RE: Alfa Romeo Giulia Veloce: Driven
Discussion
Roma101 said:
Perhaps what people are finding odd/worrying etc is that Top Gear, PH and Evo all had issues with their test cars (i.e. they stopped working properly). When was the last time any of the Germans had most of their test fleet stop working properly?
Then, a number of customer cars stopped working as well.
Now the problem(s) that led to all of this may be easy to fix, but the knock on affect, as proved in the threads on this car, is that many people now have a negative perception of the car's reliability (enhanced perhaps by the reliability records of ALFA models of the past). Whether people are right or wrong to have this perception is a pointless argument as they have that perception and ultimately, that is all that matters. (Forget reality!)
Therefore, it was not a great start to the car's life from this point of view. Which is a shame, as it seems the car is very good when it works.
Also, I think it is a little unfair to criticise the journalists for "creating" a negative image of the car. They can only report what they find.
Especially when BMWs, Audi's and Mercs all work so faultlessly on pre-production (and after). Oh, hang on.....Then, a number of customer cars stopped working as well.
Now the problem(s) that led to all of this may be easy to fix, but the knock on affect, as proved in the threads on this car, is that many people now have a negative perception of the car's reliability (enhanced perhaps by the reliability records of ALFA models of the past). Whether people are right or wrong to have this perception is a pointless argument as they have that perception and ultimately, that is all that matters. (Forget reality!)
Therefore, it was not a great start to the car's life from this point of view. Which is a shame, as it seems the car is very good when it works.
Also, I think it is a little unfair to criticise the journalists for "creating" a negative image of the car. They can only report what they find.
Out of interest, what problems did Top Gear and Evo have?
Wills2 said:
Ares said:
kambites said:
The standard model is certainly much more cohesive looking than the QF.
You think? The Guilia strikes me as being a top down design, as opposed to the M3/C63 being bottom up?The QF, in my (admittedly biased) viewpoint, works beautifully. Mix of beauty, purpose and aggression.
I just said it looks top down. I.e., they designed the QF, then removed bits to make the rest of the range, as opposed to the M3 and C63 that look like the main range was designed first, then bits added to make the M3/C63.
Given the QF was launched first, and the M3/C63 launched last, it's perhaps more than a theory?
Lets not start with the slag anyone off that doesn't masterbate over a German car
Ali_T said:
Ares said:
I agree with this. The issue with the PH Quadrifoglio was documented, explain and resolved. Alfa UK's screw up, but a shame that PH follows the rest of the UK media in doing whatever is necessary to be negative at any given opportunity for someone breaking the comparatively dull mould.
PS - glad you are enjoying trouble free motoring..AND liked the Dark Grey (Vesuvio)....my Quadrifoglio arrives, in that colour, in August!!
It could be the old Haymarket bias to anything German, especially VAG related. I'm very suspicious of any Autocar or PH review nowadays, sadly. Any pictures of Vesuvio? My QF arrives in the next few weeks but my stereotyped choice of Rosso Competizione and silver teledials isn't really breaking the mould!PS - glad you are enjoying trouble free motoring..AND liked the Dark Grey (Vesuvio)....my Quadrifoglio arrives, in that colour, in August!!
ash73 said:
RichardOfYork said:
Not that it mattered, aside from wanting to open it at full throttle through a tunnel, I dislike sunroofs anyway!
- but give it a chance to break, still in build at the moment...Dan Trent said:
Evening all!
I'll start by saying I really, really like the Giulia. And not just because I 'wanted' to like it because it was an Alfa Romeo and looks good. Which it does. But because it's a great product, fundamentally really well sorted and in all specs and trims drives really nicely. Hand on heart if I were in the market for a car in this sector it's the one I'd happily go for.
Not to say it's beyond criticism though.
In response to the 'flaky trim' comments I stand by that. The interior is stylish and generally well put together but to my mind the fact the shifter - a component you use from the moment you first get in the car and crucial 'first impression' - is a flimsy, plasticky and has sharp moulding seams on it. These things matter - I remember loving my mum's old Cinquecento Sporting because the bits you touched - steering wheel and shifter - were leather-trimmed. The rest of it was cheap as chips but you didn't mind. And odd that the shifter paddles in the Giulia are a masterclass in this regard - where Audi puts flimsy little plastic paddle shifters on all its cars (R8 included) the big aluminium ones in the Veloce are a lovely point of interaction with the car. Just makes stuff that isn't so nice the more frustrating!
And with regard to the fault that occurred on our shoot with the M3 and C63 - we had to report that. The Alfa Romeo was supplied on the understanding it was going up against the best of the German rivals and they were fully up for the fight. On the day it broke. Neither of the German cars did. Obviously that's not the same as an ownership experience and plenty of Mercedes and BMWs have had their issues too. But it was massively frustrating that with the stage set for the Quadrifoglio to really demonstrate its worth against the best of AMG and M it stumbled. I was absolutely gutted because in the moments it did work it showed it combined the best of both the German cars.
