RE: NIO EP9 sets new Nurburgring record

[GroundEffect]

Thom said:

^^ Sounds like you have not driven a properly-remapped fairly recent TDI engine?

Even if I work for a company that produces EVs and I have been able to sample that type of powertrain, they embody everything I loathe in a car. As disposable appliances used in polluted cities I support them, but there is no soul whatsoever in this kind of product.
People down the line may come to this website one day, see "Pistonheads" and ask themselves "wth is a piston"?

Remapping is irrelevant. It is the physics of the fuel injecting in to the combustion chamber, it being compressed, igniting and creating a flame front through the cylinder & then accelerating the turbine, the compressor achieving full boost, the air-mass at peak boost going through the CAC & reaching the cylinders - SLOW!

For an EV - Pedal command, PCM commanding power electronics to drive motor to peak torque...and that happening, very easily within 1/10th of a blink of an eye.

The bes

[Thom]

GroundEffect said:

Remapping is irrelevant. It is the physics of the fuel injecting in to the combustion chamber, it being compressed, igniting and creating a flame front through the cylinder & then accelerating the turbine, the compressor achieving full boost, the air-mass at peak boost going through the CAC & reaching the cylinders - SLOW!

For an EV - Pedal command, PCM commanding power electronics to drive motor to peak torque...and that happening, very easily within 1/10th of a blink of an eye.

Repeat after me : FAST is BORING and SLOW is FUN. At least if you call lapping the NR in the latest manual 991 GT3 SLOW.

[Sf_Manta]

Max_Torque said:

And the car was mostly engineered here in sunny Northamptonshire!


Nice to see the UK leading the charge to full electromobility from the front ;-)



;-)

Indeed.. a lot of blood, sweat and tears went into the battery systems on that, mine included.

[Glasgowrob]

utterly stunning car, and dare I say it great to see a british built car grabbing the headlines


stupid figures and i'd love to know the range even at normal speeds.

[GroundEffect]

Thom said:

GroundEffect said:

Remapping is irrelevant. It is the physics of the fuel injecting in to the combustion chamber, it being compressed, igniting and creating a flame front through the cylinder & then accelerating the turbine, the compressor achieving full boost, the air-mass at peak boost going through the CAC & reaching the cylinders - SLOW!

For an EV - Pedal command, PCM commanding power electronics to drive motor to peak torque...and that happening, very easily within 1/10th of a blink of an eye.

Repeat after me : FAST is BORING and SLOW is FUN. At least if you call lapping the NR in the latest manual 991 GT3 SLOW.

You're saying that turbo lag is a good thing, by definition?

And please tell us again how TDIs have 'soul'?

I have no issue at all saying the 991.2 GT3 will be fantastic on the ring but actually I'd rather drive the PDK....

[anonymous-user]

I don't get the hatred, firstly it isn't going to sneak out and eat all the ICE cars while people are asleep! Secondly no one is going to force anyone to drive it, surely the fact that it exists and is mentally fast is something that should be celebrated? I reckon having that torque hurl you forwards instantly and silently must be quite an experience!

[Thom]

GroundEffect said:

You're saying that turbo lag is a good thing, by definition?

And please tell us again how TDIs have 'soul'?

I have no issue at all saying the 991.2 GT3 will be fantastic on the ring but actually I'd rather drive the PDK....

Turbo lag forces drivers to think, anticipate and control their drive. This is called driver involvement. How could this not be a good thing to force drivers to develop some kind of responsibility and develop some mechanical affinity?
I'd say that TDIs suck but, and I hate to say it, I'd have a TDI any day over an EV if I lived in a remote countryside with limited air pollution.
PDK is one of many assistance gimmick that adds complexity, costs and traps drivers into thinking sport cars are all about going FAST.

Anyway I know where you are heading, and sorry this whole thing about always improving EFFICIENCY is where car engineering as a whole has gone completely wrong. When overly efficient cars will ultimately turn drivers into "athletes" focused only on reducing lap times, said drivers may actually become as stupid and clueless as athletes!
Again, I support the development of EVs where air pollution has become a major sanitary issue, but pretending to turn them into any kind of recreational tools of mobility is an utter joke.

[Atmospheric]

Thom said:

sidesauce said:

Why doesn't it make sense? Are cars only fun because of what powers them? Personally I think this car is amazing and instant torque will never get old to me.

In another few generations, ICE powered cars will be viewed in much the same way as horses and carts are seen now. It's funny as the exact same scepticism was prevalent when Mssrs Daimler and Benz were trying to get their fledging business off the ground...

Cars are fun when they give you a run for their money, when they make you feel alive without necessarily bringing you to the edge of the fatal cliff. While this new electric thing is probably one of the fastest four-wheeled thing around, how poor do you think it will be to drive at any legal speed, in the real world?
Electric cars are being reborn for environmental issues in the context of a world-scale consumer society plagued with politics at every level, and as future disposable appliances no EV will ever reach a classic status that hundreds of ICE-powered cars have over a hundred years.

Instant torque is for folks who can't rev an engine or change gears - TDI syndrom.

Salute!

[Ambleton]

Sf_Manta said:

Max_Torque said:

And the car was mostly engineered here in sunny Northamptonshire!


Nice to see the UK leading the charge to full electromobility from the front ;-)



;-)

Indeed.. a lot of blood, sweat and tears went into the battery systems on that, mine included.

A lot of blood sweat and tears from quite a few people went into the project...

[DPSFleet]

This is Piston heads? Fully electric vehicles ought to have a separate section.

[Piginapoke]

It's chuffing quick

[modeller]

Thom said:

Turbo lag forces drivers to think, anticipate and control their drive. This is called driver involvement. How could this not be a good thing to force drivers to develop some kind of responsibility and develop some mechanical affinity?
I'd say that TDIs suck but, and I hate to say it, I'd have a TDI any day over an EV if I lived in a remote countryside with limited air pollution.
PDK is one of many assistance gimmick that adds complexity, costs and traps drivers into thinking sport cars are all about going FAST.

Anyway I know where you are heading, and sorry this whole thing about always improving EFFICIENCY is where car engineering as a whole has gone completely wrong. When overly efficient cars will ultimately turn drivers into "athletes" focused only on reducing lap times, said drivers may actually become as stupid and clueless as athletes!
Again, I support the development of EVs where air pollution has become a major sanitary issue, but pretending to turn them into any kind of recreational tools of mobility is an utter joke.

You'd really take a rattly TDI over an EV? Really? An EV offers a pure driving experience where skill with the throttle rewards .. I had a brilliant drive yesterday (in my i3) weaving my way along country lanes, judging my lines, powering out of corners. I've owned several turbos (and VTEC) - the kick is fun, but that's no different a sensation from the torque wave of an electric motor. I'm happy to adopt new technology .. makes life fun.

[981C]

I'm looking forward to the day that EVs become so widespread that us enthusiasts can have 9krpm screaming 6,8,10 and 12 cylinder engines in our road cars without any worry about CO2 output.

For example, if there were no emissions constraints due to some futuristic carbon capture tech, just how much better could some of the current crop of petrol engines be? I'm sure there must be much massaging of the engine parameters to keep the emissions within banding.

[Ambleton]

981C said:

I'm looking forward to the day that EVs become so widespread that us enthusiasts can have 9krpm screaming 6,8,10 and 12 cylinder engines in our road cars without any worry about CO2 output.

For example, if there were no emissions constraints due to some futuristic carbon capture tech, just how much better could some of the current crop of petrol engines be? I'm sure there must be much massaging of the engine parameters to keep the emissions within banding.

I tend to agree with you, my concern would be that fuel and servicing and spares become so expensive that it becomes a toy for the elite. I'm sure petrol cars will be available for at least another 10 years from now, and then you probably have a 20 year life cycle. Chances are ICE cars will still be affordable for the next 25-30 years, but then what?

[981C]

Ambleton said:

I tend to agree with you, my concern would be that fuel and servicing and spares become so expensive that it becomes a toy for the elite. I'm sure petrol cars will be available for at least another 10 years from now, and then you probably have a 20 year life cycle. Chances are ICE cars will still be affordable for the next 25-30 years, but then what?

The war against the machines...

[Gandahar]

Some random thoughts.

"ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"

"Rather than give it a larger exhaust they need to give it a larger "SUCTION TUBE"

"It's not really exciting is it compared to those Lambo ones where the driver had big balls" I fell asleep after phturzplagen. Thingy

"Toyota GT86 from Fensport please"

https://www.fensport.co.uk/fensport-cars/gt86r-tur...

"Matron, more kettle whistle please"

"ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Edited by Gandahar on Tuesday 16th May 22:26

[Gandahar]

Ambleton said:

Sf_Manta said:

Max_Torque said:

And the car was mostly engineered here in sunny Northamptonshire!


Nice to see the UK leading the charge to full electromobility from the front ;-)



;-)

Indeed.. a lot of blood, sweat and tears went into the battery systems on that, mine included.

A lot of blood sweat and tears from quite a few people went into the project...

Like the Nissan FWD Le Mans Car ?

[Otispunkmeyer]

Max_Torque said:

And the car was mostly engineered here in sunny Northamptonshire!


Nice to see the UK leading the charge to full electromobility from the front ;-)



;-)

I think the company I used to work for were doing the battery system (Vayon... agglomeration of Frost Electronics, Goodwolfe, Ashwoods etc). Shame it went bust.

[Otispunkmeyer]

GroundEffect said:

Thom said:

^^ Sounds like you have not driven a properly-remapped fairly recent TDI engine?

Even if I work for a company that produces EVs and I have been able to sample that type of powertrain, they embody everything I loathe in a car. As disposable appliances used in polluted cities I support them, but there is no soul whatsoever in this kind of product.
People down the line may come to this website one day, see "Pistonheads" and ask themselves "wth is a piston"?

Remapping is irrelevant. It is the physics of the fuel injecting in to the combustion chamber, it being compressed, igniting and creating a flame front through the cylinder & then accelerating the turbine, the compressor achieving full boost, the air-mass at peak boost going through the CAC & reaching the cylinders - SLOW!

For an EV - Pedal command, PCM commanding power electronics to drive motor to peak torque...and that happening, very easily within 1/10th of a blink of an eye.

The bes

I'm imagining traction control on an EV motor is an order of magnitude better than on an ICE, after all you can only choke the ICE back so much without stalling it and the power arrives in pulses. In an EV you can modulate all the way down almost infinitesimally and as you say, reaction times are none existent thanks to major reliance on the speed of electrons.

[anonymous-user]

Otispunkmeyer said:

GroundEffect said:

Thom said:

^^ Sounds like you have not driven a properly-remapped fairly recent TDI engine?

Even if I work for a company that produces EVs and I have been able to sample that type of powertrain, they embody everything I loathe in a car. As disposable appliances used in polluted cities I support them, but there is no soul whatsoever in this kind of product.
People down the line may come to this website one day, see "Pistonheads" and ask themselves "wth is a piston"?

Remapping is irrelevant. It is the physics of the fuel injecting in to the combustion chamber, it being compressed, igniting and creating a flame front through the cylinder & then accelerating the turbine, the compressor achieving full boost, the air-mass at peak boost going through the CAC & reaching the cylinders - SLOW!

For an EV - Pedal command, PCM commanding power electronics to drive motor to peak torque...and that happening, very easily within 1/10th of a blink of an eye.

The bes

I'm imagining traction control on an EV motor is an order of magnitude better than on an ICE, after all you can only choke the ICE back so much without stalling it and the power arrives in pulses. In an EV you can modulate all the way down almost infinitesimally and as you say, reaction times are none existent thanks to major reliance on the speed of electrons.

and even better, you can apply the same negative wheel torque as positive, so you can prevent wheels spinning up if they suddenly loose traction, and because current can be modulated with a KHz frequency control loop, you can keep tyre slip in a very narrow window of high efficiency even under hugely variable load conditions (like riding kerbs etc)

Using a real time dynamic model of the vehicle, corrected with near real time sensor data (kalman filter using accelerometers / yaw sensors etc) you know precisely the vehicles velocity vector, and hence the tyre slip in all axes!