Is it time to ban overtaking?
Discussion
Winky151 said:
Not all of us IAM members are driving Miss Daisy candidates pootling about in shopping trolleys (quite the opposite). I passed my advanced test 29 years ago & was taught on my course by ex-police pursuit drivers who instructed us to push on & said that on our test if we didn't take an overtake opportunity it would be a fail. On twisty country roads, if we could see through the bend we were told to straight line it wherever possible (still do it now). I've not read anything on here to agree with the OP about.
Yup, we were taught NSL meant No Sodding Limit. If you didn't make adequate progress you failed...WinstonWolf said:
Winky151 said:
Not all of us IAM members are driving Miss Daisy candidates pootling about in shopping trolleys (quite the opposite). I passed my advanced test 29 years ago & was taught on my course by ex-police pursuit drivers who instructed us to push on & said that on our test if we didn't take an overtake opportunity it would be a fail. On twisty country roads, if we could see through the bend we were told to straight line it wherever possible (still do it now). I've not read anything on here to agree with the OP about.
Yup, we were taught NSL meant No Sodding Limit. If you didn't make adequate progress you failed...Of course driver ability will also have a bearing on this, but, like not everyone is competent enough to the be a brain surgeon/fighter pilot etc etc. A standard driver must at least have a minimum level of ability and competency, which is consistent with the majority (85th Percentile?) of those using the roads around them?
The posted limits are already set low, (some of them introduced when many cars had rod operated brakes, and could barely even achieve a posted limit) to allow the widest spectrum of drivers to continue to use the roads with a `reasonable' expectation of safety.
Buying a car, and then crawling along at well below the posted limits, when conditions are good, is the equivalent of buying an electric cooker, and then lighting a log fire on top of it to do the cooking.
If depending on conditions, people generally tried to drive at as near to the posted limit as possible, there generally would not even be the need for other drivers to have to overtake. Fortunately this is not so much a problem on dual carriageways and motorways.
If the speed limits were half sensible in 2017 then:
1) there could be a lot less overtaking (and hence on average, safer roads) because people would be less frustrated
2) People would be less brainwashed into thinking that breaking them is acceptable in all cases (we now routinely speed. Everyone does, all the time, hence, people now do 40 in a 30 without the slightest bit of thought, because exceeding the limit has become normal........) Hence were a limit is applied because it actually matters, people would be more likely to heed the signs and slow down.
1) there could be a lot less overtaking (and hence on average, safer roads) because people would be less frustrated
2) People would be less brainwashed into thinking that breaking them is acceptable in all cases (we now routinely speed. Everyone does, all the time, hence, people now do 40 in a 30 without the slightest bit of thought, because exceeding the limit has become normal........) Hence were a limit is applied because it actually matters, people would be more likely to heed the signs and slow down.
M4cruiser said:
Look guys, these forums are for expressing opinions... You don't have to agree with mine, but you won't persuade me to yours by hurling abuse. Make your arguments in a logical manner (as some have) and you might just convince me.
By and large I'm not changing my opinion except in one area: I am persuaded by those from more remote areas, where the density of traffic and other hazards (including junctions etc) is much less, so the overtaking risk is less, and the benefits are greater. That tips the balance. But round here? No way. Most of my enforced driving is in Berkshire, Surrey, Hampshire and Buckinghamshire, where my calculations stand up.
There is no way that blue Audi was going to make any significant headway given that the road goes into a built up area in another mile or so, with a 30 limit, a give way and a set of traffic lights. That's whether I'd caught him up or not. And to make that small gain he exceeded the limit by 50% (which someone called "Slightly" !! ) across what appears to be a farm crossing and heading for a double bend with a "reduce speed now" and a "SLOW" in the road. That's the point I'm making, it's risk versus benefit.
This, this is what makes the majority on here different from you. You are (and rightly so) pointing out that the blue Audi did not get to that junction any quicker than you did. That is correct.By and large I'm not changing my opinion except in one area: I am persuaded by those from more remote areas, where the density of traffic and other hazards (including junctions etc) is much less, so the overtaking risk is less, and the benefits are greater. That tips the balance. But round here? No way. Most of my enforced driving is in Berkshire, Surrey, Hampshire and Buckinghamshire, where my calculations stand up.
There is no way that blue Audi was going to make any significant headway given that the road goes into a built up area in another mile or so, with a 30 limit, a give way and a set of traffic lights. That's whether I'd caught him up or not. And to make that small gain he exceeded the limit by 50% (which someone called "Slightly" !! ) across what appears to be a farm crossing and heading for a double bend with a "reduce speed now" and a "SLOW" in the road. That's the point I'm making, it's risk versus benefit.
However, can you possibly comprehend that the Audi driver had more fun getting there. He enjoyed the road more than being stuck behind a dangerous driver in an Avensis (and you have proved yourself dangerous in the Yaris video, it is dangerous to stop at a clear roundabout).
It is fine for you to pootle along at a much lower speed, that is your choice. However, we all have a choice, and the majority will overtake you for being slow. Granted we may not arrive at the destination much quicker. But we may not get stuck behind you attempting to park your Avensis and delay us further. We may think what happens if this slow driver meets another slower driver down the road, he will not have the confidence to overtake, and that is fine if you are not a confident driver, but it is possibly safer for us to overtake in two parts.
I really cannot get my head round what is going on in your life, or if there is so little going on in your life, that people overtaking you for driving slower than the NCL becomes such an issue. I am not sure if I feel sorry for you or am envious of your life.
joestifff said:
This, this is what makes the majority on here different from you. You are (and rightly so) pointing out that the blue Audi did not get to that junction any quicker than you did. That is correct.
Theres a run of traffic lights along a section of dual 40mph carriage way to a motor way near me. If you over take/get over taken along it 50% of the time the overtakee catches up with the overtaker by the final set. The other 50% of the time overtakerl be in the distance as the overtakee looks at a red light. Generally if the overtaker is speeding along the 40mph section, they'll do 40mph through the NSL single carriage way part.joestifff said:
M4cruiser said:
Look guys, these forums are for expressing opinions... You don't have to agree with mine, but you won't persuade me to yours by hurling abuse. Make your arguments in a logical manner (as some have) and you might just convince me.
By and large I'm not changing my opinion except in one area: I am persuaded by those from more remote areas, where the density of traffic and other hazards (including junctions etc) is much less, so the overtaking risk is less, and the benefits are greater. That tips the balance. But round here? No way. Most of my enforced driving is in Berkshire, Surrey, Hampshire and Buckinghamshire, where my calculations stand up.
There is no way that blue Audi was going to make any significant headway given that the road goes into a built up area in another mile or so, with a 30 limit, a give way and a set of traffic lights. That's whether I'd caught him up or not. And to make that small gain he exceeded the limit by 50% (which someone called "Slightly" !! ) across what appears to be a farm crossing and heading for a double bend with a "reduce speed now" and a "SLOW" in the road. That's the point I'm making, it's risk versus benefit.
This, this is what makes the majority on here different from you. You are (and rightly so) pointing out that the blue Audi did not get to that junction any quicker than you did. That is correct.By and large I'm not changing my opinion except in one area: I am persuaded by those from more remote areas, where the density of traffic and other hazards (including junctions etc) is much less, so the overtaking risk is less, and the benefits are greater. That tips the balance. But round here? No way. Most of my enforced driving is in Berkshire, Surrey, Hampshire and Buckinghamshire, where my calculations stand up.
There is no way that blue Audi was going to make any significant headway given that the road goes into a built up area in another mile or so, with a 30 limit, a give way and a set of traffic lights. That's whether I'd caught him up or not. And to make that small gain he exceeded the limit by 50% (which someone called "Slightly" !! ) across what appears to be a farm crossing and heading for a double bend with a "reduce speed now" and a "SLOW" in the road. That's the point I'm making, it's risk versus benefit.
However, can you possibly comprehend that the Audi driver had more fun getting there. He enjoyed the road more than being stuck behind a dangerous driver in an Avensis (and you have proved yourself dangerous in the Yaris video, it is dangerous to stop at a clear roundabout).
It is fine for you to pootle along at a much lower speed, that is your choice. However, we all have a choice, and the majority will overtake you for being slow. Granted we may not arrive at the destination much quicker. But we may not get stuck behind you attempting to park your Avensis and delay us further. We may think what happens if this slow driver meets another slower driver down the road, he will not have the confidence to overtake, and that is fine if you are not a confident driver, but it is possibly safer for us to overtake in two parts.
I really cannot get my head round what is going on in your life, or if there is so little going on in your life, that people overtaking you for driving slower than the NCL becomes such an issue. I am not sure if I feel sorry for you or am envious of your life.
Why should we all have to sink to the lowest common denominator in life (that's you in this instance Mr M4 cruiser)?
Edited by DeltaTango on Friday 21st July 13:56
LaDS3arri said:
M4cruiser said:
Ok then, here's one. Let's see how many people think this Yaris's overtake was safe and legal. (It was illegal and unsafe.) 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QseMDIMoQkE
The visibility to the right is poor, and there was something coming, and I think it slowed when it saw the Yaris.
Haha some nuns even had enough of being stuck behind you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QseMDIMoQkE
The visibility to the right is poor, and there was something coming, and I think it slowed when it saw the Yaris.
Edited by M4cruiser on Wednesday 19th July 19:20
Edited by M4cruiser on Wednesday 19th July 19:57
M4cruiser said:
Ok then, here's one. Let's see how many people think this Yaris's overtake was safe and legal. (It was illegal and unsafe.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QseMDIMoQkE
The visibility to the right is poor, and there was something coming, and I think it slowed when it saw the Yaris.
Please read the first post herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QseMDIMoQkE
The visibility to the right is poor, and there was something coming, and I think it slowed when it saw the Yaris.
Edited by M4cruiser on Wednesday 19th July 19:20
Edited by M4cruiser on Wednesday 19th July 19:57
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=15...
Dark85 said:
+1Indecision != Caution
M4cruiser said:
Look guys, these forums are for expressing opinions... You don't have to agree with mine, but you won't persuade me to yours by hurling abuse. Make your arguments in a logical manner (as some have) and you might just convince me.
By and large I'm not changing my opinion except in one area: I am persuaded by those from more remote areas, where the density of traffic and other hazards (including junctions etc) is much less, so the overtaking risk is less, and the benefits are greater. That tips the balance. But round here? No way. Most of my enforced driving is in Berkshire, Surrey, Hampshire and Buckinghamshire, where my calculations stand up.
There is no way that blue Audi was going to make any significant headway given that the road goes into a built up area in another mile or so, with a 30 limit, a give way and a set of traffic lights. That's whether I'd caught him up or not. And to make that small gain he exceeded the limit by 50% (which someone called "Slightly" !! ) across what appears to be a farm crossing and heading for a double bend with a "reduce speed now" and a "SLOW" in the road. That's the point I'm making, it's risk versus benefit.
Well, at least you're partway open to the possibility that not everybody's experience is the same as yours which is somewhat rare.By and large I'm not changing my opinion except in one area: I am persuaded by those from more remote areas, where the density of traffic and other hazards (including junctions etc) is much less, so the overtaking risk is less, and the benefits are greater. That tips the balance. But round here? No way. Most of my enforced driving is in Berkshire, Surrey, Hampshire and Buckinghamshire, where my calculations stand up.
There is no way that blue Audi was going to make any significant headway given that the road goes into a built up area in another mile or so, with a 30 limit, a give way and a set of traffic lights. That's whether I'd caught him up or not. And to make that small gain he exceeded the limit by 50% (which someone called "Slightly" !! ) across what appears to be a farm crossing and heading for a double bend with a "reduce speed now" and a "SLOW" in the road. That's the point I'm making, it's risk versus benefit.
The thing is, the 'benefit' part of the equation is not for you to determine. I regularly overtake people who must tut about not getting there any quicker when they pull up behind me at the next set of lights. Well, I did, I got there before you and if your driving is such (slow) that I feel the need to overtake then that's all the benefit I need. These days, I chide myself if I don't take an overtaking opportunity because sod's law says round the next bend is someone who's going to be at least as slow as the dawdler immediately in front of me and together they'll be exponentially more difficult to pass once the one between us has latched onto their rear bumper.
It's the same as MLMs. Move over to the left because you can and because you should, not because allowing me to pass meets your arbitrary benefit threshold. When I get where I'm going, if I haven't wished ill upon you then it was totally worth it for both of us. Otherwise, what happens is the first car who's only holding me up a bit has someone pull out in front of them who's only going to hold them up a bit and so on and so on until I want to kill again.
Cheers, Jim
Pan Pan Pan said:
"If depending on conditions, people generally tried to drive at as near to the posted limit as possible, there generally would not even be the need for other drivers to have to overtake. Fortunately this is not so much a problem on dual carriageways and motorways. "
Yes, well said, and I do drive close to the posted limit on single carriageways (including in the Audi video) but usually get tailgated and overtaken. I understand that cars like the big Audi will have much greater acceleration than my Jap slushmatic, but I can, and do, get to 40mph probably only a couple of seconds later than he can.I'm also more aware of potential hazards. Not claiming my driving is perfect, but when it says "SLOW" in the road, and "REDUCE SPEED NOW" on a red sign, then I take that to mean that the posted limit is too high for the hazardous bits. Yet if I slow to 35 in a 40 for these hazards then the driver behind behaves very oddly - coming even closer when there's a sign hinting that I might have to brake even more!
However, that's not really the point of the original post. I'm pointing out how long you'd need to maintain say 60 continuously over 40 continuously to make any significant headway. The figures were at the start, and my guess is that most drivers really haven't thought about it. They see someone in front of them and want to get past. That's as far as their thinking goes.
Some of my thoughts have come from a trip to USA where (in the areas I went to) on single carriageway roads they have a lot more "double white line" thus preventing overtaking. USA drivers seem much more patient. A road near Boston, similar to the UK one in the Audi video, had double white lines even on the straight bits like where the Audi overtook. And the limit was 40.
Jesus Titty Christ, you still don't get it, do you?
If you want to drive slowly, there's not a lot the rest of us can do about it.
But for the love of God, why on Earth do you think that entitles you to think we should all be banned from overtaking you?
That would give you sole right to determine the speed that everyone else behind you gets to drive at.
Which apart from being rather unfair, judging by the videos you have posted, doesn't seem like a right you have even vaguely earned.
If you want to drive slowly, there's not a lot the rest of us can do about it.
But for the love of God, why on Earth do you think that entitles you to think we should all be banned from overtaking you?
That would give you sole right to determine the speed that everyone else behind you gets to drive at.
Which apart from being rather unfair, judging by the videos you have posted, doesn't seem like a right you have even vaguely earned.
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