Police pull over 'two abrest' cyclists - argument ensues
Discussion
funinhounslow said:
They have the following road signs in the USA - by no stretch of the imagination a car hating culture.
Maybe they should be introduced here to assist those who struggle with basic rules of the road...
Despite not being a cyclist, I would actually support the introduction of those signs and associated rules/laws.Maybe they should be introduced here to assist those who struggle with basic rules of the road...
At least everyone would know where they stood, and it would stop car drivers 'squeezing past' cyclists while there was insufficient room or oncoming traffic.
I think half the problem we have is our vague instructions to motorists on how to deal with cyclists. It doesn't do anyone any good.
Coolbanana said:
Yes, there are more and more cyclists on the road - excellent - so you had better get used to it and adapt accordingly or you'll continue to be a bitter old man wringing his hands every 5 minutes and going red in the face. You don't get to decide the rights of others and no one gives a monkey's how proficient you think you are at driving a car, it is how you treat your fellow road users that will judge your true proficiency. 
For balance, the same could be said to many a cyclist, only substitute "driving a car" for "riding a bike". WinstonWolf said:
blueg33 said:
WinstonWolf said:
blueg33 said:
Driving along the A46 near Tewkesbury yesterday, I came upon a tailback doing about 6-8 mph. The cause, about 8 cyclists in single file spread out over about 50m and going at 6-8 mph (virtually no incline). The northbound lane opposite was busy, so no one could pass the cyclists and leave enough space. It took easily a couple of miles before vehicles could start passing the cyclists.
Many people were delayed by 15 minutes or more, I was doing a 20 minute journey so this was a significant delay.
Quite frankly, cyclist need to show consideration for others if they want consideration themselves. It would have cost them very little time just to pull off the road for a minute or two to let people past.
On my return journey they were still causing a similar issue, but now on the A435.
Why aren't you showing consideration for more vulnerable road users? They have exactly the same right as you to be on the road...Many people were delayed by 15 minutes or more, I was doing a 20 minute journey so this was a significant delay.
Quite frankly, cyclist need to show consideration for others if they want consideration themselves. It would have cost them very little time just to pull off the road for a minute or two to let people past.
On my return journey they were still causing a similar issue, but now on the A435.
One of the things I learned on my advanced driving courses is to set off in plenty of time, that way you don't get stressed while driving.
Please don't make things up.
Actually, if they are holding up traffic they don't have the same right, the HC makes it clear for slow moving vehicles
Rule 169:“Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle.“Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.”
HTH.
As said by someone above, I take to the footway if I can - which I can as my route to work is quite light on peds. It takes me all of ten second to hop up on the footway and allow any cars behind to pass. Rather they were in front of me than behind anyway. I guess the more "lycra" of us 2-wheeled lot probably wouldn't like that as they can't bash the rear wing and shout at the driver as they pass for the benefit of their youtube channel.
WinstonWolf said:
OpulentBob said:
WinstonWolf said:
blueg33 said:
WinstonWolf said:
blueg33 said:
Driving along the A46 near Tewkesbury yesterday, I came upon a tailback doing about 6-8 mph. The cause, about 8 cyclists in single file spread out over about 50m and going at 6-8 mph (virtually no incline). The northbound lane opposite was busy, so no one could pass the cyclists and leave enough space. It took easily a couple of miles before vehicles could start passing the cyclists.
Many people were delayed by 15 minutes or more, I was doing a 20 minute journey so this was a significant delay.
Quite frankly, cyclist need to show consideration for others if they want consideration themselves. It would have cost them very little time just to pull off the road for a minute or two to let people past.
On my return journey they were still causing a similar issue, but now on the A435.
Why aren't you showing consideration for more vulnerable road users? They have exactly the same right as you to be on the road...Many people were delayed by 15 minutes or more, I was doing a 20 minute journey so this was a significant delay.
Quite frankly, cyclist need to show consideration for others if they want consideration themselves. It would have cost them very little time just to pull off the road for a minute or two to let people past.
On my return journey they were still causing a similar issue, but now on the A435.
One of the things I learned on my advanced driving courses is to set off in plenty of time, that way you don't get stressed while driving.
Please don't make things up.
Actually, if they are holding up traffic they don't have the same right, the HC makes it clear for slow moving vehicles
Rule 169:“Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle.“Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.”
HTH.
As said by someone above, I take to the footway if I can - which I can as my route to work is quite light on peds. It takes me all of ten second to hop up on the footway and allow any cars behind to pass. Rather they were in front of me than behind anyway. I guess the more "lycra" of us 2-wheeled lot probably wouldn't like that as they can't bash the rear wing and shout at the driver as they pass for the benefit of their youtube channel.
Brave on PH, very brave
Yeah, I do, especially on the faster, more dangerous roads. But there are hardly any peds at 7.15am, and by cycling on the path I don't restrict the buses behind me to 10mph (or whatever paltry speed I can muster on my mountain bike). If there are peds, I'll either jump back on to the road, or stop altogether and walk it past them. That said, my route takes me past Essex Police HQ, another major station and a prison so the chances of being caught for riding like a cock are quite high.
Again, it's about sharing the space. I don't want to be squashed so I'll ride accordingly. I don;t want to hurt peds or kids, so if I come across them I will stop, slow, allow them to pass etc if needs be.
Ares said:
theplayingmantis said:
Ares said:
blueg33 said:
Except its not, HC 169 and RTA Sect 1. Using the roads without due consideration is an offence under the act. This is clarified by saying that slow moving vehicles should pull over to let faster vehicles past.
In my A46 example, the cyclist were doing less than 10mph on a 60mph road. They were causing a long tailback. Its pretty clear with the use of a dictionary, the HC and the RTA plus a minuscule smidgen of common sense that they were not showing consideration for other road users.
10mph is abnormally slow though. Most half decent cyclists will be50-100% more than that, unless climbing.In my A46 example, the cyclist were doing less than 10mph on a 60mph road. They were causing a long tailback. Its pretty clear with the use of a dictionary, the HC and the RTA plus a minuscule smidgen of common sense that they were not showing consideration for other road users.
As a point of reference, I've just done the Ride London. My speed never got as low as 10mph even on very steep climbs, and my average speed over 100miles and 4000ft of climbing was 22mph
I'd say it's the lycristae who are using a racing bike on a public road, using the wrong tool for the job. Take the fragile, delicate, show-offy, carbon-fibre, skinny-wheeled, underbraked superdaddy wotsits to the velodrome; the real world of potholes, kerbs, etc are perfectly suited to mountain bikes. Don't catch us "waving off" because there's a rough bit of road, or crying with the frustration at missing the latest Strava target. It's the "head-down, watts up, will not stop for anything" attitude of the racing lot that cause the nuisance to your everyday member-of-the-public. (At any public consultation about potential shared cycleways, the peds ALWAYS moan about road racers (the lycra gang, not MTBs).
So, Carbon Colin, get yourself off to the velodrome for your races and time-trials, and leave the rough tough world of public road cycling to those of us that can do it without whinging or breaking our bikes on a wonky manhole lid. You know, while we're all at it telling other road user groups they're not allowed to use the roads and all that.
justinio said:
The road network in our fair old isle just isn't set up to deal with the amount of traffic using it. Our roads are just too narrow.
Why hasn't anyone mentioned Brexit in this thread yet?
Realistically it's not practical to widen all stretches of roads, so whats to be done? Edumacating drivers/cyclists is all well and good, but thats not really the solution, is it?
Exactly. Our roads cannot take the traffic levels. All this talk of Europe this, Holland that is all well and good when you've got half the population/growth, but our towns and cities do not have big enough roads for everyone to have their own segregation. Why hasn't anyone mentioned Brexit in this thread yet?