For the owners who haven't experienced any such problems I say bravo. We had to call it as it happened though. And Alfa Romeo has promised a car for a rematch. Looking forward to that!
Dan
In bold, above, pretty much sums Alfa up, and that's coming from a fully paid-up Alfa fanboi.I'll start by saying I really, really like the Giulia. And not just because I 'wanted' to like it because it was an Alfa Romeo and looks good. Which it does. But because it's a great product, fundamentally really well sorted and in all specs and trims drives really nicely. Hand on heart if I were in the market for a car in this sector it's the one I'd happily go for.
Not to say it's beyond criticism though.
In response to the 'flaky trim' comments I stand by that. The interior is stylish and generally well put together but to my mind the fact the shifter - a component you use from the moment you first get in the car and crucial 'first impression' - is a flimsy, plasticky and has sharp moulding seams on it. These things matter - I remember loving my mum's old Cinquecento Sporting because the bits you touched - steering wheel and shifter - were leather-trimmed. The rest of it was cheap as chips but you didn't mind. And odd that the shifter paddles in the Giulia are a masterclass in this regard - where Audi puts flimsy little plastic paddle shifters on all its cars (R8 included) the big aluminium ones in the Veloce are a lovely point of interaction with the car. Just makes stuff that isn't so nice the more frustrating!
And with regard to the fault that occurred on our shoot with the M3 and C63 - we had to report that. The Alfa Romeo was supplied on the understanding it was going up against the best of the German rivals and they were fully up for the fight. On the day it broke. Neither of the German cars did. Obviously that's not the same as an ownership experience and plenty of Mercedes and BMWs have had their issues too. But it was massively frustrating that with the stage set for the Quadrifoglio to really demonstrate its worth against the best of AMG and M it stumbled. I was absolutely gutted because in the moments it did work it showed it combined the best of both the German cars.
For the owners who haven't experienced any such problems I say bravo. We had to call it as it happened though. And Alfa Romeo has promised a car for a rematch. Looking forward to that!
Dan
My 159 ti had lovely leather seats and steering wheel etc, but you could not escape the scratchy feeling you got from the indicator stalks and the like - it would have been such an easy thing to sort. A Fiat 500, for example, has lovely stalks in comparison. Why can't the 'premium' Alfa. Seems they have not learnt.
Saying that, although I've now got a C63 estate, I would have got a Giulia QF in a heartbeat if they did a wagon version - hopefully in time it will appear.
phil1979 said:
Dan Trent said:
Evening all!
I'll start by saying I really, really like the Giulia. And not just because I 'wanted' to like it because it was an Alfa Romeo and looks good. Which it does. But because it's a great product, fundamentally really well sorted and in all specs and trims drives really nicely. Hand on heart if I were in the market for a car in this sector it's the one I'd happily go for.
Not to say it's beyond criticism though.
In response to the 'flaky trim' comments I stand by that. The interior is stylish and generally well put together but to my mind the fact the shifter - a component you use from the moment you first get in the car and crucial 'first impression' - is a flimsy, plasticky and has sharp moulding seams on it. These things matter - I remember loving my mum's old Cinquecento Sporting because the bits you touched - steering wheel and shifter - were leather-trimmed. The rest of it was cheap as chips but you didn't mind. And odd that the shifter paddles in the Giulia are a masterclass in this regard - where Audi puts flimsy little plastic paddle shifters on all its cars (R8 included) the big aluminium ones in the Veloce are a lovely point of interaction with the car. Just makes stuff that isn't so nice the more frustrating!
And with regard to the fault that occurred on our shoot with the M3 and C63 - we had to report that. The Alfa Romeo was supplied on the understanding it was going up against the best of the German rivals and they were fully up for the fight. On the day it broke. Neither of the German cars did. Obviously that's not the same as an ownership experience and plenty of Mercedes and BMWs have had their issues too. But it was massively frustrating that with the stage set for the Quadrifoglio to really demonstrate its worth against the best of AMG and M it stumbled. I was absolutely gutted because in the moments it did work it showed it combined the best of both the German cars.
For the owners who haven't experienced any such problems I say bravo. We had to call it as it happened though. And Alfa Romeo has promised a car for a rematch. Looking forward to that!
Dan
In bold, above, pretty much sums Alfa up, and that's coming from a fully paid-up Alfa fanboi.I'll start by saying I really, really like the Giulia. And not just because I 'wanted' to like it because it was an Alfa Romeo and looks good. Which it does. But because it's a great product, fundamentally really well sorted and in all specs and trims drives really nicely. Hand on heart if I were in the market for a car in this sector it's the one I'd happily go for.
Not to say it's beyond criticism though.
In response to the 'flaky trim' comments I stand by that. The interior is stylish and generally well put together but to my mind the fact the shifter - a component you use from the moment you first get in the car and crucial 'first impression' - is a flimsy, plasticky and has sharp moulding seams on it. These things matter - I remember loving my mum's old Cinquecento Sporting because the bits you touched - steering wheel and shifter - were leather-trimmed. The rest of it was cheap as chips but you didn't mind. And odd that the shifter paddles in the Giulia are a masterclass in this regard - where Audi puts flimsy little plastic paddle shifters on all its cars (R8 included) the big aluminium ones in the Veloce are a lovely point of interaction with the car. Just makes stuff that isn't so nice the more frustrating!
And with regard to the fault that occurred on our shoot with the M3 and C63 - we had to report that. The Alfa Romeo was supplied on the understanding it was going up against the best of the German rivals and they were fully up for the fight. On the day it broke. Neither of the German cars did. Obviously that's not the same as an ownership experience and plenty of Mercedes and BMWs have had their issues too. But it was massively frustrating that with the stage set for the Quadrifoglio to really demonstrate its worth against the best of AMG and M it stumbled. I was absolutely gutted because in the moments it did work it showed it combined the best of both the German cars.
For the owners who haven't experienced any such problems I say bravo. We had to call it as it happened though. And Alfa Romeo has promised a car for a rematch. Looking forward to that!
Dan
My 159 ti had lovely leather seats and steering wheel etc, but you could not escape the scratchy feeling you got from the indicator stalks and the like - it would have been such an easy thing to sort. A Fiat 500, for example, has lovely stalks in comparison. Why can't the 'premium' Alfa. Seems they have not learnt.
Saying that, although I've now got a C63 estate, I would have got a Giulia QF in a heartbeat if they did a wagon version - hopefully in time it will appear.
Ironically, its the same on as in the Ghibli S, but in that it's better leather. Alfa do do a carbon fibre replacement gearshifter, which can be retro fitted for £200 or so. Mine will be getting that!
KTF said:
No sir would not!
Period red seats OK.
Unfortunately those red centered seats look like they belong in a 12 year old's bedroom attached to a PC and whenever you park up you'll get grease stains on the glass from the same kids gawping at the interior. Period red seats OK.
A partially colored dash is ok for me, subtle contrast color piping on seats or a less prominent pattern in the center at most.
Ransoman said:
GTEYE said:
But the point is Alfa had plenty of time to get this car 100% right, and from a manufacturer with a reputation to rebuild, that's what I have an issue with.
No they didn't, A specialist engineering team built a brand new car on a brand new chassis with brand new engines in a record little amount of time (2.5 years I believe). It's not like a BMW where they just adapt the existing platform every couple of years.RSchneider said:
But another thing is also true: The Giulia suffers from electric gremlins, like warning lights going on and off randomly, starter button refusing to do anything, electric windows having their own life. All these things disappear with a reboot/restart and other Fiats also have them, but it is very Italian and one of the reasons Audi/BMW/Mercedes is the choice for anyone but the Alfa enthusiast.
Sounds like my neighbour's 4 series, my supplier's E class and my wife's Volvo...
Ruskins said:
E65Ross said:
So the new 5 series is just adapted from the old one is it? Errrr....
Well they started with something and an engine line up. They didn't just bin the whole platform and all the engines did they? GTEYE said:
Ruskins said:
E65Ross said:
So the new 5 series is just adapted from the old one is it? Errrr....
Well they started with something and an engine line up. They didn't just bin the whole platform and all the engines did they? E65Ross said:
Ransoman said:
GTEYE said:
But the point is Alfa had plenty of time to get this car 100% right, and from a manufacturer with a reputation to rebuild, that's what I have an issue with.
No they didn't, A specialist engineering team built a brand new car on a brand new chassis with brand new engines in a record little amount of time (2.5 years I believe). It's not like a BMW where they just adapt the existing platform every couple of years.Ruskins said:
RSchneider said:
But another thing is also true: The Giulia suffers from electric gremlins, like warning lights going on and off randomly, starter button refusing to do anything, electric windows having their own life. All these things disappear with a reboot/restart and other Fiats also have them, but it is very Italian and one of the reasons Audi/BMW/Mercedes is the choice for anyone but the Alfa enthusiast.
Where did you find out this truth? Ruskins said:
Roma101 said:
Perhaps what people are finding odd/worrying etc is that Top Gear, PH and Evo all had issues with their test cars (i.e. they stopped working properly). When was the last time any of the Germans had most of their test fleet stop working properly?
First I have heard of TG or Evo having any problems? I find it hard to believe that no German car has ever had a problem during road testing. Most likely a new one was supplied in 5 minutes and the issue wasn't reported surely?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff