RE: Ford Mustang is best-selling sports car on earth

[kambites]

ash73 said:

I think you need to broaden your definition of sports car. For most people a sports car is any car designed with sporting pretensions. Why must it be under a certain weight? That makes no sense.

If you take that path, you end up defining 320ds as "sports cars" as long as they have big wheels and an M-Sport body kit.

Now I'm not saying that's wrong, there's no right of wrong in semantic arguments of this nature, but it's decidedly unhelpful - we'd need another word to describe, well, sports cars.

I suppose it's not really any different than all these SUVs, four-door saloons and ordinary three-door hatchbacks being called "coupes".

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 24th May 11:53

[98elise]

kambites said:

roland82 said:

I think the definition of 'sports car' is very broad especially these days.

More to the point it's also very vague. It's become more a marketing term, used to describe everything from hot hatches to super saloons, than a useful sector denominator.

I wouldn't call the Mustang a sports car any more than I'd call the M4 one; but there's not really a "correct" definition.

IMO there are two definitions of sports car.

1. Small light 2 seater etc etc, which defines a particular type of performance car
2. The generic marketing term for any performance car.

1. is a sub type of 2. A mustang is a sports car (2) but more specifically a sports coupe (1)

[CaptainSensib1e]

Don't understand why everyone seems to be getting getting their knickers in a twist about the definition of a sports car.

'Sports cars' were originally small two seater RWD like MGBs and Austin Healeys. Theses types of cars aren't really made any more so the definition has moved on. A bit like how 'gay' doens't mean happy any more, although that's the original definition.

[Onehp]

kambites said:

If you take that path, you end up defining 320ds as "sports cars" as long as they have big wheels and an M-Sport body kit.

And there I think you underestimate the general public again. Very few would consider that a sports car.

Most on here have a very technocentric definition, while the perception of technology that ultimately defines the use of it, is much more aesthetic and about social acceptance.

spikyone said:

Those random people might have no interest in cars. So why is their answer more valid than the opinion of people who do have an interest in cars, as most of the posters here do?

Because when defining 'things', it very much depends on what 'all' people perceive, as that is the very basis on making language understandable. PH is, realise or not, subculture and cars are very much a mainstream phenomenon where most people have, if not deeply rooted interest, at least an opinion.

[kambites]

Onehp said:

kambites said:

If you take that path, you end up defining 320ds as "sports cars" as long as they have big wheels and an M-Sport body kit.

And there I think you underestimate the general public again. Very few would consider that a sports car.

I don't think I'm under- or over- estimating anything. As I said I don't think a definition including the 320d as a sports car is "wrong" because I don't think there's such a thing as write and wrong in this sort of discussion.

[SturdyHSV]

Good for Ford, I'm glad they're selling well and long may it continue with the V8s on top

[ukaskew]

Pretty impressive that these have seemingly overnight become a relatively common sight on UK roads. Certainly more so than the 370Z, GT86 etc.

Very solid UK figures sports car or not.

[E65Ross]

So they're clearly using the 4 cylinder engines as part of those figures (hence 4500 in the UK). By that definition....then a BMW 4 series is a sports car....and I doubt the Mustang is out-selling that.

[great_kahn]

knighty said:

My friend recently bought a V8 Mustang, metallic blue, and stunning to look at, after 4 months of ownership he is utterly in love with it........I took it out for a drive myself, and I can quite honestly say it most certainly IS a sports car!......after a 20 minute drive I was grinning from ear to ear, and I have driven some enough fast cars in my time, and its a lovely bit of kit, quite honestly I'm mystified why Ford have not sold a lot more, as the UK sales figures are pitiful.

UK sales figures pitiful?? Whole article was how successful it has been lol.

[Onehp]

kambites said:

I don't think I'm under- or over- estimating anything. As I said I don't think a definition including the 320d as a sports car is "wrong" because I don't think there's such a thing as write and wrong in this sort of discussion.

Not about right and wrong indeed, just about how we perceive the general public perception of cars. I value and understand that it does matter, whatever car nuts/nerds/engineers think. I also see that the latter and the general public (that use and view cars daily) live in somewhat parallel universes.

Now the same but as a 420d, that is one inbetween I suspect. Why else do people buy a less practical more expensive car on the same technical basis? Looks and in the hope it will be perceived as, indeed, a sportscar by more, perhaps? Don't think the majority is fooled but the appeal remains.

[killingjoker]

What about Kia's "Sportage"? I struggle to see where that is in any way a sports vehicle.

I remember Top Gear where quite sniffy about the new 'Stang and said it would not do well over here. I knew they were wrong and look forward to grabbing a V8 bargain in about 10 years time

[spikyone]

ash73 said:

I think you need to broaden your definition of sports car. For most people a sports car is any car designed with sporting pretensions. Why must it be under a certain weight? That makes no sense.

