RE: The Toyota GT86 is more relevant than ever: TMIW

[Fire99]

otolith said:

Fire99 said:

I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.

A few people have said this.

What would you do to it in order to make it look slower, and how many more sales would you anticipate that would create?

I think that's about as far from my point as is achievable... I think the engine is the weak link. There is no benefit in bringing the looks 'down' to the powertrain.

[daemon]

otolith said:

Fire99 said:

I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.

A few people have said this.

What would you do to it in order to make it look slower, and how many more sales would you anticipate that would create?

As has been said already - your question misses the point.

To a lot of people a low slung coupe is a fast car. The GT86 is a low slung coupe but ISNT fast.

So it promises the performance with its looks, but doesnt deliver.

[daemon]

Fire99 said:

otolith said:

Fire99 said:

I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.

A few people have said this.

What would you do to it in order to make it look slower, and how many more sales would you anticipate that would create?

I think that's about as far from my point as is achievable... I think the engine is the weak link. There is no benefit in bringing the looks 'down' to the powertrain.

Although.... Toyota do have form for that...

[jamoor]

daemon said:

Although.... Toyota do have form for that...

Ae111 looks far more boring than it actually is

[venquessa]

daemon said:

As has been said already - your question misses the point.

To a lot of people a low slung coupe is a fast car. The GT86 is a low slung coupe but ISNT fast.

So it promises the performance with its looks, but doesnt deliver.

I'm sorry, but you seem to suggest that it's a slow car. It is nothing of the sort. There are faster cars of course, but on the grand scheme of things its certainly not slow. If you are having a wee wk over whether it's 6 seconds or 7 seconds to 60 you are a ...

[daemon]

venquessa said:

If you are having a wee wk over whether it's 6 seconds or 7 seconds to 60 you are a ...

Really? Is that the only way you can get your point across? By relating it to masturbating?

I think that says more about you, than it does about me.

venquessa said:

I'm sorry, but you seem to suggest that it's a slow car. It is nothing of the sort. There are faster cars of course, but on the grand scheme of things its certainly not slow.

Its slow relative to a lot of peoples perception of the performance a low slung RWD coupe should have - its out performed by fairly standard hot hatchbacks - Clio RS200, Corsa VXR, Fiesta ST, and its no quicker than say, a 320d.

That, combined with the price relative to that performance, has put a lot of people off buying them.

You can argue that all you like, but thats the reality of it.

Edited by daemon on Saturday 27th May 08:54

Edited by daemon on Saturday 27th May 08:55

[Swordman]

When it comes down to it, it's not Toyota's fault that the 86 looks fast. It looks that way because when you design a car to certain aerodynamic/engineering benefits, that's how it ends up looking.

Even when a car manufacturer tries to hide a fast car, there are always tell-tale signs, e.g. wide tyres, large brakes, etc. A couple of questions then spring to mind; can boring looking fast cars benefit from aerodynamic improvements? Why don't all cars have these aerodynamic improvements?

To think that good design should be exclusive to fast, expensive cars is an elitist, broken way of thinking.

[SidewaysSi]

daemon said:

venquessa said:

If you are having a wee wk over whether it's 6 seconds or 7 seconds to 60 you are a ...

Really? Is that the only way you can get your point across? By relating it to masturbating?

I think that says more about you, than it does about me.

venquessa said:

I'm sorry, but you seem to suggest that it's a slow car. It is nothing of the sort. There are faster cars of course, but on the grand scheme of things its certainly not slow.

Its slow relative to a lot of peoples perception of the performance a low slung RWD coupe should have - its out performed by fairly standard hot hatchbacks - Clio RS200, Corsa VXR, Fiesta ST, and its no quicker than say, a 320d.

That, combined with the price relative to that performance, has put a lot of people off buying them.

You can argue that all you like, but thats the reality of it.

