Is it time to ban overtaking?
Discussion
Trabi601 said:
Not sure this is the forum for you!
I'm sick to death of people following sheep-like a car doing 40mph (or less) on NSL roads. I travel up to 40k business miles per year, with perhaps a third of them on A and B roads.
Using your calculations, on an average day, I could lose 40 minutes if I were to be stuck behind cars at 40mph when I could easily do 60.
The problem with overtaking is that other drivers actively obstruct it by following too closely to the car in front and getting shouty and sweary if you try to 'force' yourself into the queue.
I'm sick to death of people following sheep-like a car doing 40mph (or less) on NSL roads. I travel up to 40k business miles per year, with perhaps a third of them on A and B roads.
Using your calculations, on an average day, I could lose 40 minutes if I were to be stuck behind cars at 40mph when I could easily do 60.
The problem with overtaking is that other drivers actively obstruct it by following too closely to the car in front and getting shouty and sweary if you try to 'force' yourself into the queue.
f
king hell.You have missed out a smiley on that one.
M4cruiser said:
With our UK roads getting busier all the time
I live in Cornwall - roads aren't busy, and my V8 makes overtakes quick and safe when combined with appropriate observation and planning. Overtakes aren't necessarily just to save time, but because it's fun skill when done correctly, and lets me enjoy the lanes rather than being stuck behind a camper.OP, you need to get out into the rest of the country every now and again to restore your interest in cars/ driving which I assume attracted you to Pistonheads in the first place. There are still plenty of lovely empty roads out here away from the overcrowded centre. plenty of overtaking opportunities around here.
Solid lines already exists and are somewhat more granular in nature than a blanket ban, so no.
So many people seem to zone out and do 40mph everywhere, tailgate, think their accelerator pedal is made of egg shells and have no regard for making good progress (or joining motorways at a safe speed but that's another thing entirely) that to entirely remove the ability to overtake them would be an affront to reasonableness.
So many people seem to zone out and do 40mph everywhere, tailgate, think their accelerator pedal is made of egg shells and have no regard for making good progress (or joining motorways at a safe speed but that's another thing entirely) that to entirely remove the ability to overtake them would be an affront to reasonableness.
Tell you what, come and live up my neck of the woods and see what happens if you 'banned' overtaking. I live in an area riddled with pensioners and I swear to god one of these days I'm going to lose my st with the next dessicated coffin-dodger that pulls out in front of me, doesn't notice the set of 11's I put on the road to prevent imminent doom and then creeps along doing 20 in a 60 limit. If you think I'm joking, I'm not. It's actually a serious issue round here.
The day we ban overtaking should be the same day a statutory minimum limit is applied on roads, eg no car should do less than 10% below the limit in fair weather, 20% in rain and 50% in ice and snow. That way at least we don't need to overtake as everyone is doing a decent, safe speed.
Otherwise I'l nudge your offside tail quarter and dump you in a ditch.
Seriously, it's a weird paradox; young drivers are most likely to speed (I did) and yet those aged 80 and over creep along at a snails pace. The paradox is it should be the other way around, 80 year olds should be pedal to the metal as lets face it, at that age every second counts...
t with the next dessicated coffin-dodger that pulls out in front of me, doesn't notice the set of 11's I put on the road to prevent imminent doom and then creeps along doing 20 in a 60 limit. If you think I'm joking, I'm not. It's actually a serious issue round here.The day we ban overtaking should be the same day a statutory minimum limit is applied on roads, eg no car should do less than 10% below the limit in fair weather, 20% in rain and 50% in ice and snow. That way at least we don't need to overtake as everyone is doing a decent, safe speed.
Otherwise I'l nudge your offside tail quarter and dump you in a ditch.
Seriously, it's a weird paradox; young drivers are most likely to speed (I did) and yet those aged 80 and over creep along at a snails pace. The paradox is it should be the other way around, 80 year olds should be pedal to the metal as lets face it, at that age every second counts...
M4cruiser said:
With our UK roads getting busier all the time, it's time to start the process to ban overtaking.... and I mean on roads where there is only 1 lane in your direction. Multiple lane roads would not need the ban. Overtaking a non-motor vehicle (like a pedal cycle) would also be an exception to the ban.
Maybe four or five decades ago things were very different: there was much less traffic; there were far fewer fixed hazards (e.g. junctions, entrances etc); there were plenty of opportunities for a safe overtake; there was a wide difference in cars' power and capabilities, meaning that the less powerful cars took ages to get up to a decent speed; speed limits were generally higher, for longer stretches (and some will remember “no limit” A-roads, and later it was 70mph on A-roads, before it became 60).
Things have changed. There is much more traffic. There are frequent fixed hazards. Speed limits are lower, and even basic cars can now happily get up to a decent cruising speed near the limit (where safe). There are far fewer opportunities for safe overtakes, so few in fact that the benefit from executing the manoeuvre (or even allowing it) is minimal. Have you ever worked out how much time you save by doing 60mph instead of say 40mph? It's not a lot. Even if you manage to maintain a full 60 for 5 miles continuously, that's only two-and-a-half minutes off your journey. Doing 60 instead of 50 saves only 1 minute in 5 miles. And for these examples you would need to see a clear 500 yards ahead of you to start the overtake of the car doing 40 (see diagram) without compromising safety in the areas of the inter-car gap or speed limit, even in dry weather. If you're behind a car doing 50 then you need to see a clear 1200 yards ahead. By “clear” I mean no oncoming traffic, no junctions, no “SLOW” in the road, etc. That's almost impossible these days.
The latest IAM magazine has an article on overtaking, and cautions as follows:-
“It's often difficult to overtake without breaking the law.... Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it of any benefit? If the answer to any of those is 'no' then don't do it.... If you're in a 60mph speed limit, behind a car doing 55mph, how will you create a sufficient speed differential to overtake safely? But do you really need to? Is the risk worth it?”
It's obvious to most of us that many drivers do not possess the skills to conduct a safe overtake, yet they still try. I suggest it's not worth letting them try; and given those “safe/legal/benefit” considerations, it's not worth letting anyone try. If you find yourself closing up on a slower car, you need to ask why it's going slowly – there may be a valid reason for it, yet many drivers seem to just assume it's a slow-coach driver. Even if it is – what really is the problem in just staying behind it? You won't lose that much time – it may seem like you will, but try computing some figures. Have a bit more patience.
Well, there's the idea, and yes I'm expecting one or two dissenters, even on PH.
(!) But think of this: it will happen. Four or five decades ago it was unthinkable that we would have an “indoor-non-smoking” rule across the whole country; if the government had imposed it back then, it would have been ignored, and impossible to enforce. But opinion changed. It will change with “no-overtaking” too.
Don't be absurd.Maybe four or five decades ago things were very different: there was much less traffic; there were far fewer fixed hazards (e.g. junctions, entrances etc); there were plenty of opportunities for a safe overtake; there was a wide difference in cars' power and capabilities, meaning that the less powerful cars took ages to get up to a decent speed; speed limits were generally higher, for longer stretches (and some will remember “no limit” A-roads, and later it was 70mph on A-roads, before it became 60).
Things have changed. There is much more traffic. There are frequent fixed hazards. Speed limits are lower, and even basic cars can now happily get up to a decent cruising speed near the limit (where safe). There are far fewer opportunities for safe overtakes, so few in fact that the benefit from executing the manoeuvre (or even allowing it) is minimal. Have you ever worked out how much time you save by doing 60mph instead of say 40mph? It's not a lot. Even if you manage to maintain a full 60 for 5 miles continuously, that's only two-and-a-half minutes off your journey. Doing 60 instead of 50 saves only 1 minute in 5 miles. And for these examples you would need to see a clear 500 yards ahead of you to start the overtake of the car doing 40 (see diagram) without compromising safety in the areas of the inter-car gap or speed limit, even in dry weather. If you're behind a car doing 50 then you need to see a clear 1200 yards ahead. By “clear” I mean no oncoming traffic, no junctions, no “SLOW” in the road, etc. That's almost impossible these days.
The latest IAM magazine has an article on overtaking, and cautions as follows:-
“It's often difficult to overtake without breaking the law.... Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it of any benefit? If the answer to any of those is 'no' then don't do it.... If you're in a 60mph speed limit, behind a car doing 55mph, how will you create a sufficient speed differential to overtake safely? But do you really need to? Is the risk worth it?”
It's obvious to most of us that many drivers do not possess the skills to conduct a safe overtake, yet they still try. I suggest it's not worth letting them try; and given those “safe/legal/benefit” considerations, it's not worth letting anyone try. If you find yourself closing up on a slower car, you need to ask why it's going slowly – there may be a valid reason for it, yet many drivers seem to just assume it's a slow-coach driver. Even if it is – what really is the problem in just staying behind it? You won't lose that much time – it may seem like you will, but try computing some figures. Have a bit more patience.
Well, there's the idea, and yes I'm expecting one or two dissenters, even on PH.
(!) But think of this: it will happen. Four or five decades ago it was unthinkable that we would have an “indoor-non-smoking” rule across the whole country; if the government had imposed it back then, it would have been ignored, and impossible to enforce. But opinion changed. It will change with “no-overtaking” too.Goodbye.
Motor bike. It's the answer for the single occupant commuters in congested areas. I used to commute by VX220 and overtake a lot, I got all sorts of aggressive hand signals for overtaking. For the last 7 years I've been on bikes, Hornet, CBR1000RR and last 3 years a CBR600F, no one bats an eye lid, I must overtake 100 cars a day and no one gives a st, mostly because they have not seen you until you are already past (except once I overtook a train of 50mph cars in a NSL held up bug the fuzz - fuzz took exception and told me off; but that's all. Didn't book me). In my day to day passing of hundreds of cars I see a lot of frustrated drivers itching to pass usually 5 or 6 cars back, but can't because the morons who are behind maybe a tractor just go nose to bumper and follow blindly. I wish faster cars and abolishment of speed limits when overtaking, it would give them a chance. Really we just need more training how to get the most power out of cars and overtaking training. Sadly these day kids are taught economical motoring and the thought of revs and full throttle is out. Sad days in the congested south, but hey maybe it'll get more people riding bikes (also sadly many of those only do it on dry sunny days so then hold up other bikes as they think they re the fastest on the roads so never look in mirrors to see they are holding someone else up).
fk it track day rules are the way forward, LOOK IN MIRRORS, faster vechicle catches you means they are faster, ease off indicate left and let them pass, job done. Safer and faster for everyone.
t, mostly because they have not seen you until you are already past (except once I overtook a train of 50mph cars in a NSL held up bug the fuzz - fuzz took exception and told me off; but that's all. Didn't book me). In my day to day passing of hundreds of cars I see a lot of frustrated drivers itching to pass usually 5 or 6 cars back, but can't because the morons who are behind maybe a tractor just go nose to bumper and follow blindly. I wish faster cars and abolishment of speed limits when overtaking, it would give them a chance. Really we just need more training how to get the most power out of cars and overtaking training. Sadly these day kids are taught economical motoring and the thought of revs and full throttle is out. Sad days in the congested south, but hey maybe it'll get more people riding bikes (also sadly many of those only do it on dry sunny days so then hold up other bikes as they think they re the fastest on the roads so never look in mirrors to see they are holding someone else up). f
k it track day rules are the way forward, LOOK IN MIRRORS, faster vechicle catches you means they are faster, ease off indicate left and let them pass, job done. Safer and faster for everyone.cb1965 said:
I think overtaking should be banned for people who own cars with less than 300bhp. For the rest of us we should be allowed to do whatever we like 
I've pulled off quite a few overtakes (including 1 double) in my 60 bhp Citigo. Don't condemn me to the road behind 40 mph hogs!angels95 said:
M4cruiser said:
Have you ever worked out how much time you save by doing 60mph instead of say 40mph? It's not a lot.
Given that 60mph is one-and-a-half times quicker than 40mph, I would argue that it is.I came home from Cheshire last week, just over 200 miles. So at 40mph it would have taken 5 hours. But I averaged about 60mph so was home in just over 3 hours.
No way I would have wanted to spend at least another hour and a half doing that! Maybe the OP doesn't ever go far (hopefully, as he would cause some queues)!
overtaking is a lost art.
looking at how some people drive i guess that its no longer tought by driving instructors.
also lots of people dont know how to be overtaken.
and if you dont want to overtake thats fine.
but leave a space so the overtaking people can pass you then pass the next drone and not have to pass a train of bumper suckers.
however as a motorcyclist you do what you want, if you take 8 seconds to pass something, ill treat you as a stationary object.
looking at how some people drive i guess that its no longer tought by driving instructors.
also lots of people dont know how to be overtaken.
and if you dont want to overtake thats fine.
but leave a space so the overtaking people can pass you then pass the next drone and not have to pass a train of bumper suckers.
however as a motorcyclist you do what you want, if you take 8 seconds to pass something, ill treat you as a stationary object.
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