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff