Sold a car privately - COURT ACTION
Discussion
culpz said:
They do not have a case. Seriously. I'm genuinely surprised that the court is actually taking this on. They must get stuff like this all the time. Let them carry on as they wish. It's costing them money before it even takes place so there's a chance that it doesn't even materialise. As many have, no doubt, already stated, it's a scare tactic.
Worst case scenario, they take it to court. They lose and get dismissed within the first 10 mins as they have no legal stand-point to refer to whatsoever. You walk out looking smug as anything.
Worst case scenario for how I think is the judge favours her and she also gets the £35 interest charge per day she is charging me up until the day of the hearing Worst case scenario, they take it to court. They lose and get dismissed within the first 10 mins as they have no legal stand-point to refer to whatsoever. You walk out looking smug as anything.
Edited by culpz on Thursday 3rd August 14:26
someone here did a calculation based on the figures etc and the most she can charge is 45p per day so I am not sure who she is speaking to about all this? I find it absurd!
superlightr said:
its not a public hearing. its in private with a magistrate.
OP as I mentioned before - write today to ask the court that its struck out as you don't know the claimant and have never sold her the car or anything. Your request will be put to a magistrate and they will have a quick look at the paperwork before the court date and may agree its failed on basic procedure - ie she didn't buy the car from you.
Ill get onto this tonight and send it accross first thing in the morning, any particular template I can follow or just write a generic letter asking for it to be looked into further?OP as I mentioned before - write today to ask the court that its struck out as you don't know the claimant and have never sold her the car or anything. Your request will be put to a magistrate and they will have a quick look at the paperwork before the court date and may agree its failed on basic procedure - ie she didn't buy the car from you.
KTF said:
Is Christopher Maggs the person you sold it to as that is the person who seems to have lodged the claim. The sister angle appears to be him using her as the go between.
On all of the court paper work the Claimant is put down as Mrs X and not a Mr M. completely different name altogether.Byker28i said:
But it's done 4000 miles more than when you sold it, in 4 weeks, so couldn't have been a shed?
Surely, as well as the fact you didn't sell it to the woman, that is another point, that they've run up huge mileage in a short time.
Can you claim costs when you win?
Everyone I have told this to are laughing about it even my neighbour who is a trainee lawyer, I think I am only nervous because I haven't been to court before so its one of those things where I hope I get all the key points accross to the judge so they're aware of the actual situation and why it was sold. I am a huge car fanatic and dont like holding on to the same car for a huge length of time and never had a problem.Surely, as well as the fact you didn't sell it to the woman, that is another point, that they've run up huge mileage in a short time.
Can you claim costs when you win?
I just know if they have racked up that amount of mileage in that period of time its just not going to be the same anymore and yes I can claim costs for travel/time off work etc
Vaud said:
If you made those very specific representations with regards to service and quality in your advert then I wouldn't be surprised if the judge forced (some) payment from you. Not the amount sought, but some payment...
I have proof of receipt where the car was serviced 4 days prior and luckily I went back and got a copy from the garage, they are lying about me not supplying them with paperwork as he took the receipt from me. the car had oil change, oil filter and all the other filters, she claims thats not a service though lol. When she called me her interpretation of a service was when all the brakes are changed too. when she mentioned about the tyres I told her she had driven it excessively and of course they will be worn after 4000 miles then she quickly changed the topic and threatened me with court proceedings.tomsimes said:
You say you sold the car in January - did you only buy it in December yourself? There appears to have been two new keepers registered in as many months.
https://cazana.com/uk/car/MFZ2680
I bought the car at the start of october, wasnt changed on logbook for a month or two as the previous seller to me needed to remove his private plate.https://cazana.com/uk/car/MFZ2680
Vaud said:
Can you post up the original advert?
Sure2003 BMW 330CI M SPORT CONVERTIBLE - AUTO FACELIFT
Serviced last week!
M Sport so has the following...
Auto Wipers
M Steering Wheel
Auto Xenon Headlights
Sat Nav (Inc Aux Output)
Electric Power Folding Mirrors
Full Electric Leather Memory Seats
I have since had the following done...
BBS LM Deep Dish Alloys Wheels (8J / 9J)
Upgraded BM54 75w Amp
LED Number Plate Lights
Black Kidney Grills
Rear Lip Spoiler
I have had the car coded for a few more extras such as
Front US Indicator DRL
Windows Close/Open from key fob
Soft top can be closed/opened from key fob
The car is cat D from 2012, apart from this 'history' it performs faultlessly, quick and handles perfectly. Its probably the worst time to sell given that these do increase during the summer however funds required for a family car (3 or 5 E series diesel)
ANY QUESTIONS... JUST ASK smile
Vaud said:
"The car is cat D from 2012, apart from this 'history' it performs faultlessly, quick and handles perfectly."
Sales puffery?
That was the truth whilst in my posession, I am a big believer in what goes around comes around, I sold the car in good faith, not gonna lie I do have a heavy right foot but ONLY out in the sticks/lanes (being the considerate driver that I am :P) however the car came with receipts which equated to thousands that had been spent on it prior to my ownership.Sales puffery?
bmw320ci said:
can you find the equivilant car on autotrader for that price???
I suggest you cant, the reason for the low price is a cat d they thought they were gettig a steal at that price, what car would be that faultless after that time not even a Roller would have been faultless
Caveat emptor is a Latin term that means "let the buyer beware." Similar to the phrase "sold as is," this term means that the buyer assumes the risk that a product may fail to meet expectations or have defects.
you gave the...invitation to treat with the ad of the car at that price.
"...an expression of willingness to negotiate. A person making an invitation to treat does not intend to be bound as soon as it is accepted by the person to whom the statement is addressed." A contract is a legally binding voluntary agreement that is formed when one person makes an offer, and the other accepts it.
anyway the judge will say to her the car was sold with 4k less miles it should have been apparent at the outset and returned the car to him as soon as the issue became apparent
There are a few around the 3k mark but without the extras however becasue cat d it brings down the price quite a bit and he also knocked me down a further couple hundred for the rocker cover gasket which was £100 to fix inc parts/labourI suggest you cant, the reason for the low price is a cat d they thought they were gettig a steal at that price, what car would be that faultless after that time not even a Roller would have been faultless
Caveat emptor is a Latin term that means "let the buyer beware." Similar to the phrase "sold as is," this term means that the buyer assumes the risk that a product may fail to meet expectations or have defects.
you gave the...invitation to treat with the ad of the car at that price.
"...an expression of willingness to negotiate. A person making an invitation to treat does not intend to be bound as soon as it is accepted by the person to whom the statement is addressed." A contract is a legally binding voluntary agreement that is formed when one person makes an offer, and the other accepts it.
anyway the judge will say to her the car was sold with 4k less miles it should have been apparent at the outset and returned the car to him as soon as the issue became apparent
bmw320ci said:
He/she cant even do basic f
king maths.....
£2150 purchase price.
£2,150 x 8% A YEAR!!! 2150 x 0.08 = £172.00
£172 divded by 365 to work out daily interest = £0.47 a day in interest!!!
not the £30 odd she is claiming
I dont think she has actually followed the correct procedure?? do you have a MCOL online login?
He paid me £2100 not the £2150 they've put in and yes I have I have the MCOL Login etcking maths.....£2150 purchase price.
£2,150 x 8% A YEAR!!! 2150 x 0.08 = £172.00
£172 divded by 365 to work out daily interest = £0.47 a day in interest!!!
not the £30 odd she is claiming
I dont think she has actually followed the correct procedure?? do you have a MCOL online login?
Dr Interceptor said:
Is there any truth to the bit about warning lamps removed and deactivated, and airbags deployed but not reinstated correctly?
That would be the bit that would concern me. All the rest of the stuff is wear and tear, and cannot be looked at 4000 miles after a private sale.
Well the airbags etc I wont know about as it was involved in an accident back in 2012, the service light was not reset as the mechanic simply forgot but asked for it to go back for a reset of service lights, this can simply be done by myself it isnt hard to find how to videos on youtube but it was simply forgottenThat would be the bit that would concern me. All the rest of the stuff is wear and tear, and cannot be looked at 4000 miles after a private sale.
fido said:
If the steering pulls to one side then it does not 'perform faultlessly', nor does it, 'handle perfectly'. I think the Buyer has a valid case.
I would never sell something I wouldn't buy myself, £2000 has no meaning to me its the principle, I and the people around me know exactly what the car was and how it handled. It doesn't take much to knock the alignment out of a car!Tyre Tread said:
The Bristol Court website says:Hearings will be arranged at other venues in the area including Bath, Taunton, Gloucester and Worle. We will give as much notice as possible about hearing details.
Since its a small claims case you almost certainly won't be able to claim costs (unless you have incurred costs such as time off work and the other party has acted unreasonably or not followed the PAPs) but you should be able to claim expenses for your travel costs. Can't remember what the goig rate is but wherever the case is heard make sure you know your return mileage and calculate your mileage costs so when at the end of the case the Judge asks if there is anything else you can ask for travel expanses at X miles at Y pence per mile (assuming you have won the case of course).
In the instructions from the Court it should have laid down a time for you and the other party to exchange any relevant docs or witness statements. I would include a detailed statement of account of what happened in your bundle plus copies of any additional papaerwork such as a cop of the V5 that you sent off if you have one plus a copy of the receipt that you gave the purchaser.
Valid point raised that the listed claimant was not the party who purchased the vehicle.Is she mentioned on the receipt? If not then she is not the purchaser and cannot raise a claim against you and it should be thrown out on that basis alone since one of the parties was not a party to the contract of sale. If this is the case you should still ask for expenses.
Were you offered mediation. Did you accept the offer of mediation?
Has the other party offered or stated any intent to supply a bundle of documents. If so and you don't have a copy of the receipt I would write to the Claimant (CC Court) and ask for a copy of the receipt to be included in their bundle. You should receive a copy of the Claimant's bundle as well as the Court. You can refer to the Claimant's bundle when you are given the opportunity to ask questions of the other party.At this point, if the Judge hasn't already picked up on it, you can raise the issue of her not being party to the contract.
Yes I have been offered mediation and can do this up to 10 days prior of the hearing however this is only if we can come to some form of resolution. I am not happy taking the car back due to not knowing what shes done to it, when you refer to this bundle do you mean the particulars of claim?Since its a small claims case you almost certainly won't be able to claim costs (unless you have incurred costs such as time off work and the other party has acted unreasonably or not followed the PAPs) but you should be able to claim expenses for your travel costs. Can't remember what the goig rate is but wherever the case is heard make sure you know your return mileage and calculate your mileage costs so when at the end of the case the Judge asks if there is anything else you can ask for travel expanses at X miles at Y pence per mile (assuming you have won the case of course).
In the instructions from the Court it should have laid down a time for you and the other party to exchange any relevant docs or witness statements. I would include a detailed statement of account of what happened in your bundle plus copies of any additional papaerwork such as a cop of the V5 that you sent off if you have one plus a copy of the receipt that you gave the purchaser.
Valid point raised that the listed claimant was not the party who purchased the vehicle.Is she mentioned on the receipt? If not then she is not the purchaser and cannot raise a claim against you and it should be thrown out on that basis alone since one of the parties was not a party to the contract of sale. If this is the case you should still ask for expenses.
Were you offered mediation. Did you accept the offer of mediation?
Has the other party offered or stated any intent to supply a bundle of documents. If so and you don't have a copy of the receipt I would write to the Claimant (CC Court) and ask for a copy of the receipt to be included in their bundle. You should receive a copy of the Claimant's bundle as well as the Court. You can refer to the Claimant's bundle when you are given the opportunity to ask questions of the other party.At this point, if the Judge hasn't already picked up on it, you can raise the issue of her not being party to the contract.
Edited by Tyre Tread on Thursday 3rd August 15:54
Edited by muussaah on Thursday 3rd August 16:59
PotatoSalad said:
The MS/MR claimant issue aside, sold a car that "performs faultlessly" and "handles perfectly", then admit that it had some leaks and was pulling to one side, so your ad simply lied. Then the "Serviced last week" turns into "had an oil change", I'd expect "service" to be performed in accordance with the maintenance schedule really.
And now the airbags light was on since 2012 because "the mechanic forgot to reset it". Mkaaay...
"lil too juicy on fuel" or "previous owner took months to transfer the plate" sounds like a typical doorstep trader trying to flog a dead horse, next we'll find out that your'e "selling it cause wife doesn't like the colour".
I'll get my popcorn, this thread is going to be fun.
I'll get my popcorn.
when I went back to the garage for a copy of the receipt for the particulars of my defense I confronted the mechanic about the service light and he said he may have forgotten and to take it back to him. I think you've got yourself mixed up with it all we're talkign about the service light! Nothing to do with airbag lights, they were all working and fine (no lights on dash etc) so please read what the claimant has writter properly And now the airbags light was on since 2012 because "the mechanic forgot to reset it". Mkaaay...
"lil too juicy on fuel" or "previous owner took months to transfer the plate" sounds like a typical doorstep trader trying to flog a dead horse, next we'll find out that your'e "selling it cause wife doesn't like the colour".
I'll get my popcorn, this thread is going to be fun.
I'll get my popcorn.
Also when did I lie about leaks and pulling to one side? the car never pulled to any side and if it did then why did he not phone me the following day? or ask me on the day?
The rocker cover gasket I clearly told him and have proof of this too where I text it to him whilst his enquiry on buying it, this isn't even the issue, when he was here I told him to bring his own inspection to which he responded "I know these cars very well and knwo what im buying" he literally arrived and said he wanted to buy the car without any test drives, I insisted he drives it to which he said "no im happy with it and have checked it all out" however I still insisted and took him out for couple miles then when we got back he bought it in such a rush I cant even remember much after the drive, he was gone as if they had planned on doing this!
saaby93 said:
hats there to worry about - the MOT place found some things, fixed, reMOTed 3 days later. It only did 2 miles in between
I took my own mechanic with me and there were no problems, only things he told me were tyres needed replacing soon and front right headlight had slight crack but again as it had an MOT done a month or so before my purchase I happily bought it and enjoyed every minute of it! changed the headlight bought new wheels with tyres and owned it for couple months.Tyre Tread said:
IIRC I believe it states in the Claimant's letter that the airbag light was disconnected and that the airbags had recently deployed.
I'm sure the airbags were deployed back in 2012 but when my mechanic diagnosed the car before my purchase it was all clear on his diag machine so I purchased it, now if certain lights don't work or something is wrong his machine would have picked this up. I know what she's doing, even has the cheek to mention the tyres after excessive mileage so I am not surprised tbhcarl_w said:
No, if you look at the Bond Motor Services invoice the top six lines are what they've been asked to check. The bit after "inspect vehicle and report as follows" is the report. No mention of warning lights having been disconnected -- the only thing electrical seems to be the wiring having been broken off the auto headlight levelling.
Edit: you're right, it's in the letter but it's not in the garage's report.
Heres the email from the garage, seems like this airbag module controls quite a bit however I have spoken to my mechanic and he seems to think that it was replaced and has become faulty as his machine would definitely pick this up... strangeEdit: you're right, it's in the letter but it's not in the garage's report.
Edited by muussaah on Thursday 3rd August 17:36
V8LM said:
OP, sorry if asked and answered, but although 'sold privately', are you in the motor trade?
No, I am a private guy who likes to change cars (once or twice a year) depending on how much money I can afford to lose 
I am a stage 3 computer technician so am all over the place fixing servers/pc's etc
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