Jaguar Land Rover
Discussion
ian in lancs said:
with foreign money, from more successful foreign companies.
Has someone run your dog over with a Jag or something?Anyway.
You only have to drive down the M54 to see how well JLR are doing in the UK.
Serious question, as I don't know the answer.
What -is- the biggest UK-owned and funded car manufacturer today?
ian in lancs said:
I was offered at job with Rover but turned it down for a defence company career. So, no, I don't work for a car company. However, I grew up in Solihull, a lot of friends went to various incarnation of Rover, my Father was an engineer at Land Rover and my Father in law finally worked in quality (sic) at Jaguar Browns Lane after starting a career with Morris at Longbridge. When Ford took over they were appalled at the JLR quality...
I had co Rovers / MGs for years with some exceptions they and their dealers were utter crap. Not one was fault free. When the supply dried up and I bought my own cars, I and countless others I work with, went German. They were simply a revelation and more than a generation better than anything the UK was producing.
Without the Defender and Range Rover JLR wouldn't exist today.
Cool story, but how is that relevant to anything JLR do today?I had co Rovers / MGs for years with some exceptions they and their dealers were utter crap. Not one was fault free. When the supply dried up and I bought my own cars, I and countless others I work with, went German. They were simply a revelation and more than a generation better than anything the UK was producing.
Without the Defender and Range Rover JLR wouldn't exist today.
Gojira said:
Serious question, as I don't know the answer.
What -is- the biggest UK-owned and funded car manufacturer today?
Uhhh... well you can rule out all the big ones. Lotus is out now. Aston seem to have Italian and American funding from what I can Google. McLaren is most owned by a group from Bahrain I think... Morgan? Caterham?What -is- the biggest UK-owned and funded car manufacturer today?
ian in lancs said:
with foreign money, from more successful foreign companies.
You seem to be almost bitter? There are reasons why manufacturing is strong in Germany and has been weak in UK. We / our governments have not supported it as there have been other areas where a quicker / bigger return on investment come. There is also a world of difference between the knowledge to make good products, and the knowledge and resource to run a successful business (in an unpopular sector with little interest from the state)
JLR are now in a great position for the first time in generations. They have an owner with resources and interest in growing them (two traits that didn't come together with any of the previous owners). It's a similar story with Volvo, a different take on the French governmental stake, not unlike the difficulties and bankruptcy protection the US OEMs have been through.
We should be celebrating that they survived the UK lack of interest in manufacturing and now are really achieving something. We should also celebrate that corporations like Tata see a company worth investing billions in, to see it grow.... They don't like to piss it away on bad companies with poor abilities you know.
Odd to be bitter about where they are today.
craigjm said:
I think the problem with Jaguar is that lots of people expect it to be wood and leather smoking jacket type stuff but those days are gone. The profits are not in Europe or US anymore they are in China and India and they are now building for those markets.
Although, as I have said, SUV's are the in thing at the moment, there are still plenty of cars sold that compete with what Jaguar sell. JLR seem to have the "premium" end of the SUV market to themselves. I know of 3 people personally with D4 commercials (a market they have closed the door on). The horsey clients at work have a selection of Land Rovers from new to ropey. We're tripping over new L405's 'round here. Both the bosses daughters have new Land Rovers, so does a colleague (which is his 4th LR).
In the "premium" car market we see roads full of BMW's, Audis and Mercs, which I am sure have lost a bit of ground to SUV's, but people still want them. Bought or leased new by aspirational types and end up with east Europeans, so it seems. So where are all the Jags? Why can they make very expensive SUV's with questionably reliability so popular, but can't, or at least don't seem to be able to sell many cars? Yes, the domestic market for cars isn't as big as China, but one might be forgiven for thinking they'd eat a little more into the market share for the German brands.
ian in lancs said:
Gojira said:
You only have to drive down the M54 to see how well JLR are doing in the UK
Really?UK new market share...
Jaguar - 2015 market share 0.91%; 2016 market share 1.28%
Land Rover - 2015 market share 2.53%; 2016 market share 2.97%
Audi, BMW and Merc each about 6%
If those are Audi, BM and Merc figures for 2016, and the 2015 figures were all about 4-5%, you might have a case,
But I'd be more than a bit surprised if any of them had increased their year on year sales figures by the 17% your LR figures suggest, let alone the 40% sales increase for the Jaguar figures.
Why hate you JLR?
Willy Nilly said:
In the "premium" car market we see roads full of BMW's, Audis and Mercs, which I am sure have lost a bit of ground to SUV's, but people still want them. Bought or leased new by aspirational types and end up with east Europeans, so it seems. So where are all the Jags? Why can they make very expensive SUV's with questionably reliability so popular, but can't, or at least don't seem to be able to sell many cars? Yes, the domestic market for cars isn't as big as China, but one might be forgiven for thinking they'd eat a little more into the market share for the German brands.
It's all about variants. The 4 series outsells the 3 series dramatically. The 1 series and A class are huge sellers for BMW and MB and the A3 for Audi. All sectors that JLR is not present in. They need a car under the XE and coupe and convertible versions of the XE and XF to even start to compete with the Germans in their most profitable non-SUV sectors. The F-type IMO was a mistake. It should have either been smaller and competed with the Cayman boxster etc or a four seat and compete with the GTs. Audi, BMW and Mercedes are struggling to achieve growth - hence the recent ridiculous proliferation of models.
Jaguar are doing better than they ever have - and seem to be on the right path; what was BMW's UK market share in the late 1970s, when all they offered was a single body style for 3, 5 and 7 series? Or Audi's in the late 1980s, when they just had the Coupé, 80 and 100?
Jaguar are doing better than they ever have - and seem to be on the right path; what was BMW's UK market share in the late 1970s, when all they offered was a single body style for 3, 5 and 7 series? Or Audi's in the late 1980s, when they just had the Coupé, 80 and 100?
ian in lancs said:
Gojira said:
You only have to drive down the M54 to see how well JLR are doing in the UK
Really?UK new market share...
Jaguar - 2015 market share 0.91%; 2016 market share 1.28%
Land Rover - 2015 market share 2.53%; 2016 market share 2.97%
Audi, BMW and Merc each about 6%
But what you are really pointing out is exclusivity, though for such tiny market share there seem to be millions of Evoques, they are everywhere.
Let's just suspend the whinging and special pleading for a moment, and consider the facts :
In round figures ....JLR sales in 2010 were 220,000. In 2016 they were 600,000
Jaguar sales in 2010 were 50,000. In 2016 they were 150,000
Land Rover/Range Rover sales were 170,000 in 2010. In 2016 they were 440,000.
The trouble with success stories like this is that there are few people around who dare to quote them. I dare ....
In round figures ....JLR sales in 2010 were 220,000. In 2016 they were 600,000
Jaguar sales in 2010 were 50,000. In 2016 they were 150,000
Land Rover/Range Rover sales were 170,000 in 2010. In 2016 they were 440,000.
The trouble with success stories like this is that there are few people around who dare to quote them. I dare ....
BlueHave said:
I parked across from a F-Pace today in maroon with stupid black wheels which just looked nothing of the £40k it cost.
The constant watering down of the Range Rover brand is also a mistake in my opinion. The Range Rover was always the top end prestige motor of the Land Rover brand. Now you can buy some ugly Evoque for £30k in white with orange accent stitching.
Not much of a business mistake building a vehicle which sells in large numbers to a ready market, is it? Perhaps you have some other business knowledge, though, do you? The constant watering down of the Range Rover brand is also a mistake in my opinion. The Range Rover was always the top end prestige motor of the Land Rover brand. Now you can buy some ugly Evoque for £30k in white with orange accent stitching.
Edited by BlueHave on Saturday 27th May 19:17
AAGR said:
Let's just suspend the whinging and special pleading for a moment, and consider the facts :
In round figures ....JLR sales in 2010 were 220,000. In 2016 they were 600,000
Jaguar sales in 2010 were 50,000. In 2016 they were 150,000
Land Rover/Range Rover sales were 170,000 in 2010. In 2016 they were 440,000.
The trouble with success stories like this is that there are few people around who dare to quote them. I dare ....
Exactly this. The impact on the British economy is massive with direct jobs and all of the indirect jobs that the spending of the company and the workers generate. If you don't like the products well go and buy something else and if you don't like the fact that it's "foreign owned" then wake up and realise you live in a globalised world. Without foreign ownership and investment in the UK the economy would be dead and you wouldn't be able to afford to buy your phone or laptop to moan about it on the internet. In round figures ....JLR sales in 2010 were 220,000. In 2016 they were 600,000
Jaguar sales in 2010 were 50,000. In 2016 they were 150,000
Land Rover/Range Rover sales were 170,000 in 2010. In 2016 they were 440,000.
The trouble with success stories like this is that there are few people around who dare to quote them. I dare ....
Willy Nilly said:
But the reliability of Land Rover does little to put people off so why does it matter with their cars?
Land Rover seem to have ever conceivable SUV sector covered, well, except proper work horses, yet Jaguar have a hand full of cars that sell in modest numbers. Where as the Germans have everything covered from dressed up Fabias to luxury salons that people are happy to pay a premium for.
Are you actually talking about Land Rover here? If you are then you are talking bLand Rover seem to have ever conceivable SUV sector covered, well, except proper work horses, yet Jaguar have a hand full of cars that sell in modest numbers. Where as the Germans have everything covered from dressed up Fabias to luxury salons that people are happy to pay a premium for.
ks and I will happily book you on an off road experience to prove the point.Actually, no I won't - as anyone who knows anything about LR products is aware that their off road ability (which I take is what you mean by work horse) is fundamental to their design and build.
Even the "soft road" stuff (Evoque for example) will go further than most people think. The big stuff will go MUCH further than a Defender would ever have gone, and blow cold air up your arse as it does so, which you may need considering the amount of hot air being blown about by some on this thread.
ian in lancs said:
Gojira said:
You only have to drive down the M54 to see how well JLR are doing in the UK
Really?UK new market share...
Jaguar - 2015 market share 0.91%; 2016 market share 1.28%
Land Rover - 2015 market share 2.53%; 2016 market share 2.97%
Audi, BMW and Merc each about 6%
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff