RE: McLaren 570GT vs Porsche 911 Turbo S vs Audi R8
Discussion
suffolk009 said:
May I ask, what were the running costs? One hears horror stories...
You may and not wishing to go into too much detail let me just say the next service that is due will cost the next owner approx £6500 which does include a Mc Warranty for another year. The real worry was any issues took ages to sort out as the dealers are few and far between so I didn't bother. Going in for the service I had done took from leaving my house to getting it back 1 month. This just builds up into a frustration that detracts from ownership. However I have to agree with Deep and say all three cars are excellent, I do miss a lot about the Mac and it was a huge personal achievement to have had the ability and fortune to own (look after it until the next person) one.... I'm fairly sure I will go back to the brand in the future but for now whilst the opportunity exists to get the TTs I am really looking forward to it. The Mac and all its beauty is consigned to the photo album.
Housey said:
The downside of the Audi is you have to deal with Audi dealers. I speak from sad and consistently disappointing experiences of their inability to service and maintain R8's properly or with any knowledge of the cars themselves.
Never a truer word said. It really was the most diabolical experience. The dealers and Audi UK themselves also don't really appreciate that they're dealing with people who have spend A LOT OF MONEY on one of their products, and we're not volume customers.I don't mind saying now as it's all well over, but I had to start litigation against my supplying dealer to try and get some of my money back. It worked, to a degree (one has to balance off an acceptable offer that's not quite perfect against a great one that would have taken a lot longer and incurred significantly more cost) but they tried all sorts to not pay out. In 13 months of R8 ownership, across 2 different cars, I probably had possession for 7 of those at best.
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 7th June 20:41
BishBosh said:
Palmball, I looked at the GTS as I didn't want to pay the huge premium on the Turbo S but after options I wasn't far off, so gone with the TTS along with the allure of the quick starts. The 650s just went into high ballistic speeds too quick. Perhaps the GTS sounds better and gives that feeling of speed more because of it? which is why the R8 is so popular I suppose. The sound from the Mac was disappointing and it seems the 991TTs isn't much better from what I hear.
Maybe we could meet up sometime compare the two side by side? GTS and TTS as that would be hugely interesting to me. Mine arrives around August...
You're not wrong on price....my GTS is coming it at only about £15k less than the equivalent spec Turbo S. Everything is an option on the GTS, whereas the Turbo S has a surprisingly impressive standard spec.Maybe we could meet up sometime compare the two side by side? GTS and TTS as that would be hugely interesting to me. Mine arrives around August...
I actually did order the Turbo S, then changed it after thinking about what I really liked when I had the C2S on test drive.
After having the R8 (plus other very fast cars before it) and the undoubtedly impressive performance, it was quite frustrating driving it at 5/10th's all the time....just revving it out in 2/3rd was just silly. It was too fast to really enjoy it, and too risky as I'm not exactly a reserved person when it comes to using the performance available. Lets just say I was very lucky!
I remember back in the day when I had my e92 M3. Not a spectacularly fast car, but one I could enjoy revving out frequently and things didn't happen so fast you needed to be superhuman to deal with it (at least on the public road). The C2S reminded me of that, and I really got mega enjoyment being able to really 'drive' it. After the R8, I'm just ready for something more sedate lol.
Will I get fed up of not having supercar performance? I'm not sure, I guess time will tell. But unlike back in the day before I'd experienced it, I now know that I really don't need it so I reckon I'll enjoy the wider experience of 'driving' again more, rather than feeling like I'm a passenger in space shuttle.
The Turbo S and C2S (I can't speak of the GTS I'm getting as I've not driven one yet) in my options are dynamically alike (when spec'd with similar chassis options). But it's the sheer thrust and performance that is the defining part of the Turbo S. In the C2S, the more 'normal' levels of performance allow the chassis capability to shine through more (which are there on the Turbo, but performance simply dominates it). I would say the 3.0 turbo does sound a lot better than the full fat 3.8 Turbo, as it retains more of the typical flat-6 howl and after the R8, getting the best sound that I could (without getting another R8) was also a defining factor.
GTS arrives at the end of the month and yeah, doesn't look like we're a million miles apart so we'll arrange something when you get yours.
Palmball said:
GTS arrives at the end of the month and yeah, doesn't look like we're a million miles apart so we'll arrange something when you get yours.
Look forward to it. I do have a memory of your trips to Afalterbach in your C63 with the cream leather and AMG "extras" I had one or two at the same time and also had a couple of trips over there too so your write ups were quite interesting..., at least they put out the flag for when you got there. We also nearly met at one of or two of the MBclub meets...Housey said:
The downside of the Audi is you have to deal with Audi dealers. I speak from sad and consistently disappointing experiences of their inability to service and maintain R8's properly or with any knowledge of the cars themselves.
I'm glad I steered away from the R8 because on a test drive it's pretty damn good. At least the Porsche OPCs are normally excellent (well Bristol is imho). The servicing cost isn't horrendous over five years ownership even for the turbo when compared to others at this level.I can understand people going for The C2S or GTS its sublime when I test drove on the road, it just the lure of a full fat turbo especially on track and the sound is a lot better than 997.1/2 but probably still needs a OEM exhaust such as europipe
Limpet said:
I'd want to pick the McLaren, but I suspect I would go for the Porsche. Such a brilliantly complete package, and perfectly useable every day.
For me, everyday usability was one of the last considerations, I was looking for a proper junior supercar to compliment the dull daily. Hence the McLaren got the nod.
Palmball said:
Housey said:
The downside of the Audi is you have to deal with Audi dealers. I speak from sad and consistently disappointing experiences of their inability to service and maintain R8's properly or with any knowledge of the cars themselves.
Never a truer word said. It really was the most diabolical experience. The dealers and Audi UK themselves also don't really appreciate that they're dealing with people who have spend A LOT OF MONEY on one of their products, and we're not volume customers.Palmball said:
I've had two of these R8's. Two of them because the first one was so bloody unreliable (and I mean properly breaking down needing recovery), and the dealers are so poor at sorting the problems. The first one was replaced after I rejected it 6 months into ownership. The second one I also don't own anymore, as that was even worse. Audi. Never again.
I'm about to get it's replacement, a 911 GTS, in a couple of weeks. I originally went to buy Turbo S but after test driving a Turbo and a Carrera S, I just preferred the Carrera. Odd decision I know, especially as it's a significant performance downgrade however, after the R8's admittedly ballistic performance, the Turbo S 'shock' (and it is a shock!) just wasn't shocking enough and I just found the Carrera more fun. Unfortunately a well spec'd GTS is no cheaper than the admittedly much more supercar-like R8.
Anyway, I'm always amazed by these R8 road tests that nobody pulls it up for the shockingly bouncy (and I mean REALLY bouncy, like it has zero damping) low speed ride, like you'd get going over speed bumps. It boings and bouncy itself uncontrollably and is a didicvi;ous design flaw. It's also a very noisy suspension, with regular clonks from the front end over bumps. Dan, are these traits not something you found, as they were certainly both 'features' of both my R8's?
That said, most other things said about the R8 are correct, although I must admit I never had issue with the steering. The engine is as spectacular (and fast....almost too fast for the road) as everyone suggests. The interior is a lovely design, very well built but the R8 platform does suffer an average driving position with pedals set too close and offset to the middle of the car thanks to the wheel argh intrusion. Storage and boot space is a joke! It's actually really comfy and refined too, so makes for a great daily driver (or would, if it didn't break all the time). The 4wd system is very good too, much better than the gen-1 R8 which would too-easily transition from over to undertseer and back again, whereas the gen-2 R8 is much more balanced and natural feeling. And whilst the damping IS very good, for some reason it never gave me confidence that, on a fast bumpy road, it wasn't always a fraction away from bottoming out, a sensation not helped by my memory of the uncontrolled low speed ride. Certainly not a problem in any 911 I've driven.
All in all though, the new R8 is still one of the very best cars I've driven, and my old SLS aside, the most special-feeling I've owned. But after the experience of owning an Audi, I'm relieved it's gone and won't be going back for a very long time!
I have a feeling that I owned your R8, if it was yellow and the plate was "NUT", then I did indeed. They mentioned you were fussy and rejected ownership of the first R8, and that you had issues with the second R8 also. I'm about to get it's replacement, a 911 GTS, in a couple of weeks. I originally went to buy Turbo S but after test driving a Turbo and a Carrera S, I just preferred the Carrera. Odd decision I know, especially as it's a significant performance downgrade however, after the R8's admittedly ballistic performance, the Turbo S 'shock' (and it is a shock!) just wasn't shocking enough and I just found the Carrera more fun. Unfortunately a well spec'd GTS is no cheaper than the admittedly much more supercar-like R8.
Anyway, I'm always amazed by these R8 road tests that nobody pulls it up for the shockingly bouncy (and I mean REALLY bouncy, like it has zero damping) low speed ride, like you'd get going over speed bumps. It boings and bouncy itself uncontrollably and is a didicvi;ous design flaw. It's also a very noisy suspension, with regular clonks from the front end over bumps. Dan, are these traits not something you found, as they were certainly both 'features' of both my R8's?
That said, most other things said about the R8 are correct, although I must admit I never had issue with the steering. The engine is as spectacular (and fast....almost too fast for the road) as everyone suggests. The interior is a lovely design, very well built but the R8 platform does suffer an average driving position with pedals set too close and offset to the middle of the car thanks to the wheel argh intrusion. Storage and boot space is a joke! It's actually really comfy and refined too, so makes for a great daily driver (or would, if it didn't break all the time). The 4wd system is very good too, much better than the gen-1 R8 which would too-easily transition from over to undertseer and back again, whereas the gen-2 R8 is much more balanced and natural feeling. And whilst the damping IS very good, for some reason it never gave me confidence that, on a fast bumpy road, it wasn't always a fraction away from bottoming out, a sensation not helped by my memory of the uncontrolled low speed ride. Certainly not a problem in any 911 I've driven.
All in all though, the new R8 is still one of the very best cars I've driven, and my old SLS aside, the most special-feeling I've owned. But after the experience of owning an Audi, I'm relieved it's gone and won't be going back for a very long time!
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 7th June 00:23
I noticed there was some seriously odd knocking/rattling from the car also, which I believe is what you complained of?
Just seen this following your post on the Porsche forum. Yes, that's my car. I can't actually believe they shared that info about me with a prospective customer. Idiots.
And yes they thought I was fussy. But that seems to be Audi for you....spend £150 large on their flagship car and expecting it not to repeatedly break down, not to have paint flaking off, not to have numerous electrical problems, not to have clonking front suspension, not to have creaky seats, the list could go on.....maybe I was expecting too much. I was in the Audi dealer every other week so I suspect I became tiresome yet, I've barely visited Porsche regarding my other cars in the same period. Odd. Yep, must be me.
Specifically on the suspension issue, both R8's 'clonked' over bumps at the front end. But the yellow one also sounded like it had mice under the dash such was the squeaking, which annoyingly would only happen after a 50+ mile drive. Neither issues were taken seriously by the dealer, let alone fixed.
As I said on the Porsche forum, you couldn't have kept it long if you've already got rid of it. I hope it bought you more joy than it did me but I suspect you're well shot of it.
Roll on another Porsche, something that in my experience will work and will be engineered and developed to a much higher standard. And better dealers, MUCH better dealers. Don't get me started on Audi dealers, who are clearly used to selling bucket loads of A3's and A4's but relatively clueless on the product they make real profit on.
And yes they thought I was fussy. But that seems to be Audi for you....spend £150 large on their flagship car and expecting it not to repeatedly break down, not to have paint flaking off, not to have numerous electrical problems, not to have clonking front suspension, not to have creaky seats, the list could go on.....maybe I was expecting too much. I was in the Audi dealer every other week so I suspect I became tiresome yet, I've barely visited Porsche regarding my other cars in the same period. Odd. Yep, must be me.
Specifically on the suspension issue, both R8's 'clonked' over bumps at the front end. But the yellow one also sounded like it had mice under the dash such was the squeaking, which annoyingly would only happen after a 50+ mile drive. Neither issues were taken seriously by the dealer, let alone fixed.
As I said on the Porsche forum, you couldn't have kept it long if you've already got rid of it. I hope it bought you more joy than it did me but I suspect you're well shot of it.
Roll on another Porsche, something that in my experience will work and will be engineered and developed to a much higher standard. And better dealers, MUCH better dealers. Don't get me started on Audi dealers, who are clearly used to selling bucket loads of A3's and A4's but relatively clueless on the product they make real profit on.
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 21st June 00:45
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