0-60/Power Figures - Where Does It End?

[GroundEffect]

clarkey said:

I think the progression of the car capable of 0-60 in 6 seconds and 150mph is interesting:

1950s - Mercedes 300sl
1960s - Ferrari 250GTO, the E-Type
1970s - Porsche 911 turbo
1980s - Porsche 911, then Sierra Cosworth
1990s - Impreza Turbo
2017 - All hot hatches

So there has been a fairly steady progression to have performance that was once supercar standards to hot hatches. The modern Golf GTi has pretty much identical performance to a 1996 Impreza Turbo or 1982 911SC, but at nearly 40mpg. Long may it continue!

And so much of that is tyre technology.

[PeteinSQ]

300bhp/ton said:

But have you seen the price of an A45 AMG.... hardly attainable to the masses is it.

This is true but there are other cars which are quite a lot cheaper that are very nearly as fast. Golf R, BMW m240i/m140i, Focus RS etc. The 240i auto does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds.

[Bradley1500]

RBH58 said:

JuniorD said:

Once 0-60 becomes a benchmark that all cars can comfortably meet, the new litmus test will have to be 0-120. That will separate the men form the boys, for a decade or so.

Where the only place in the world you can do that is Germany, and in places like the UK and Australia it will see your licence shredded, again...what's the point?

You could argue, what is the point of any performance car? Does anyone really need anything other than a modest hatchback to get from A to B? What’s the point of a supercar that can exceed 200MPH?

People don’t buy these cars because they need them, they buy them because they want them.

My current car is around 400BHP, more than enough for any situation. But I now want more having experienced and having got use to this level of power. I don’t need more, but I do want more.

Exceeding 120MPH won’t see your licence shredded either. I have and I suspect many others have exceeded that speed in the UK. While technically illegal, it is perfectly safe in the correct conditions, and if you’re sensible you shouldn’t be caught.

aaron_2000 said:

300bhp/ton said:

But have you seen the price of an A45 AMG.... hardly attainable to the masses is it.

That's exactly my point! Plenty of people could have an XR3, or an RS Turbo or a GTE. Even recently, the ST170, Cupra R 225, Civic Type R were affordable, well powered, enjoyable cars that were still in reach of plenty of people. After extras who can really justify an A45 at over 40k. Especially as the early 2000's cars I listed will be just as quick in the real world.

I would argue an A45 is obtainable with PCP deals that are available. I mean, if it wasn’t, you wouldn’t see as many of them on the roads as you do.

Have you driven or been in an A45? The cars you’ve listed wouldn’t see which way one went – even in the real world. It is a properly fast car and with launch control and an automatic gearbox, it is effortless and easy to extract performance from.

Is it as fun as the alternatives you’ve listed? That’s down to personal preference, and personally I can appreciate both types of hot-hatches.

[HedgeyGedgey]

K8-600 said:

These car's aren't anything new as has been said, they are just more common.

A Impreza Type R/Evo (or one of the other many special models) made in 1999 will beat them from 0-60, however where they are different is they also double as comfortable, well equipped cars whereas the Impreza was very raw.

Exactly this, and how many Evos and Subaru's are actually bog standard how they left the factory? Very very small percentage, so in fact they're more like 3.xx to 60mph but sat on a motorway they are completely intolerable. I think it was Jeremy Clarkson who said the biggest development in cars has been refinement and whilst he is a massive cock he is onto something

[anonymous-user]

HedgeyGedgey said:

K8-600 said:

These car's aren't anything new as has been said, they are just more common.

A Impreza Type R/Evo (or one of the other many special models) made in 1999 will beat them from 0-60, however where they are different is they also double as comfortable, well equipped cars whereas the Impreza was very raw.

Exactly this, and how many Evos and Subaru's are actually bog standard how they left the factory? Very very small percentage, so in fact they're more like 3.xx to 60mph but sat on a motorway they are completely intolerable. I think it was Jeremy Clarkson who said the biggest development in cars has been refinement and whilst he is a massive cock he is onto something

Quite. We always get the "the impreza could do better in 1957" responses. What the Impreza couldn't do was deliver that performance along with 20k service intervals, a genuine 35mpg, superb refinement, top notch safety, and an expected 150,000 mile trouble free service life. For £299 a month

[HedgeyGedgey]

dme123 said:

Quite. We always get the "the impreza could do better in 1957" responses. What the Impreza couldn't do was deliver that performance along with 20k service intervals, a genuine 35mpg, superb refinement, top notch safety, and an expected 150,000 mile trouble free service life. For £299 a month

Usually me who makes the PCP jokes haha, well played lol

[Hol]

clarkey said:

I think the progression of the car capable of 0-60 in 6 seconds and 150mph is interesting:

1950s - Mercedes 300sl
1960s - Ferrari 250GTO, the E-Type
1970s - Porsche 911 turbo
1980s - Porsche 911, then Sierra Cosworth
1990s - Impreza Turbo
2017 - All hot hatches

So there has been a fairly steady progression to have performance that was once supercar standards to hot hatches. The modern Golf GTi has pretty much identical performance to a 1996 Impreza Turbo or 1982 911SC, but at nearly 40mpg. Long may it continue!

slight-ish edit (if a bit Pendant). The slowest production 208bhp UK spec Impreza turbo did 0-60 is 5.6-5.7 seconds Where as the modern 197bhp production Golf GTI is 6.7-7.0 according to the inter-web. I wouldn't call a whole second 'pretty much identical'.

Average real-world petrol consumption for the Scooby was only about 30mph..

GroundEffect said:

And so much of that is tyre technology.

2wd drive train advances as well. There were plenty of modified 208bhp (for example) RS Turbos and similar in the 1990's, but few could get the power down, with just a mechanical LSD/no traction control.

Edited by Hol on Friday 26th May 15:33

[Byker28i]

Am I missing something? The TT-RS is around £55k and 0-60 in 3.7-3.9 secs?
http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/tt-rs/18514/audi-tt-rs-r...

[Hol]

K8-600 said:

A Impreza Type R/Evo (or one of the other many special models) made in 1999 will beat them from 0-60, however where they are different is they also double as comfortable, well equipped cars whereas the Impreza was very raw.

Did you by chance read that somewhere on bike forum?

Agreed, that many of the cars left from that era are now likely sporting drainpipe exhausts and coil overs today, but.... Many petrol heads at that time complained that apart fro the STI/WRX versions, the Impreza was actually viewed as a too bit soft and comfortable.

Their best market was young & middle aged families who wanted a quite comfortable family car, but with lots of performance. Does that not sound familiar for the Golf R and AMG45?

[Hol]

Byker28i said:

Am I missing something? The TT-RS is around £55k and 0-60 in 3.7-3.9 secs?
http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/tt-rs/18514/audi-tt-rs-r...

No. you're not wrong:

A launch control system helps the RS record a deeply impressive 0-62mph time of 3.9 seconds

[TheAngryDog]

HedgeyGedgey said:

Exactly this, and how many Evos and Subaru's are actually bog standard how they left the factory? Very very small percentage, so in fact they're more like 3.xx to 60mph but sat on a motorway they are completely intolerable. I think it was Jeremy Clarkson who said the biggest development in cars has been refinement and whilst he is a massive cock he is onto something

One of the main reasons why I could never own one now. In 2002 I had a Cosworth, I was 21 so I didn't care much for comfort on the M1. Nowadays I do which is why I like my performance to come with comfort and refinement.

[Hol]

A user in 2035 said:

I don't care if the 0-60 statistics are the same as some 18year old hatchback when it was new in 2017.
its not nearly as comfortable on the M253 as my brand new 2035 GlidePod and it doesn't have gravity assist, a left handed wotsit or million mile service levels.

Edited by Hol on Friday 26th May 16:33

[HedgeyGedgey]

Hol said:

Many petrol heads at that time complained that apart fro the STI/WRX versions, the Impreza was actually viewed as a too bit soft and comfortable.

I don't understand this bit. Its like saying a base spec golf 1.6 isn't as fast as an R. You are aware you could buy a base spec non turbo impreza therefore it isn't going to handle well. This is what the WRX/STI was then built onto

[K8-600]

Hol said:

K8-600 said:

A Impreza Type R/Evo (or one of the other many special models) made in 1999 will beat them from 0-60, however where they are different is they also double as comfortable, well equipped cars whereas the Impreza was very raw.

Did you by chance read that somewhere on bike forum?

Agreed, that many of the cars left from that era are now likely sporting drainpipe exhausts and coil overs today, but.... Many petrol heads at that time complained that apart fro the STI/WRX versions, the Impreza was actually viewed as a too bit soft and comfortable.

Their best market was young & middle aged families who wanted a quite comfortable family car, but with lots of performance. Does that not sound familiar for the Golf R and AMG45?

I owned a highly modified RB5 for 10 years and was very much part of the scene so feel free to ask me any questions!

[kooky1976]

Alex_225 said:

I have often wondered where the 0-60 battle will end but then if you look at the likes of an RS3/A45 etc they're not cheap cars and in one respect they're beyond what a hot hatch would be in the minds of many.

Being accessible is what make a hot hatch what it is, spending £40k+ on a very very fast hatch back puts them into a different category but they're not cheap as such so still out of the reach to many people.

Regardless of my thoughts on a hot hatch or a hyper hatch or whatever to call them, they'll keep shaving times down until there's no where else to go. There'll be electrically assisted hybrids or full on electric cars which will be easy to get quick. Look at the acceleration of the Tesla models.

The bigger question for me is, will they have any kind of character? I'd gladly have my CLS which still hits 60 in a respectable 4.5 seconds over something that does it in 3.5 seconds because it has a V8 and more soul than an electric car. I guess though even though I just hit 35 I'm a bit of a dinosaur! haha

I concur. I have a 15 year old Boxster which is by no means a fast car but beats anything modern and faster I've been in, in terms of character. Or maybe I'm just saying that because I can't afford anything better. I don't know. I'm confused.