RE: Ford Mustang is best-selling sports car on earth
Discussion
The Mustang is a Muscle Car in it's V8 form to me, not a Sports Car. A Sports Car is an MX-5, Boxster and the like - a 911 is not a Sports Car. A Ferrari F355 is. The term has been applied all too easily by Manufacturers and Driver's alike to anything they want to have a 'sporty' image.
The Mustang is a great car though. My Nephew has owned (100% paid for, not leased) one he got brand new when he turned 16 in Texas. I was over there a couple of weeks ago and he drove me around; he's 18 now and graduates High School today.
The Mustang, Camaro and Challenger are common on the roads of Houston and Orlando - saw them on every trip I made, no matter how local. I can see why they are a best-seller.
The Mustang is a great car though. My Nephew has owned (100% paid for, not leased) one he got brand new when he turned 16 in Texas. I was over there a couple of weeks ago and he drove me around; he's 18 now and graduates High School today.
The Mustang, Camaro and Challenger are common on the roads of Houston and Orlando - saw them on every trip I made, no matter how local. I can see why they are a best-seller.
Nanook said:
3 series Coupe?
C-class Coupe?
Where do you stand on those? The M3 and C63 aren't sports cars?
Someone on the last page said it's not difficult, but it's not straightforward either!
Not difficult... for the Mustang. The others are tougher. C-class Coupe?
Where do you stand on those? The M3 and C63 aren't sports cars?
Someone on the last page said it's not difficult, but it's not straightforward either!
Daily drove a GT86 for almost 3 years, no doubt it was a sports car by how people react to it.
My current daily estate is a good bit faster and even more suitable for track use, but nobody even would consider it being a sportscar.
The very subjective criteria are along the lines that it's 'low slung and looks fast'. I usually ask non-car interested women, if they give a clear cut answer it's not difficult
JohnnyFive said:
cerb4.5lee said:
If I saw a Mustang on a track day I would feel it's out of place because of its size and weight, my V8 M3 was a similar weight to the Mustang and that felt it's weight when you threw it about, and the brakes wilted at high speed even on the road.
So for me personally a sports car is something a lot smaller/lighter than something like the M3/Mustang, just my take on it though and I'm sure plenty would class both the M3/Mustang as sports cars because it's just so subjective.
Most track days will have at least one M3 in attendance, usually more on the bigger circuits. Just because you don't fancy it doesn't mean its out of place. There's also very few completely standard road cars that won't experience brake fade when punished - customers complain about noisy & dusty pads so most OEMs fit pads with compromised top end performance to please 99% of drivers.So for me personally a sports car is something a lot smaller/lighter than something like the M3/Mustang, just my take on it though and I'm sure plenty would class both the M3/Mustang as sports cars because it's just so subjective.
I do get your point and I imagine most like the M3 because it can be used as a jack of all trades, although the problem with that is it becomes a master of none of them.
cerb4.5lee said:
JohnnyFive said:
cerb4.5lee said:
If I saw a Mustang on a track day I would feel it's out of place because of its size and weight, my V8 M3 was a similar weight to the Mustang and that felt it's weight when you threw it about, and the brakes wilted at high speed even on the road.
So for me personally a sports car is something a lot smaller/lighter than something like the M3/Mustang, just my take on it though and I'm sure plenty would class both the M3/Mustang as sports cars because it's just so subjective.
Most track days will have at least one M3 in attendance, usually more on the bigger circuits. Just because you don't fancy it doesn't mean its out of place. There's also very few completely standard road cars that won't experience brake fade when punished - customers complain about noisy & dusty pads so most OEMs fit pads with compromised top end performance to please 99% of drivers.So for me personally a sports car is something a lot smaller/lighter than something like the M3/Mustang, just my take on it though and I'm sure plenty would class both the M3/Mustang as sports cars because it's just so subjective.
I do get your point and I imagine most like the M3 because it can be used as a jack of all trades, although the problem with that is it becomes a master of none of them.
If you live in the USA and frequent track days or autocross events, then you'll find plenty of Mustangs right at home being used for it.
300bhp/ton said:
cerb4.5lee said:
JohnnyFive said:
cerb4.5lee said:
If I saw a Mustang on a track day I would feel it's out of place because of its size and weight, my V8 M3 was a similar weight to the Mustang and that felt it's weight when you threw it about, and the brakes wilted at high speed even on the road.
So for me personally a sports car is something a lot smaller/lighter than something like the M3/Mustang, just my take on it though and I'm sure plenty would class both the M3/Mustang as sports cars because it's just so subjective.
Most track days will have at least one M3 in attendance, usually more on the bigger circuits. Just because you don't fancy it doesn't mean its out of place. There's also very few completely standard road cars that won't experience brake fade when punished - customers complain about noisy & dusty pads so most OEMs fit pads with compromised top end performance to please 99% of drivers.So for me personally a sports car is something a lot smaller/lighter than something like the M3/Mustang, just my take on it though and I'm sure plenty would class both the M3/Mustang as sports cars because it's just so subjective.
I do get your point and I imagine most like the M3 because it can be used as a jack of all trades, although the problem with that is it becomes a master of none of them.
If you live in the USA and frequent track days or autocross events, then you'll find plenty of Mustangs right at home being used for it.
The Mustang to me is a cruiser / muscle car not a sports car.
The C63, whilst weighted somewhat better and with the bigger power and torque advantage is still more of a muscle car than a sports car because it doesn't have as good a chassis as the M3 which is more suited to a track car than daily driver in my own personal opinion, because that's where you can enjoy it the most.
So...I'd actually argue the M3 is more of a sports car than a Mustang, but then - who really cares what the definition is as long as you enjoy what you drive
Well one thing is for sure. If I had a Mustang I'd certainly use it like a sports car. I.e. For spirited fun drives on country B roads. I'd also probably opt for the convertible to have the roof down while doing this too.
