RE: New TVR for Goodwood!
Discussion
PhantomPH said:
I hope you are wrong about this. toy or no toy, I want the thing to work and be well screwed together. I would imagine in this day and age people are even less tolerant to unreliability than they ever were. The pool of potential TVR owners is comparatively small...the subset of those who will accept a s
tty build quality is even smaller still. I really don't want to see a new company die on it's arse within a couple of years simply because things are not screwed together well. Haven't Pagain/'Segg/etc. proven that low volume can also mean quality product? (Ignore expensive components resulting in an expensive car - you can make a gear linkage out of unobtanium and still balls up actually bolting the thing in)
I do think people are judging new TVR by the standards of the old one. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt until such time as I see a million reviews saying the radio was from Halfords and the bluetooth didn't work and the doors rattled...
I think it will be in a different league. tty build quality is even smaller still. I really don't want to see a new company die on it's arse within a couple of years simply because things are not screwed together well. Haven't Pagain/'Segg/etc. proven that low volume can also mean quality product? (Ignore expensive components resulting in an expensive car - you can make a gear linkage out of unobtanium and still balls up actually bolting the thing in)I do think people are judging new TVR by the standards of the old one. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt until such time as I see a million reviews saying the radio was from Halfords and the bluetooth didn't work and the doors rattled...
The build process automatically rules out vast levels of human error, there won't be hundreds of low end workers not giving two hoots as they slap parts on the car, there won't be a dishonest management who'll source parts from anywhere that's cheap regardless of quality or let cars roll out that have been cobbled together with junk and I doubt they will link all the electrical components together with wholly unsuitable cabling.
It does seem pretty clear that the new management of TVR have a wholly different view of how to build a car and how to respect their customers than earlier iterations.
The vast majority of our issues with our cars are a result of negligent and downright dishonest management and middle management and too many incompetent and piss-taking floor workers.
The new cars are clearly going to have some silly teething issues as a function of being a ground up, low volume build but it is inconceivable that they will have the build quality of the past cars.
PhantomPH said:
kambites said:
I don't really see anything wrong with the radio being an off-the-shelf unit rather than a fully integrated one. It's a much cheaper way to do things and makes upgrading easier; the only downside is the aesthetics.
In fact for me (not that I can afford to buy one) I'd rather they made it a bit cheaper and provided it with wiring but no radio or speakers installed so I can just plug in my own.
What a strange point to focus on. In fact for me (not that I can afford to buy one) I'd rather they made it a bit cheaper and provided it with wiring but no radio or speakers installed so I can just plug in my own.
I think the car needs to be well built but I don't think it needs to have mainstream levels of fit, finish and "integration" because that's enormously expensive to engineer for a small-volume car for very little benefit.
kambites said:
PhantomPH said:
kambites said:
I don't really see anything wrong with the radio being an off-the-shelf unit rather than a fully integrated one. It's a much cheaper way to do things and makes upgrading easier; the only downside is the aesthetics.
In fact for me (not that I can afford to buy one) I'd rather they made it a bit cheaper and provided it with wiring but no radio or speakers installed so I can just plug in my own.
What a strange point to focus on. In fact for me (not that I can afford to buy one) I'd rather they made it a bit cheaper and provided it with wiring but no radio or speakers installed so I can just plug in my own.
I was using the other poster's examples in my example. He mentioned radio and blue tooth so I did too. I actually think nothing dates a car like the entertainment system...but that's a topic for another thread!PhantomPH said:
Big GT said:
It will not be built as well a 911 or Ferrari or F-Type, blue tooth will not work, bits will break, the radio will be from Halfords...
I hope you are wrong about this. toy or no toy, I want the thing to work and be well screwed together. I would imagine in this day and age people are even less tolerant to unreliability than they ever were. The pool of potential TVR owners is comparatively small...the subset of those who will accept a stty build quality is even smaller still. I really don't want to see a new company die on it's arse within a couple of years simply because things are not screwed together well. Haven't Pagain/'Segg/etc. proven that low volume can also mean quality product? (Ignore expensive components resulting in an expensive car - you can make a gear linkage out of unobtanium and still balls up actually bolting the thing in)I do think people are judging new TVR by the standards of the old one. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt until such time as I see a million reviews saying the radio was from Halfords and the bluetooth didn't work and the doors rattled...
The big question really will be how much they've been able to spend on testing things. Mainstream manufacturers will spend millions testing the trivial things - switch-gear, seats, interior trim clips, etc. but small-volume manufacturers generally can't afford to do that so they have three choices massively over-engineer things (which is expensive); buy mainstream components in (which people complain about) or guess and hope (which leads to problems).
The fact they are not attempting to build their own engine is, for me, a positive; hopefully using a tried and tested power plant which only needs minimal integration testing will allow them to focus on quality elsewhere.
The fact they are not attempting to build their own engine is, for me, a positive; hopefully using a tried and tested power plant which only needs minimal integration testing will allow them to focus on quality elsewhere.
Scooby P1 said:
rb26 said:
Hopefully they'll have some finance deals. Everything I've read about this car seems to be the perfect car to me.
Under 1300kg: check
Over 500hp: check
Front engined and RWD: check
6 speed manual: check
Na V8: check
Coupe: check
At the customer preview they said YES finance deals will be available. TVR becoming a modern motor company!Under 1300kg: check
Over 500hp: check
Front engined and RWD: check
6 speed manual: check
Na V8: check
Coupe: check
Under that cloth was a decent insight but not the finished article. So as a deposit LE holder, I'm just as excited about seeing the actual car at Goodwood.
Probably not a car for speculators, as already mentioned, so will be nice to see them being used.
Also, is this "TVR'y" to say, it might be nice to drive a TVR that you know will always get you home. As a TVR and Noble owner, it's often a bit dull constantly wondering what that 'noise' or 'smell' is and if that means you're about to call the AA!
https://youtu.be/iEfRr7GTHmY
PhantomPH said:
DonkeyApple said:
<lots of sensible things>
Sounds entirely reasonable and what I would expect from a company wanting to be taken seriously and not let the history of the name they are using, cloud the reputation they want to build.I can't imagine that it'll be built 'just like a Golf' as the mass produced people's sports cars such as Porsches are but I very much suspect it'll be on a par with the more bespoke, limited number sports cars like Astons and Ferraris.
HarryW said:
Being a tight git.... did I miss mention of free or discounted tickets to the Revival for deposit holders so we can view the car, more so important if we are expected to go firm on orders after this event?
As a deposit holder, you had an invite to the 'deposit holders only' launch, which was, from an exterior point of view, about 95% finished version of the real, working car that will be revealed at Goodwood. It was missing front and rear lights and the 'choice' of front grille and wheels, althugh there was represantation of what one wheel choice might be.So no, no free or discounted Goodwood Revival tickets, and they're nearly sold out !!
I don't think I'm breaking the NDA by saying what is already well known as regards the engine. It's a Cosworth-worked Ford (Coyote I think, definitely not Voodoo) 5.0L normally aspriated V8 producing 500bhp, and the cars expected kerbweight is 1250kg (400bhp/tonne). Fully wind tunnel tested and exceptionally aero, expected to be 200mph top speed.
They intend to have finance available - but obviously no PX for the Launch Edition cars as it is a factory-launch.
For me, stunning looks, supercar (not hypercar) performance - things have moved on a bit !! - and I imagine excellent build quality as this is a Gordon Murray designed and, from a chassis point of view, built car and he will not accept anything less.
Personally, I don't really care about Bluetooth, iDrive, millions of airbags (it will have to have some), seats from another manufacturer (so long as they're top quality and a) comfy on long runs and euro trips and b) hold me in on a track day...
But, it must not leak - that really annoys me - and it must have proper aircon that keeps me cool when its hot outside.
At £90k - fully loaded with whatever spec - and that will include a carbon iStream chassis by the way - it's a lot of money, but not really far off from what TVR always were is it ? How much is a supercar Fezza ? A supercar Mclaren ? A supercar Lambo ? Porsche 911T is a fair bit cheaper than those I suppose and the hypercar Fezzas, Mclarens, Lambos, Porsches are much much more expensive.
Pricewise, the F-type, Cayman/Boxster, even maybe the Evora might be the ones that make people think the TVR is expensive, but until we see what it actually delivers as a driving experience, we don't really know.
Most people bought TVR for that - the driving experience - balls out performance, loud, a bit lairy, in-yer-face, dramatic inside and out... it will be most of those I hope - lairy isn't really accepted anymore so it has to handle well !!
I hope it's a success - Mclaren are doing a good job, as are Jag and Aston Mrtin, but I think Britain needs a car company like TVR !!
They intend to have finance available - but obviously no PX for the Launch Edition cars as it is a factory-launch.
For me, stunning looks, supercar (not hypercar) performance - things have moved on a bit !! - and I imagine excellent build quality as this is a Gordon Murray designed and, from a chassis point of view, built car and he will not accept anything less.
Personally, I don't really care about Bluetooth, iDrive, millions of airbags (it will have to have some), seats from another manufacturer (so long as they're top quality and a) comfy on long runs and euro trips and b) hold me in on a track day...
But, it must not leak - that really annoys me - and it must have proper aircon that keeps me cool when its hot outside.
At £90k - fully loaded with whatever spec - and that will include a carbon iStream chassis by the way - it's a lot of money, but not really far off from what TVR always were is it ? How much is a supercar Fezza ? A supercar Mclaren ? A supercar Lambo ? Porsche 911T is a fair bit cheaper than those I suppose and the hypercar Fezzas, Mclarens, Lambos, Porsches are much much more expensive.
Pricewise, the F-type, Cayman/Boxster, even maybe the Evora might be the ones that make people think the TVR is expensive, but until we see what it actually delivers as a driving experience, we don't really know.
Most people bought TVR for that - the driving experience - balls out performance, loud, a bit lairy, in-yer-face, dramatic inside and out... it will be most of those I hope - lairy isn't really accepted anymore so it has to handle well !!
I hope it's a success - Mclaren are doing a good job, as are Jag and Aston Mrtin, but I think Britain needs a car company like TVR !!
Edited by RedSpike66 on Tuesday 13th June 23:07
RedSpike66 said:
HarryW said:
Being a tight git.... did I miss mention of free or discounted tickets to the Revival for deposit holders so we can view the car, more so important if we are expected to go firm on orders after this event?
As a deposit holder, you had an invite to the 'deposit holders only' launch, which was, from an exterior point of view, about 95% finished version of the real, working car that will be revealed at Goodwood. It was missing front and rear lights and the 'choice' of front grille and wheels, althugh there was represantation of what one wheel choice might be.So no, no free or discounted Goodwood Revival tickets, and they're nearly sold out !!
However, seeing a styling Buck, a lump of clay if you will, painted in a flat colour with no windows, trim, interior cockpit or lights is a tough call to make a final decision to commit to spending £90k. The reveal didn't really give a proper feel to the car for me by a long way, too conservative was the most common observation. There were plenty of comments fed back, not all positive and I presume there will have been changes in light of those, not forgetting the external body shape is going to be a composit hanging off the hard points and is relatively easy to change. I personally feel the need to see a finished car before I remotely consider committing, hence my comment about of help with tickets if we are expected to commit on the strength of this reveal event at the Revival...we might not even get to see it if those tickets are all already sold out.
That all said I will probably go to the revival regardless, firstly as it up the road and the misses fancies getting dressed up but secondly I want to see the car in some semblance of what it really looks like as a finished article.
RedSpike66 said:
I don't think I'm breaking the NDA by saying what is already well known as regards the engine. It's a Cosworth-worked Ford (Coyote I think, definitely not Voodoo) 5.0L normally aspriated V8 producing 500bhp, and the cars expected kerbweight is 1250kg (400bhp/tonne). Fully wind tunnel tested and exceptionally aero, expected to be 200mph top speed.
They intend to have finance available - but obviously no PX for the Launch Edition cars as it is a factory-launch.
For me, stunning looks, supercar (not hypercar) performance - things have moved on a bit !! - and I imagine excellent build quality as this is a Gordon Murray designed and, from a chassis point of view, built car and he will not accept anything less.
Personally, I don't really care about Bluetooth, iDrive, millions of airbags (it will have to have some), seats from another manufacturer (so long as they're top quality and a) comfy on long runs and euro trips and b) hold me in on a track day...
But, it must not leak - that really annoys me - and it must have proper aircon that keeps me cool when its hot outside.
At £90k - fully loaded with whatever spec - and that will include a carbon iStream chassis by the way - it's a lot of money, but not really far off from what TVR always were is it ? How much is a supercar Fezza ? A supercar Mclaren ? A supercar Lambo ? Porsche 911T is a fair bit cheaper than those I suppose and the hypercar Fezzas, Mclarens, Lambos, Porsches are much much more expensive.
Pricewise, the F-type, Cayman/Boxster, even maybe the Evora might be the ones that make people think the TVR is expensive, but until we see what it actually delivers as a driving experience, we don't really know.
Most people bought TVR for that - the driving experience - balls out performance, loud, a bit lairy, in-yer-face, dramatic inside and out... it will be most of those I hope - lairy isn't really accepted anymore so it has to handle well !!
I hope it's a success - Mclaren are doing a good job, as are Jag and Aston Mrtin, but I think Britain needs a car company like TVR !!
+1 doesn't do this comment justice. It will be a balancing act, but it will need to offer 'value' recognising this means different things to different people. But more than that TVRs were always about drama, and I can't wait to see GMs interpretation They intend to have finance available - but obviously no PX for the Launch Edition cars as it is a factory-launch.
For me, stunning looks, supercar (not hypercar) performance - things have moved on a bit !! - and I imagine excellent build quality as this is a Gordon Murray designed and, from a chassis point of view, built car and he will not accept anything less.
Personally, I don't really care about Bluetooth, iDrive, millions of airbags (it will have to have some), seats from another manufacturer (so long as they're top quality and a) comfy on long runs and euro trips and b) hold me in on a track day...
But, it must not leak - that really annoys me - and it must have proper aircon that keeps me cool when its hot outside.
At £90k - fully loaded with whatever spec - and that will include a carbon iStream chassis by the way - it's a lot of money, but not really far off from what TVR always were is it ? How much is a supercar Fezza ? A supercar Mclaren ? A supercar Lambo ? Porsche 911T is a fair bit cheaper than those I suppose and the hypercar Fezzas, Mclarens, Lambos, Porsches are much much more expensive.
Pricewise, the F-type, Cayman/Boxster, even maybe the Evora might be the ones that make people think the TVR is expensive, but until we see what it actually delivers as a driving experience, we don't really know.
Most people bought TVR for that - the driving experience - balls out performance, loud, a bit lairy, in-yer-face, dramatic inside and out... it will be most of those I hope - lairy isn't really accepted anymore so it has to handle well !!
I hope it's a success - Mclaren are doing a good job, as are Jag and Aston Mrtin, but I think Britain needs a car company like TVR !!
Edited by RedSpike66 on Tuesday 13th June 23:07
The new TVR has gotta be something special, to offset the bad old TVR brand perception that is (rightly or wrongly) held widely across the car world. A failed company from the dreary Midlands with plastic cars that breakdown a lot.
The new TVR will have to be available on easy finance, beautiful outside, modern inside, not leak, not breakdown, and handle like their Lotus or Porsche rivals. Anything short of that, and the knives will be out.
The new TVR will have to be available on easy finance, beautiful outside, modern inside, not leak, not breakdown, and handle like their Lotus or Porsche rivals. Anything short of that, and the knives will be out.
Yipper said:
The new TVR has gotta be something special, to offset the bad old TVR brand perception that is (rightly or wrongly) held widely across the car world. A failed company from the dreary Midlands with plastic cars that breakdown a lot.
The new TVR will have to be available on easy finance, beautiful outside, modern inside, not leak, not breakdown, and handle like their Lotus or Porsche rivals. Anything short of that, and the knives will be out.
Not sure people from Blackpool would call themselves Midlanders?The new TVR will have to be available on easy finance, beautiful outside, modern inside, not leak, not breakdown, and handle like their Lotus or Porsche rivals. Anything short of that, and the knives will be out.
janesmith1950 said:
Yipper said:
The new TVR has gotta be something special, to offset the bad old TVR brand perception that is (rightly or wrongly) held widely across the car world. A failed company from the dreary Midlands with plastic cars that breakdown a lot.
The new TVR will have to be available on easy finance, beautiful outside, modern inside, not leak, not breakdown, and handle like their Lotus or Porsche rivals. Anything short of that, and the knives will be out.
Not sure people from Blackpool would call themselves Midlanders? The new TVR will have to be available on easy finance, beautiful outside, modern inside, not leak, not breakdown, and handle like their Lotus or Porsche rivals. Anything short of that, and the knives will be out.
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