Edited by daemon on Saturday 27th May 08:54

Edited by daemon on Saturday 27th May 08:55

I am not sure that's the whole story. We gave already discussed the sales success that is the 370Z which you rightly point out is a lot more powerful. I don't think the UK is the sort of place which particualy likes or wants Japanese coupes, paricularly these days. Most people are image conscious above all else so having a car that is a great steer holds little interest. Japanese sports cars have never been that strong sales wise, MX5 aside (for reasons of drop top motoring, little competition at the price being the original etc).

The fact they are quite different to the usual Germans probably harms them as well as people want nice plastics etc if coming from an Audi or Golf.

The world had moved on from the 1990s and most Brits aren't really into cars that are great to drive above else. They want cheap speed, a nice badge and decent interior to impress their mates.

People don't want a car like the GT86. And the few enthusiasts that could/should buy them will find issues with the car as well. Shame.

[venquessa]

Swordman said:

Even when a car manufacturer tries to hide a fast car, there are always tell-tale signs, e.g. wide tyres, large brakes, etc. A couple of questions then spring to mind; can boring looking fast cars benefit from aerodynamic improvements? Why don't all cars have these aerodynamic improvements?

I think it's a matter of compromise. Some people want a car that is easy to get in and out off, has a high seating position for view etc. Spacious interior and so on.

I gather most people these days hate driving and most cars are being designed for that motive, to try and take most of the driving away from them and disconnect them from the road. Having driven a few modern 'normal' cars I was even go as far as suggesting they are getting dangerously disconnected from the road.

[otolith]

daemon said:

As has been said already - your question misses the point.

To a lot of people a low slung coupe is a fast car. The GT86 is a low slung coupe but ISNT fast.

So it promises the performance with its looks, but doesnt deliver.

So you engineer a two litre coupe based on a vision of something that's all about the handling, moderate running costs and the option to modify, then you get the styling pics from the design team and go "Oh fk, they've made it look too good, either we will have to throw the concept out of the window and redesign the running gear for a different market, or we'll have to send it back and get them to hit it with the ugly stick"?

Bizarre.

And anyway, the UK loves fast looking slow cars, look at all the S-line, M-technic and AMG bodykitted soot chuckers.

[yahtzee]

Coming up on 5years ownership, I guess some get it, some don't..

Perfect for what I want. But I don't have to defend it.
It's just fun.

[Flibble]

300bhp/ton said:

I salute you sir


Just curious, what sort of mods do you have? Have you don't any engine work at all?

Air filter, exhaust mods (everything except the second cat), remap, suspension, wheels, a few cosmetic bits. Not much directly on the engine, other than the remap.

[Gary C]

yahtzee said:

Coming up on 5years ownership, I guess some get it, some don't..

Perfect for what I want. But I don't have to defend it.
It's just fun.

well said.

[daemon]

otolith said:

So you engineer a two litre coupe based on a vision of something that's all about the handling, moderate running costs and the option to modify, then you get the styling pics from the design team and go "Oh fk, they've made it look too good, either we will have to throw the concept out of the window and redesign the running gear for a different market, or we'll have to send it back and get them to hit it with the ugly stick"?

Bizarre.

Unlikely thats how it happened, but the reality is, its a low slung coupe with "look at me" styling and then when you do look, well its not really very quick is it?

otolith said:

And anyway, the UK loves fast looking slow cars, look at all the S-line, M-technic and AMG bodykitted soot chuckers.

And ironically, a lot of them can keep up with the GT86...

[daemon]

Swordman said:

When it comes down to it, it's not Toyota's fault that the 86 looks fast.

Correct, however it is their fault that it isnt fast.

I dont have a particularly massive beef about the performance, its the performance relative to the price (and the deals offered on the car) that i have the issue with.

I think Toyota UK havent supported the car in any way. They've been quite lazy and uninterested.

If they're not passionate about selling the car, why should i be passionate about buying one off them?

[daemon]

SidewaysSi said:

I am not sure that's the whole story. We gave already discussed the sales success that is the 370Z which you rightly point out is a lot more powerful. I don't think the UK is the sort of place which particualy likes or wants Japanese coupes, paricularly these days. Most people are image conscious above all else so having a car that is a great steer holds little interest. Japanese sports cars have never been that strong sales wise, MX5 aside (for reasons of drop top motoring, little competition at the price being the original etc).

The fact they are quite different to the usual Germans probably harms them as well as people want nice plastics etc if coming from an Audi or Golf.

The world had moved on from the 1990s and most Brits aren't really into cars that are great to drive above else. They want cheap speed, a nice badge and decent interior to impress their mates.

People don't want a car like the GT86. And the few enthusiasts that could/should buy them will find issues with the car as well. Shame.

Yes, the 370Z has its own issues - particularly perceived running costs, road tax and again, relative disinterest by the UK importer to sell the thing.

[SidewaysSi]

daemon said:

Swordman said:

When it comes down to it, it's not Toyota's fault that the 86 looks fast.

Correct, however it is their fault that it isnt fast.

I dont have a particularly massive beef about the performance, its the performance relative to the price (and the deals offered on the car) that i have the issue with.

I think Toyota UK havent supported the car in any way. They've been quite lazy and uninterested.

If they're not passionate about selling the car, why should i be passionate about buying one off them?

Because it meets my needs. Because I like it etc.

I don't find a car I really like then analyse the manufacturer's psyche to determine whether I put my money down or not. I am obviously in the minority.

[daemon]

SidewaysSi said:

daemon said:

Swordman said:

When it comes down to it, it's not Toyota's fault that the 86 looks fast.

Correct, however it is their fault that it isnt fast.

I dont have a particularly massive beef about the performance, its the performance relative to the price (and the deals offered on the car) that i have the issue with.

I think Toyota UK havent supported the car in any way. They've been quite lazy and uninterested.

If they're not passionate about selling the car, why should i be passionate about buying one off them?

Because it meets my needs. Because I like it etc.

I don't find a car I really like then analyse the manufacturer's psyche to determine whether I put my money down or not. I am obviously in the minority.

Yet you're doing it with me?

I'm passionate about my cars. I dont think Toyota UK are passionate about the GT86. Toyota JPN may be, but they're a long way away....

Edited by daemon on Tuesday 30th May 19:27

[SidewaysSi]

daemon said:

SidewaysSi said:

daemon said:

Swordman said:

When it comes down to it, it's not Toyota's fault that the 86 looks fast.

Correct, however it is their fault that it isnt fast.

I dont have a particularly massive beef about the performance, its the performance relative to the price (and the deals offered on the car) that i have the issue with.

I think Toyota UK havent supported the car in any way. They've been quite lazy and uninterested.

If they're not passionate about selling the car, why should i be passionate about buying one off them?

Because it meets my needs. Because I like it etc.

I don't find a car I really like then analyse the manufacturer's psyche to determine whether I put my money down or not. I am obviously in the minority.

Yet you're doing it with me?

I'm passionate about my cars. I dont think Toyota UK are passionate about the GT86. Toyota JPN may be, but they're a long way away....

How am I analysing your psyche?

Does it really matter what Toyota GB think of the thing? When you pay money for the car, you buy the car, not a conversation with the Head of Sales/Product at Toyota.

[daemon]

SidewaysSi said:

How am I analysing your psyche?

Does it really matter what Toyota GB think of the thing? When you pay money for the car, you buy the car, not a conversation with the Head of Sales/Product at Toyota.

Because you were extrapolating what i said out to be a "big thing" when it was a throw away comment based on how kack Toyota dealers are in general, and how Toyota UK are clearly more interested in selling Yaris to old ladies than pushing for market share with the GT86.

And again, noone mentioned having a 1 to 1 with the head of sales or product at toyota . It would just be nice if Toyota UK pushed the thing a bit - either in terms of sales with a decent pricing strategy or a decent finance package.