Pretty much every definition of a sports car that you will find, anywhere in the motoring press, will include the word light. Start making it heavier and it becomes a GT. What the heck are sporting pretensions? The Mustang has never been, and will never be, a sports car. It's a fast coupe, a GT, a pony car, a muscle car - whatever, but it is not a sports car. Sports cars are, at the very least, minimalist. And that usually results in them being lighter than average.

ash73 said:

The "small, light two seater" definition is about 40 years out of date and harks back to the likes of MGs and Sprites.

It goes back much further than that. Why is it out of date? Because you think that being a fast 2-door is sufficient to qualify as a sports car?

Onehp said:

spikyone said:

Those random people might have no interest in cars. So why is their answer more valid than the opinion of people who do have an interest in cars, as most of the posters here do?

Because when defining 'things', it very much depends on what 'all' people perceive, as that is the very basis on making language understandable. PH is, realise or not, subculture and cars are very much a mainstream phenomenon where most people have, if not deeply rooted interest, at least an opinion.

The definition existed long before those people weighed in. They likely see a car as an appliance rather than something to be enjoyed, and if they misinterpret what a sports car is, those of us who know what we're talking about should not need to change our definition. A koala's a marsupial, however many people might call it a bloody bear.

[kambites]

killingjoker said:

What about Kia's "Sportage"? I struggle to see where that is in any way a sports vehicle.

I guess that's the same "sports" as in "SUV". In theory it means it's designed to enable to you partake in sports, not that it is sporty in itself.

[J4CKO]

Jesus, you lot are channeling the spit of Alan Partridge today arent you,

"It’s like people who say Tannoy when they mean "public address system". Tannoy is a brand name."

Its a Mustang, its a car, everyone knows what it is and some may describe it as a "Sports Car", as is their prerogative, even if you think that means more an Austin Healey or Elise, doesnt really matter does it, Muscle Car, Coupe, GT or whatever, it doesn't need to fit into a neat description 100 percent, if someone has said Mustang, its all ready been identified,

I can just imagine some lovely young woman coming up when you are sat in one and going "Hey, nice Sports car",

Adopts Clarkson style Adenoidal voice,

"Sorry but I must correct you there"....

She leaves and meets a TT owner.

[Hol]

kambites said:

killingjoker said:

What about Kia's "Sportage"? I struggle to see where that is in any way a sports vehicle.

I guess that's the same "sports" as in "SUV". In theory it means it's designed to enable to you partake in sports, not that it is sporty in itself.

I've just bought a brand new full fat Sportage AWD for my wife to replace her SLK.

Ironically, she said she would quite like a Mustang and it was a contender until she fell out of love with RWD cars earlier this year in the snow.

[kambites]

J4CKO said:

I can just imagine some lovely young woman coming up when you are sat in one and going "Hey, nice Sports car",

Adopts Clarkson style Adenoidal voice,

"Sorry but I must correct you there"....

She leaves and meets a TT owner.

Whatever it is, it's good news for Ford when they seem to be struggling in other areas.

[anonymous-user]

V8 Convertible owner, not sure I'd class it as a sports car?

But I can understand why they are so popular, except for the fuel costs obviously.

[Onehp]

J4CKO said:

I can just imagine some lovely young woman coming up when you are sat in one and going "Hey, nice Sports car",

Adopts Clarkson style Adenoidal voice,

"Sorry but I must correct you there"....

She leaves and meets a TT owner.

Spot on

spikyone said:

The definition existed long before those people weighed in. They likely see a car as an appliance rather than something to be enjoyed, and if they misinterpret what a sports car is, those of us who know what we're talking about should not need to change our definition. A koala's a marsupial, however many people might call it a bloody bear.

I am the first to damn the high weights of most 'sporty' cars put to market today, but being an enthusiast, expert, professor, historian whatever does not mean you can 'decide' the definition of a technology out there, widely used and perceived by, well, billions of people. Whatever makes you understood when 'calling' an object for something, that is a definition that 'is'. Calling a Mustang for a sports car will make yourself understood to most people... in the world.

(or however that translates).

Biological species defined by the science of Biology, cars defined by, FIA? ... Still is a bear to most people

Edited by Onehp on Wednesday 24th May 13:43

[VladD]

J4CKO said:

I can just imagine some lovely young woman coming up when you are sat in one and going "Hey, nice Sports car",

Adopts Clarkson style Adenoidal voice,

"Sorry but I must correct you there"....

She leaves and meets a TT owner.

If she thinks a Mustang is a sports car then she deserves no better than an Audi owner

[MDMetal]

Problem is the UK mustang is a watered down version of the US one, no DLR's no sequential indicators, a fraction of the interior options. Shame, I'd rather import one and get what I wnated though!