Modern Cars- No Character!?
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
Sa Calobra said:
The Golf R has recording of engine noises that you play.
Cringeworthy
Do you understand why this is so?Cringeworthy
Hint, how happy would you be to have cars blasting past your bedroom window at 2am with noisy blaring exhausts and intakes? I sodding bet you'd be the first to start a thread titled "bl**dy boy races keeping us wake" or whatever! So, the EU and other law makers have, sensibly, decided to put in place laws that limit the amount of noise a car can make in order to get a better standard of living for everyone. The side effect, from these quieter cars is that in order to give some feedback to the driver in 'sporty' models, that is now best done via secondary methods (be that ducting intake noise to sounders on the bulkhead, or by playing stuff through the speakers etc). Why that should be "cringeworthy" i fail to see. Sounds like (sic) a clever solution to me.........
Cars have in general become pretty dull and boring - in some ways I pity the jobs of vehicle engineers these days. Having to cater for the masses and work around regulation must be the source of frustration for many an engineer.
Strange thread this, it's inevitable that people are going to disagree as 'character' is very subjective.
And let's face it, in 20-30 years time you could have this discussion and everyone would complain about how modern (probably electric) cars have no character, and they yearn for cars like the Focus RS, Golf R, or turbocharged M cars, AMG's or Porsches.
20-30 years ago people probably complained that modern cars like the E36 M3, RS Cosworth, Skyline, etc had no character, and they longed for more cars like the MG Midget, Triumph Dolomite, Austin-Healey...
And let's face it, in 20-30 years time you could have this discussion and everyone would complain about how modern (probably electric) cars have no character, and they yearn for cars like the Focus RS, Golf R, or turbocharged M cars, AMG's or Porsches.
20-30 years ago people probably complained that modern cars like the E36 M3, RS Cosworth, Skyline, etc had no character, and they longed for more cars like the MG Midget, Triumph Dolomite, Austin-Healey...
kurt535 said:
any car in the landrover range. what a load of utter s
t.
i followed the ass of a new discovery today. ugly as sin and like the back of a van.
also laughed my face off when i saw my first evoke soft top at traffic lights last week. not sure the driver was that happy with me.
whoever buys these pieces of modern junk and thinks they're great?
Based entirely on looks?t. i followed the ass of a new discovery today. ugly as sin and like the back of a van.
also laughed my face off when i saw my first evoke soft top at traffic lights last week. not sure the driver was that happy with me.
whoever buys these pieces of modern junk and thinks they're great?
Some proper cringe in this thread, especially enjoy the defense of the Focus RS as having 'character' immediately followed by a detailed explanation of how refined and accomplished it is.
If you cannot see that an Evo 8 or Mk1 Focus RS has more character then the mk3 Focus RS then you're clearly missing the point of the thread and suggest you bow out gracefully before you make yourself look like an even bigger plonker.
Back on topic - the problem seems to be is that cars with 'character' quite often come with flaws, which is part of what makes up the character of the car. New cars are available that do this but you have to look outside the big german marques.
Personally I think lack of character in newer cars is what's driving the classic car bubble, manufacturers are giving us what we think we want and it turns out that actually the manufacturers got it right somewhere between 2005 - 2010. Changes in legislation aren't helping either.
If you cannot see that an Evo 8 or Mk1 Focus RS has more character then the mk3 Focus RS then you're clearly missing the point of the thread and suggest you bow out gracefully before you make yourself look like an even bigger plonker.
Back on topic - the problem seems to be is that cars with 'character' quite often come with flaws, which is part of what makes up the character of the car. New cars are available that do this but you have to look outside the big german marques.
Personally I think lack of character in newer cars is what's driving the classic car bubble, manufacturers are giving us what we think we want and it turns out that actually the manufacturers got it right somewhere between 2005 - 2010. Changes in legislation aren't helping either.
SteveSteveson said:
Not all modern cars are dull at all. We probably have more choice than ever. Mainstream cars have always been rather dull. Now they are very competent and dull rather than a bit rubbish.
I reckon this nails it. "Back in the day" (pick a decade), cars varied wildly in terms of quality, driveability, and safety.These days, the vast majority of new cars have quality nailed, most are pretty good to drive, and will invariably achieve 4 or 5 star NCAP ratings.
This doesn't necessarily mean they have less "character" than cars of yesteryear, it simply means they are more similar to each other these days, leading to feelings that "everything's bland and samey".
I like to walk the "modern classics" path - aside from the obvious price benefits of buying older metal, such cars generally come equipped with all the stuff I want (remote central locking, electric windows, air conditioning, etc.), yet also have a modicum of "character", by sheer dint of being conceived in a different era.
Max_Torque said:
Sa Calobra said:
The Golf R has recording of engine noises that you play.
Cringeworthy
Do you understand why this is so?Cringeworthy
Hint, how happy would you be to have cars blasting past your bedroom window at 2am with noisy blaring exhausts and intakes? I sodding bet you'd be the first to start a thread titled "bl**dy boy races keeping us wake" or whatever! So, the EU and other law makers have, sensibly, decided to put in place laws that limit the amount of noise a car can make in order to get a better standard of living for everyone. The side effect, from these quieter cars is that in order to give some feedback to the driver in 'sporty' models, that is now best done via secondary methods (be that ducting intake noise to sounders on the bulkhead, or by playing stuff through the speakers etc). Why that should be "cringeworthy" i fail to see. Sounds like (sic) a clever solution to me.........
Max_Torque said:
Things change, the world moves on.
Back when everything was black and white, and Britain Ruled the Waves, we had cars and roads like this:
You had to be a real man to drive those, doing "advanced" things like double de-clutching and greasing your trunion bearings every 63 miles. But, as a result, that interaction, felt like character.
Nothing was ever black and white, you call up someone on the GT86 thread for posting rubbish and here you are completing topping it Back when everything was black and white, and Britain Ruled the Waves, we had cars and roads like this:
You had to be a real man to drive those, doing "advanced" things like double de-clutching and greasing your trunion bearings every 63 miles. But, as a result, that interaction, felt like character.
Plenty of quiet roads about still, even in the SE. It's just they aren't all quiet all of the time. Of course if you live in a city or in London, then it's never quiet, but you could hardly go racing about in a sports car in central 50 years either could you!
And no, you don't need to be hairy chested to drive a TR5, nor double de-clutching.
Monkeylegend said:
I fail to see how any mass produced modern car can have "character".
I don't think that mass produced cars have ever had any character. By definition mass production cars are for the masses, who generally just want to get from A to B safely and reliably, and have always wanted to. No-one could ever accuse the Hillman Hunter or Vauxhall Viva of having character, yet they were produced at the same time as the E type, Aston Martin DB6 and various Triumph TRs.Yes and no is the answer for me here.
Any car has some form of character, whether it be positive or negative. Newer cars are no-doubt becoming bigger, heavier, safer, more fuel-efficient and packed with all the latest tech. It doesn't actually put me off them, it's just a different experience altogether.
Older cars definitely have something about them but it's unfair to say that they're all better than the modern equivalents.
Any car has some form of character, whether it be positive or negative. Newer cars are no-doubt becoming bigger, heavier, safer, more fuel-efficient and packed with all the latest tech. It doesn't actually put me off them, it's just a different experience altogether.
Older cars definitely have something about them but it's unfair to say that they're all better than the modern equivalents.
Justin Case said:
I don't think that mass produced cars have ever had any character. By definition mass production cars are for the masses, who generally just want to get from A to B safely and reliably, and have always wanted to. No-one could ever accuse the Hillman Hunter or Vauxhall Viva of having character, yet they were produced at the same time as the E type, Aston Martin DB6 and various Triumph TRs.
Mazda mx5. Enough said, I hate the things but they do have a certain charm and character. It's a mass produced car is it not?Justin Case said:
I don't think that mass produced cars have ever had any character. By definition mass production cars are for the masses, who generally just want to get from A to B safely and reliably, and have always wanted to. No-one could ever accuse the Hillman Hunter or Vauxhall Viva of having character, yet they were produced at the same time as the E type, Aston Martin DB6 and various Triumph TRs.
Yeah but the Hillman Imp, Austin Mini, Morris Minor and 2CV simple ooze character.aaron_2000 said:
Monkeylegend said:
I fail to see how any mass produced modern car can have "character".
MK1 Ford Focus?The thing with older cars, most like pre 1980 or even earlier is, owning a car was a much bigger deal back then. And while it might have been less of a throw away society, keeping a car going was much more hardcore. Even from simple things, like having to use a manual choke thingy in the mornings, points that would need adjusting, carbs that would need tuning, tappets that would need adjusting and so on.
From the 1980's onwards, cars in general became much more "whitegoods" and far more attainable and accessible to more people. Owning a car in 1994 say would be a normal expected standard for most people you'd meet. Owning a car in 1964 would be quite a different story.
This isn't to say modern cars can't have character, but they usually need to be a little oddball or different, something to promote interest in them. As it's the interest that gives them character.
The French are still very good at this. The Cactus and Kapture both seem to have visual character at the very least. As for the Focus, no I don't seen any character in any MK of Focus. The Puma however certainly did have it. As did the Sport/Street KA.
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