RE: Alfa Giulia vs. BMW M3 vs. Mercedes-AMG C63 S

[Ares]

Quickmoose said:

I can see both sides of this.
Its a C segment 3 box, that has to beat the 3 series. So proportionally and set up it does have obvious overtones....

Seeing them on the screen and in print...I've covered up the face and yes you could put any brand on it to a degree.

I've also seen them on the road. I watch them like I don't watch a 3 or anA4 or C-class...
This is either because it's new and rare, or because it's genuinely attractive and 'different' (in surface treatment and/or detail), I haven't decided yet.
But the big 3 Germans are completely ignored by me purely on the basis of lazy-same-again styling and ubiquity.

For me.

Front, nice
Side profile, lovely
Rear, vinegar strokes

[vsonix]

Nors said:

FN2TypeR said:

That Merc is fugly in saloon guise IMO, it looks absolutely gopping.

Agreed, looks are subjective, but the melted both ends look I find awful.

Alfa for me all day.

I like the 'super' ones like the SLS but otherwise, aesthetically speaking, at least, I've not really liked any 4-door Merc since the W219 CLS-class, and that was probably the first one that tickled me since the late 90s cars. I also think the current generation BMWs are a little fussy and over-styled - still preferable to the Bangle era though. So based on that the Alfa is my favourite in terms of looks, also. True, it's like a composite of all the cars in the sector it's competing against, but at least it's their best features all rolled into one, not the worst, like the Merc seems to be.

[ShahGQV]

In the latest Autoexpress report of the Driver Power survey the standard Giulia was well ahead of its German rivals.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/driver-pow...

[Ares]

ShahGQV said:

In the latest Autoexpress report of the Driver Power survey the standard Giulia was well ahead of its German rivals.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/driver-pow...

As with two other reliability league tables..... Sheep still won't believe though

[kambites]

That's not a reliability table, it's a customer satisfaction survey.

I've no idea whether the Giulia is more or less reliable than the 3-series, etc. but that survey wont tell you. We wont really know until companies like warranty direct start to collate data on them which wont happen until they are well out of manufacturer warranty.

[Wills2]

Has it ever gone wrong?

Yes: 28.0%

A relatively high proportion of Giulia owners report issues, most often electrical glitches.

[kambites]

Wills2 said:

Has it ever gone wrong?

Yes: 28.0%

A relatively high proportion of Giulia owners report issues, most often electrical glitches.

That's not very helpful without seeing the same figure from the same survey for the competition though.

[kiseca]

kambites said:

Wills2 said:

Has it ever gone wrong?

Yes: 28.0%

A relatively high proportion of Giulia owners report issues, most often electrical glitches.

That's not very helpful without seeing the same figure from the same survey for the competition though.

It scored 3rd overall. None of its direct rivals - and by that I mean 3 series, C class and XE, appear in the top 10. The results look to be for the whole range, not just the performance flagships.

The length of its reliability & build quality combined bar looks to be at about average compared to the other cars in the overall top 10.

The writeup was very complimentary about the car, mostly about its handling but the interior quality got praise too.

It didn't win its segment though. That prize went to the Lexus IS.

[kambites]

kiseca said:

It didn't win its segment though. That prize went to the Lexus IS.

I don't think Alfa will lose much sleep about being less reliable than the Lexus, it certainly doesn't seem to bother the Germans.

[E65Ross]

kambites said:

kiseca said:

It didn't win its segment though. That prize went to the Lexus IS.

I don't think Alfa will lose much sleep about being less reliable than the Lexus, it certainly doesn't seem to bother the Germans.

I don't think they'll mind too much until sales really start dropping. I don't think Alfa are worrying them just yet, are they? I have no idea on sales figures but I certainly see fewer Alfas.

[kiseca]

kambites said:

kiseca said:

It didn't win its segment though. That prize went to the Lexus IS.

I don't think Alfa will lose much sleep about being less reliable than the Lexus, it certainly doesn't seem to bother the Germans.

I don't think so, not least because every other car on the survey is less reliable than the IS, with only 1 exception. The only car that scored a higher reliability rating is the Nissan Juke....

[DMZ]

I thought I read somewhere that the reason the Guilia often throws errors during track work is because the diff can overheat and it goes into limp home mode.

I think I prefer the M2 Comp for hard driving and the C63 for day to day. The Giulia has a sublime ride/handling setup but is a bit soft and the interior is not up to scratch. I guess the money was spent on more important stuff.

[greenarrow]

..that softness however makes the Guilia more driveable in the wet. The Autocar COTY test gave the Guilia top marks for friendliness in the wet, whereas the M4 they said was almost undriveable.

A lot of road testing places too much emphasis on dry circuit times IMO
.
In the often damp and wet UK maybe the Alfa is the best compromise?

[Guvernator]

Have to agree, they may be performance orientated but they are still primarily road cars and not at all suited for track work, at least in standard form.

Personally I couldn't really give a damn which one was better at a circuit, I'd never take one there and neither will 99% of owners.

[Ruskins]

DMZ said:

I thought I read somewhere that the reason the Guilia often throws errors during track work is because the diff can overheat and it goes into limp home mode.

Not had any warning lights regarding diff on the 3 track days i took mine on, including Spa Francorchamps.

Now if you drive like a motoring journalist and every corner is a fully lit power slide then i suspect it might get a bit warm but i cant afford to drive it like that and you would get kicked out of any UK track day.

[Ares]

DMZ said:

I thought I read somewhere that the reason the Guilia often throws errors during track work is because the diff can overheat and it goes into limp home mode.

Its limp mode is very sensitive. It can be triggered if you run the fuel level too low. It's very protective of a highly tuned engine. Not a bad thing.

Good thing is it is easy to reset itself too.

[Wills2]

kambites said:

Wills2 said:

Has it ever gone wrong?

Yes: 28.0%

A relatively high proportion of Giulia owners report issues, most often electrical glitches.

That's not very helpful without seeing the same figure from the same survey for the competition though.

Well click on the link and have a look then.....

[anonymous-user]

Guvernator said:

Have to agree, they may be performance orientated but they are still primarily road cars and not at all suited for track work, at least in standard form.

Personally I couldn't really give a damn which one was better at a circuit, I'd never take one there and neither will 99% of owners.

Why won't they? I took my F80 CP on track. Brakes needed looking after but otherwise worthy. Was the only one circulating when it rained. Obviously the car immediately spat itself into the scenery just out of badness. Or maybe it didn't.

They're all good cars, all slightly different, there's nothing wrong with preferring one over the other because what you want from it is different.

I would have loved the Alfa, but having Arnold Clark as your only nearby dealer is a bit like buying a doberman to punch in the nuts every day and acting surprised when it bites your eyebrows off. The F80 was brilliant in any case l, despite having a DCT fault that meant a couple of trips to (different) dealers.

[Guvernator]

janesmith1950 said:

hy won't they? I took my F80 CP on track. Brakes needed looking after but otherwise worthy. Was the only one circulating when it rained. Obviously the car immediately spat itself into the scenery just out of badness. Or maybe it didn't.

They're all good cars, all slightly different, there's nothing wrong with preferring one over the other because what you want from it is different.

I would have loved the Alfa, but having Arnold Clark as your only nearby dealer is a bit like buying a doberman to punch in the nuts every day and acting surprised when it bites your eyebrows off. The F80 was brilliant in any case l, despite having a DCT fault that meant a couple of trips to (different) dealers.

I did say 99%

My point is they aren't really track cars.

[E65Ross]

Guvernator said:

janesmith1950 said:

hy won't they? I took my F80 CP on track. Brakes needed looking after but otherwise worthy. Was the only one circulating when it rained. Obviously the car immediately spat itself into the scenery just out of badness. Or maybe it didn't.

They're all good cars, all slightly different, there's nothing wrong with preferring one over the other because what you want from it is different.

I would have loved the Alfa, but having Arnold Clark as your only nearby dealer is a bit like buying a doberman to punch in the nuts every day and acting surprised when it bites your eyebrows off. The F80 was brilliant in any case l, despite having a DCT fault that meant a couple of trips to (different) dealers.

I did say 99%

My point is they aren't really track cars.

A figure I think is probably pretty accurate, if not, in fact, a little optimistic...?