I have 3 "sports cars" one British, one German and one American.
I have 3 "sports cars" one British, one German and one American.
The think the problem is its hard to fit every car into a category, there is inevitable crossover especially with the volume of different cars being produced for niches that never used to exist...Sports SUVs, Crossovers, Small hatchbacks, Taller hatchbacks, Normal hatchbacks, Coupes in 2/4 door and many examples in between. Some are based on sportier cars than others, some are styled to look sporty whilst having more humble mechanicals such as being based on a saloon platform etc...
As such some cars are clearcut and others are not, a Continental GT would to most people be the very definition of a GT (it is even in the name) but it does cross into supercar territory with performance and price. Same can be said of the DB9.
The Vantage however sits nicely as a Sportscar, but then look at the 911.. most would say a Sportscar but yet the Turbo is a supercar.
There are also plenty of cars that would have been called Supercars that are now called Sportscars because performance has moved on.. yet some people still refer to the Ferrari Dino 308 GT4 as a Supercar.. so does that mean a car is categorised when new? Or does an old car get recategorised?
I think the answer is.. THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER!
Some cars just happen to be borderline or sit in two or more categories..
As such some cars are clearcut and others are not, a Continental GT would to most people be the very definition of a GT (it is even in the name) but it does cross into supercar territory with performance and price. Same can be said of the DB9.
The Vantage however sits nicely as a Sportscar, but then look at the 911.. most would say a Sportscar but yet the Turbo is a supercar.
There are also plenty of cars that would have been called Supercars that are now called Sportscars because performance has moved on.. yet some people still refer to the Ferrari Dino 308 GT4 as a Supercar.. so does that mean a car is categorised when new? Or does an old car get recategorised?
I think the answer is.. THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER!
Some cars just happen to be borderline or sit in two or more categories..
NickCW said:
The think the problem is its hard to fit every car into a category, there is inevitable crossover especially with the volume of different cars being produced for niches that never used to exist...Sports SUVs, Crossovers, Small hatchbacks, Taller hatchbacks, Normal hatchbacks, Coupes in 2/4 door and many examples in between. Some are based on sportier cars than others, some are styled to look sporty whilst having more humble mechanicals such as being based on a saloon platform etc...
As such some cars are clearcut and others are not, a Continental GT would to most people be the very definition of a GT (it is even in the name) but it does cross into supercar territory with performance and price. Same can be said of the DB9.
The Vantage however sits nicely as a Sportscar, but then look at the 911.. most would say a Sportscar but yet the Turbo is a supercar.
There are also plenty of cars that would have been called Supercars that are now called Sportscars because performance has moved on.. yet some people still refer to the Ferrari Dino 308 GT4 as a Supercar.. so does that mean a car is categorised when new? Or does an old car get recategorised?
I think the answer is.. THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER!
Some cars just happen to be borderline or sit in two or more categories..
^^^ Sensible answer As such some cars are clearcut and others are not, a Continental GT would to most people be the very definition of a GT (it is even in the name) but it does cross into supercar territory with performance and price. Same can be said of the DB9.
The Vantage however sits nicely as a Sportscar, but then look at the 911.. most would say a Sportscar but yet the Turbo is a supercar.
There are also plenty of cars that would have been called Supercars that are now called Sportscars because performance has moved on.. yet some people still refer to the Ferrari Dino 308 GT4 as a Supercar.. so does that mean a car is categorised when new? Or does an old car get recategorised?
I think the answer is.. THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER!
Some cars just happen to be borderline or sit in two or more categories..
.The only thing I think should be done for trade descriptions is the abbreviation SUV or "Sport" Utility Vehicle.
Personally I see nothing remotely "sporty" about a four by four or crossover, whether it's a Range Rover, a Kia Sportage, a Porsche Cayenne, a Nissan Juke, whatever - it's still just a giant 4x4 pretender, and whatever engine you stick in it, it's still not a sports car, it's a big heavy unwieldy thing whose primary purpose is to transport a lot of people in comfort.
Maybe this makes a Rolls Royce a...."sport luxury barge"? heh
No, marketing people, just no - although I guess it helps some of us Dads who are unlucky enough to get lumbered with the family car and don't get a choice in the matter to feel a little better about ourselves!
knighty said:
My friend recently bought a V8 Mustang, metallic blue, and stunning to look at, after 4 months of ownership he is utterly in love with it........I took it out for a drive myself, and I can quite honestly say it most certainly IS a sports car!......after a 20 minute drive I was grinning from ear to ear, and I have driven some enough fast cars in my time, and its a lovely bit of kit, quite honestly I'm mystified why Ford have not sold a lot more, as the UK sales figures are pitiful.
Sales volume is limited by production capacity at Flat Rock my man, not by demand. Still a significant waiting list if you want one over herekambites said:
300bhp/ton said:
Sadly the inverse of that would mean a Renault Clio Williams is a sports car.
As would a 2CV (there's a thriving 2CV racing scene). 
However I would happily accept a Clio Williams as a sports car in the definition. It's both used for sport, and would look at home on a trackday. Sportscar as far as I'm concerned.
Munter said:
A 2CV would not be "at home" on a trackday. Used for sport, but not looking at home = failed the test. Just a car.
However I would happily accept a Clio Williams as a sports car in the definition. It's both used for sport, and would look at home on a trackday. Sportscar as far as I'm concerned.
A fwd hatchback cannot be a sports car. Even if it's brilliant. Because it's a fwd hatchback. However I would happily accept a Clio Williams as a sports car in the definition. It's both used for sport, and would look at home on a trackday. Sportscar as far as I'm concerned.
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