Realistically it's not practical to widen all stretches of roads, so whats to be done? Edumacating drivers/cyclists is all well and good, but thats not really the solution, is it?
As for Brexit, I think that once we're out, we should ban all this lycra, drop bar, summer peloton, MAMIL, Live strong, Strava, KOM, helmet cam BS. It's all a bit French.
Ares said:
OpulentBob said:
justinio said:
The road network in our fair old isle just isn't set up to deal with the amount of traffic using it. Our roads are just too narrow.
Why hasn't anyone mentioned Brexit in this thread yet?
Realistically it's not practical to widen all stretches of roads, so whats to be done? Edumacating drivers/cyclists is all well and good, but thats not really the solution, is it?
Exactly. Our roads cannot take the traffic levels. All this talk of Europe this, Holland that is all well and good when you've got half the population/growth, but our towns and cities do not have big enough roads for everyone to have their own segregation. Why hasn't anyone mentioned Brexit in this thread yet?
Realistically it's not practical to widen all stretches of roads, so whats to be done? Edumacating drivers/cyclists is all well and good, but thats not really the solution, is it?
As for Brexit, I think that once we're out, we should ban all this lycra, drop bar, summer peloton, MAMIL, Live strong, Strava, KOM, helmet cam BS. It's all a bit French.
Make a bigger difference and possibly reduce the obesity levels.
heebeegeetee said:
We definitely have enough room.
No, we don't have enough room. I do this s
t for a living, I may have mentioned it once or twice . Believe me, the biggest problem we have on any scheme is finding enough room for fully segregated facilities. Then it's cost of utility diversions. Then it's local political factors. Most schemes are either safety or congestion biased. Ideal solutions for both are segregated facilities. The number of schemes that are scuppered because the space available has already been divvy'd up to the max is significant. I've just had 6 scheme proposals come through for a district near me. In order to give everyone the space they need, every single scheme will require front gardens (of established, 100yr old houses) to be bought. It is not feasible - and if we CPO'd it, there would be a street riot.
We have lots of green spaces, but not where people live, commute and work. We do not have enough room in our urban spaces for everyone to be happy. So, we need to share - and that doesn't mean restrict the cars and give the cyclists carte blanche, or vice versa. It means just that - share the road. If there is only a 2.5m lane, then that will be filled by a truck. If that means there is no room for a cyclist to "filter" (aka squeeze past) then the cyclist should bloody well wait. Just like if there's no room to overtake a cyclist, then the driver should bloody well wait. Equally if there is nobody on the footway, then personally I have no issue with cyclists using it.
Ares said:
Interesting turn of events. Just driven to Macclesfield and back, over 6 miles of 60 limit country roads (Over Alderley for locals). Line of c20 cars stuck behind a transit van doing 20mph. First car in the chain, a Police Car.
Based on the video in the OP, should the police car have pulled the van over and had a word? Or should the van have pulled over and let the queue of cars past?
Yes to the first, and if he didn't then yes to the second. Simple Based on the video in the OP, should the police car have pulled the van over and had a word? Or should the van have pulled over and let the queue of cars past?
Mave said:
He didn't say it was ok to hold up traffic.
He said that the risk was caused by someone choosing to overtake.
Those 2 statements are not the same at all.
The risk of the overtake is balanced, or countered, by the frustration of being held up. You need both parties to provide the risk. If the person causing the hold up (be it cycle, tractor, the sunday driver, or even someone with an impatient wotsit behind them) realised that, they would probably realise they are putting themselves at risk by NOT trying to ease the situation. He said that the risk was caused by someone choosing to overtake.
Those 2 statements are not the same at all.
Heaveho said:
OpulentBob said:
The risk of the overtake is balanced, or countered, by the frustration of being held up. You need both parties to provide the risk. If the person causing the hold up (be it cycle, tractor, the sunday driver, or even someone with an impatient wotsit behind them) realised that, they would probably realise they are putting themselves at risk by NOT trying to ease the situation.
Yeah, but cyclists do realise.......and they take an active pleasure in causing others to wait behind them when they could just as easily let them go.saaby93 said:
Mave said:
OpulentBob said:
Mave said:
He didn't say it was ok to hold up traffic.
He said that the risk was caused by someone choosing to overtake.
Those 2 statements are not the same at all.
The risk of the overtake is balanced, or countered, by the frustration of being held up. You need both parties to provide the risk. If the person causing the hold up (be it cycle, tractor, the sunday driver, or even someone with an impatient wotsit behind them) realised that, they would probably realise they are putting themselves at risk by NOT trying to ease the situation. He said that the risk was caused by someone choosing to overtake.
Those 2 statements are not the same at all.
Balance the factors one way vs the other
It's like the knobbers that block slip road entrances, matching speeds with joining vehicles and not letting them in. If you get 2 of these types, they will end up driving in to each other, both ruining their days and their cars, and for what? Slowing down for a few seconds, giving way - there seems to be a pride thing at play. Lots of "I shouldn't have to..." - No, you shouldn't, but it will make everyone's day a bit easier and less stressful if you just DO.
Mave said:
saaby93 said:
Mave said:
OpulentBob said:
Mave said:
He didn't say it was ok to hold up traffic.
He said that the risk was caused by someone choosing to overtake.
Those 2 statements are not the same at all.
The risk of the overtake is balanced, or countered, by the frustration of being held up. You need both parties to provide the risk. If the person causing the hold up (be it cycle, tractor, the sunday driver, or even someone with an impatient wotsit behind them) realised that, they would probably realise they are putting themselves at risk by NOT trying to ease the situation. He said that the risk was caused by someone choosing to overtake.
Those 2 statements are not the same at all.
Balance the factors one way vs the other
Whether or not someone is using the road considerately is a separate subject to our responsibility to make sure our interactions with those road users is safe.
The person being overtaken (in the HC as well as pragmatically) needs to accept their role in the situation, and in the name of self-preservation, should (I hate that word) mitigate their chances of squishment, and reduce the instances of "a poor overtake" - which I say again will more often than not be caused by frustration at being held up.
Can I ask a hypothetical question? Say you have a shared unsegregated footway/cycleway, with no adjacent road, just fences either side. You've allowed 20 minutes for the journey, as that's all it usually takes. You're riding along it, and in front is Granny Scoggins with her Yorkie on a lead, her dawdling on the left side, the dog across the other side sniffing and pissing everywhere, the lead stretched across the path. You cannot pass, and she ignores your calls of "excuse me" or you ringing your bell - assume she's really bloody stubborn and knows her rights as a pedestrian. Do you sit behind her indefinitely, suck it up, and make yourself late for work/your appointment? Do you try and squeeze past? If you squeeze past and clip her, knock her over, do you conceed that it would be entirely your fault? Because that's the equivalent of what you're suggesting for bikes/cars.
Ares said:
NDA said:
Ares said:
NDA said:
Why only two abreast - round my way they prefer a mobile road block approach.
Except that is obviously a club, and almost without exception, they will be road aware, and will pull into single file when there are cars/vehicles behind.When there are no cars, riding in a pack is no issue.
And I saw several over the weekend (down there for the Ride London), I didn't see any larger groups holding vehicles up.
Mave said:
OpulentBob said:
If you squeeze past and clip her, knock her over, do you conceed that it would be entirely your fault? Because that's the equivalent of what you're suggesting for bikes/cars.
Yes.Ares said:
Stickyfinger said:
Add Somerset/Dorset thing as well then.
They certainly DO NOT move over, esp when they have their Time Races along the main A Roads.
Groups don't do time races. You might get individual Time Trials, but you don't get group time races. But don't let small fact disturb your rant They certainly DO NOT move over, esp when they have their Time Races along the main A Roads.
kers then. Gotcha. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff