RE: BMW M3 (E46): You Know You Want To

[Leins]

culpz said:

You're really missing the point here. BMW's M cars are a different league when it comes to maintenance and parts, compared to normal models, anyway.

Granted, some people have ran them and not had much go wrong and it's mainly just cost consumables and servicing. It's definitely not for the faint-hearted though.

This. If you want to run one and limit your exposure to risk then (personally speaking) this is what to do:

- get compression / leak-down tests done pre-purchase
- get boot checked, and have preventative fix done
- check the Vanos for strange noises
- have the shells, oil pump, bolts done

Is it worth doing that on a £7k M3? Possibly not, but missing one of those things mightn't be pleasant

As for smaller items, the exterior mirror bases corrode and interior mirror can leak acid, but both not bad to have changed (preferably in advance for the interior one). Look out for rust too

[Front bottom]

Leins said:

culpz said:

You're really missing the point here. BMW's M cars are a different league when it comes to maintenance and parts, compared to normal models, anyway.

Granted, some people have ran them and not had much go wrong and it's mainly just cost consumables and servicing. It's definitely not for the faint-hearted though.

This. If you want to run one and limit your exposure to risk then (personally speaking) this is what to do:

- get compression / leak-down tests done pre-purchase
- get boot checked, and have preventative fix done
- check the Vanos for strange noises
- have the shells, oil pump, bolts done

Is it worth doing that on a £7k M3? Possibly not, but missing one of those things mightn't be pleasant

As for smaller items, the exterior mirror bases corrode and interior mirror can leak acid, but both not bad to have changed (preferably in advance for the interior one). Look out for rust too

Had all these issues. The door mirrors were resprayed for £100, then a 'Mirror John' replacement interior mirror glass was another £100. The front arches are just starting to go, but I'm well aware of prices/options on this as it's well documented.

[TheAngryDog]

Scottie - NW said:

TheAngryDog said:

BMW raise their prices every year for parts. Services aren't too bad, but inspection I and II's cost more I believe. E39 M5's and E46 M3's now have fixed price service charges.

BMW M3 (2001-2006)
Engine oil service
£169*
Inspection I
£669*
Inspection II
£899*

BMW M5 (1999-2003)
Engine oil service
£199*
Inspection I
£319*
Inspection II
£539*

The M3 costs more the inspection but less for the oil.

But why would you be going to BMW for a 10 year old M3?

I run a few cars, one a BM and I get my parts from specialists and it costs no more to run a when new 40k BM than my others cars, a 20k when new Mazda etc.

I never have, just giving prices of the charges for visibility. Some parts you can only get from BMW, unless you want to take a chance on parts that look the same, but could be different.

[Dr G]

PH said:

The advert already makes the point that the subframes have already been reinforced; the pictorial evidence shows a job that looks more toward the DIY end of the spectrum

Whilst I'm no expert the welds on the reinforcing plate look excellent. Kudos for showing the work before being sealed up (hidden) too.

[Leins]

TheAngryDog said:

Scottie - NW said:

TheAngryDog said:

BMW raise their prices every year for parts. Services aren't too bad, but inspection I and II's cost more I believe. E39 M5's and E46 M3's now have fixed price service charges.

BMW M3 (2001-2006)
Engine oil service
£169*
Inspection I
£669*
Inspection II
£899*

BMW M5 (1999-2003)
Engine oil service
£199*
Inspection I
£319*
Inspection II
£539*

The M3 costs more the inspection but less for the oil.

But why would you be going to BMW for a 10 year old M3?

I run a few cars, one a BM and I get my parts from specialists and it costs no more to run a when new 40k BM than my others cars, a 20k when new Mazda etc.

I never have, just giving prices of the charges for visibility. Some parts you can only get from BMW, unless you want to take a chance on parts that look the same, but could be different.

And at least BMW are pretty good (but not perfect) for parts supply. Something Audi could do with looking at for older RS models

[HorneyMX5]

I've always loved these and had the opportunity to drive a friends a while back. Certainly a case of don't meet your heros. Was really disappointed. Felt slow, heavy and dim witted. Probably not a surprise as I was running a supercharged mk1 mx5 as a toy at the time.

[culpz]

Funk said:

culpz said:

Yupp, definitely. Just running a non-M BMW can be expensive. Obviously, the price of parts are more than would be on something like a Ford but that's to be expected really.

I can, in no way, afford an M3. A 330ci has been considered multiple times but it's just keeping them in decent working condition.
At the end of the day, the M3 is a 40k car with running costs to match. Just because they can be had much cheaper than that now doesn't affect the maintenance and running costs.

I looked at E46 M3s and decided against at the moment. I went for a tidy 330Ci instead and after sorting out a few niggles it's been fine but I'm still not quite bonding with it the same way I did with my E36 328i. For now though, the 330Ci is a great daily and enough fun to chuck about a bit when the mood takes me but I've got my eye on something with a V8 later this year...

I do think that a decent 330ci is a nice, cheaper alternative the the full fat M car. I think the issue is that it's just a fast cruiser, whereas the M3 is a completely different beast , as you'd expect.
I'm not sure that's what i'm after right now and i'm also not sure, in my current financial state, that i could put up/keep up with the maintenance and common issue on them.

I do keep looking at 325ti's as the rust issues on them seem to be alot less widespread and generally not as bad. But, then again, alot of the common issue on the 330 will be the same for that too.
I definitely need to own both a 6-cylinder and a V8 powered Beemer at some point though for sure!

[jon-yprpe]

SidewaysSi said:

I did consider an E46 M3 recently but decided against it as it wasn't for me - as standard it is more GT car. A bit too heavy, dull and muted for me. So I decided to keep my E36 328i.

However even my car is costing a fair bit - all of which and more I would need to do to a £10k+ M3 to keep me happy and for the use I would put it to:

- Full rust proof
- Bilstein B12 kit
- Vibratechnics engine mounts
- Upgraded top mounts
- New steering arms and bushes all round
- Faster steering rack

That lot including fitting is probably £2.5k for my non M car.

Then you need to add brakes, maybe tyres and a geo, Vanos rebuild, diff rebuild. Then general servicing etc and it all adds up.

I expect to chuck £5k+ at my car but when done it will drive better than an M3 and more suited to the type of driver I am. If I went the M3 route, it would probably end up at £20k which for me is too much for me for this type of car.

Interesting that if you drive a 328i you think an M3 is heavy dull and muted (if manual, SMG not great). My E46 M3 was the best car I ever had, bar none, so much more enjoyable than my F80 M3. Heavy dull and muted is one thing an e46 M3 aint....and when you open up the taps on the S54, it made the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. Like a Lanc taking off. I miss it.

[Front bottom]

HorneyMX5 said:

I've always loved these and had the opportunity to drive a friends a while back. Certainly a case of don't meet your heros. Was really disappointed. Felt slow, heavy and dim witted. Probably not a surprise as I was running a supercharged mk1 mx5 as a toy at the time.

I see what you mean, but these are incredibly sensitive to tlc in my experience.

Service due? Cheap (ish) tyres? (MPSS all round made a world of difference to mine). Even tyre pressures falling below the recommended level all take the sharpness away from these. They feel like a different animal when all this is kept on top of.

[TheAngryDog]

Leins said:

TheAngryDog said:

Scottie - NW said:

TheAngryDog said:

BMW raise their prices every year for parts. Services aren't too bad, but inspection I and II's cost more I believe. E39 M5's and E46 M3's now have fixed price service charges.

BMW M3 (2001-2006)
Engine oil service
£169*
Inspection I
£669*
Inspection II
£899*

BMW M5 (1999-2003)
Engine oil service
£199*
Inspection I
£319*
Inspection II
£539*

The M3 costs more the inspection but less for the oil.

But why would you be going to BMW for a 10 year old M3?

I run a few cars, one a BM and I get my parts from specialists and it costs no more to run a when new 40k BM than my others cars, a 20k when new Mazda etc.

I never have, just giving prices of the charges for visibility. Some parts you can only get from BMW, unless you want to take a chance on parts that look the same, but could be different.

And at least BMW are pretty good (but not perfect) for parts supply. Something Audi could do with looking at for older RS models

Ford are similar. 10 year run out I think.

[kambites]

Front bottom said:

HorneyMX5 said:

I've always loved these and had the opportunity to drive a friends a while back. Certainly a case of don't meet your heros. Was really disappointed. Felt slow, heavy and dim witted. Probably not a surprise as I was running a supercharged mk1 mx5 as a toy at the time.

I see what you mean, but these are incredibly sensitive to tlc in my experience.

Service due? Cheap (ish) tyres? (MPSS all round made a world of difference to mine). Even tyre pressures falling below the recommended level all take the sharpness away from these. They feel like a different animal when all this is kept on top of.

Never going to feel like a supercharged MX5 though.

Ultimately it's a big heavy 4 seater. Condition makes the difference between it being a rather loose, wallowy barge which doesn't want to rev and a tight, sublimely damped one with one of the best engines ever fitted to a mainstream road car, but whatever you do (within reason) to it it's never going to feel like a sports car.

[Alpinestars]

Leins said:

The last service bill on mine (albeit a CSL) was more than the purchase price of this

Sorry, but that doesn't sound like just a "service". What did you have done for that much?

[siovey]

How times change! I could barely give mine away a couple of years back. Looked the same as this one but had 43k on it. I struggled to get any more than £10.5k...
Oh well

[lord trumpton]

Had a few of these over the years.

They are now at the price point that invites all the younger crowd who mod them, thrash them and scrimp on servicing.

If you can find a good, low owner/mileage manual coupe then they are fairly reliable and will fare well for a future return. Buy a cheapie high miler then they can quickly turn into a wallet hoover and the cost to get right will outstrip the likely future value.

They are a nice car with a stonking engine but not that fast - most modern hot hatches keep them honest.

[Leins]

Alpinestars said:

Sorry, but that doesn't sound like just a "service". What did you have done for that much?

Check previous pages in thread, have then list of big items there

[Alpinestars]

Leins said:

Alpinestars said:

Sorry, but that doesn't sound like just a "service". What did you have done for that much?

Check previous pages in thread, have then list of big items there

Thanks. I hadn't read the whole thread when I posted. I never put many miles on my Ms so it pretty much 2 year servicing which is not at all unreasonable in my view.

[Leins]

Alpinestars said:

Leins said:

Alpinestars said:

Sorry, but that doesn't sound like just a "service". What did you have done for that much?

Check previous pages in thread, have then list of big items there

Thanks. I hadn't read the whole thread when I posted. I never put many miles on my Ms so it pretty much 2 year servicing which is not at all unreasonable in my view.

I only put 9k miles on mine in 5 years, although changed the oil every 12 months regardless

Sometimes I wonder if I didn't drive it enough, and that was certainly true of my old E34 M5. Feckin thing would hate me if I left it alone for a while!

[Dr Nookie]

MikeGoodwin said:

I wouldn't dare run an M car without warranty and the servicing costs would break me.

I've had an S54 ZM Coupe for 12 years now and aside from the recent suspension overhaul(at my choice) it's been extremely reasonable to run and I'm over 100k now.
Look after cars and they'll look after you for the most part.

[SidewaysSi]

jon-yprpe said:

SidewaysSi said:

I did consider an E46 M3 recently but decided against it as it wasn't for me - as standard it is more GT car. A bit too heavy, dull and muted for me. So I decided to keep my E36 328i.

However even my car is costing a fair bit - all of which and more I would need to do to a £10k+ M3 to keep me happy and for the use I would put it to:

- Full rust proof
- Bilstein B12 kit
- Vibratechnics engine mounts
- Upgraded top mounts
- New steering arms and bushes all round
- Faster steering rack

That lot including fitting is probably £2.5k for my non M car.

Then you need to add brakes, maybe tyres and a geo, Vanos rebuild, diff rebuild. Then general servicing etc and it all adds up.

I expect to chuck £5k+ at my car but when done it will drive better than an M3 and more suited to the type of driver I am. If I went the M3 route, it would probably end up at £20k which for me is too much for me for this type of car.

Interesting that if you drive a 328i you think an M3 is heavy dull and muted (if manual, SMG not great). My E46 M3 was the best car I ever had, bar none, so much more enjoyable than my F80 M3. Heavy dull and muted is one thing an e46 M3 aint....and when you open up the taps on the S54, it made the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. Like a Lanc taking off. I miss it.

Depends what you are used to and what you want from a car. I had just stepped out of an Integra R and in comparison, the M3 was a fast cruiser. Nice engine but again, probably not a patch on the Honda's.

My main gripe with the M3 was it was a bit too accomplished as standard. I don't want electric seats or a fancy radio which all add mass. I like my cars simple and light (I am a Caterham and Elise type). Also the weight of the engine made itself felt which I didn't like either. Steering was quite poor as was the gearchange and it required more commitment than I am willing to give on the road to make it move underneath me.

Hence the lighter, less grippy (skinny 15" tyres) 328i.

Saying that as standard, it needs some (going to be a lot!) of upgrades but these are cheaper than on the M3 and will make for a more fun and focused car. Hopefully what I will be left with is a great road car which I can push hard and enjoy on road without costing the earth. Low grip, less mass fun which is what I prefer.

[TheAngryDog]

SidewaysSi said:

Depends what you are used to and what you want from a car. I had just stepped out of an Integra R and in comparison, the M3 was a fast cruiser. Nice engine but again, probably not a patch on the Honda's.

My main gripe with the M3 was it was a bit too accomplished as standard. I don't want electric seats or a fancy radio which all add mass. I like my cars simple and light (I am a Caterham and Elise type). Also the weight of the engine made itself felt which I didn't like either. Steering was quite poor as was the gearchange and it required more commitment than I am willing to give on the road to make it move underneath me.

Hence the lighter, less grippy (skinny 15" tyres) 328i.

Saying that as standard, it needs some (going to be a lot!) of upgrades but these are cheaper than on the M3 and will make for a more fun and focused car. Hopefully what I will be left with is a great road car which I can push hard and enjoy on road without costing the earth. Low grip, less mass fun which is what I prefer.

You like to slide cars around on public roads then?