RE: New Renault Sport Megane spied on the Nurburgring

[Quickmoose]

Insignia - Vectra
Mondeo
Nissan Micra
Ford Kuga
Quashqai

besides those though I'll recognise that the most very recent models are turning the trend... which is not saying a lot when you look at the trend over the past 10-20-30 years

so name me a 5 door hot hatch that's lighter than it's 3 door equivalent...

[Krikkit]

E65Ross said:

Quickmoose said:

I'm going to stick with the modern counterparts weighing more than their ancestors
Using more resources to build - materials
Reduced visability
Increased systems to counter the above

in fact other than.. yes, modern engines are more efficient...I'm sticking with all that I previously wrote.
Bigger, heavier, technically more complicated for no good reason, increased levels of resource to build.
A bulb has not changed it's size, so why has the lamp unit?
How come a car now really requires an 18" rim to look anywhere near proportional?
Why do we need a computer to decide if it's dark enough to put our lights on?

Name me 5 car models where the current generation is heavier than the last. I'll start with the opposite....

New 5 series, new 7 series, new MX5, new Audi A5 and Lamborghini Huracan.

Over to you.

BUT that bucks the trend of the last 15 years, including the 3, 5 and 7 series, MX5, all the family hatchbacks etc etc. It's only now that more advanced manufacturing/design and materials and increased emissions pressures have forced them to work harder to get the weight down.

[GrumpyTwig]

MikeGoodwin said:

Hope it wipes the floor with everything in its class for the next decade.

I think Renault are aware of how the Clio 4 was received and what the New Megane RS has to live up to. Doubt itll be as fast as some of the new hot hatches but hopefully be fun and somewhat engaging to drive like the outgoing 275.

The Clio wasn't so badly received outside of the UK. It's just us roast beef that seemed to really dislike it.

[Speed_Demon]

How is this going to be faster than the FK8 Type R? It's either gonna have to be lighter or a good deal more power given that the Civic has great grip and handling characteristics.

In fact I'm pretty sure they won't beat it with the stock Megane Sport, but with a later Trophy-R version that will no doubt be hardcore and track focused.

[GrumpyTwig]

Speed_Demon said:

How is this going to be faster than the FK8 Type R? It's either gonna have to be lighter or a good deal more power given that the Civic has great grip and handling characteristics.

In fact I'm pretty sure they won't beat it with the stock Megane Sport, but with a later Trophy-R version that will no doubt be hardcore and track focused.

But it's got rear wheel steering!!!!

/joke

[Porsche911R]

Quickmoose said:

this.

Cars grow with the new tech.
Crash regs grow to keep pace
Cars grow to keep in line with crash regs
SUVs
Crash regs grow to cater for SUVs
Cars grow to keep in line with crash regs
Car weight continues to grow to allow for even more (mostly pointless imo) car tech
Crash regs change to cater for car weight
Cars grow to cater for crash regs

Big cars need design tricks to keep them looking in any way decent.
Massive headlights
floating roof lines
blacked out pillars
Huge door mirrors
complex creases and panel shut lines
massive wheels
massive doors...or additional doors

"Hot hatches" started out as 3 door.
now they're 5 door
It's not particularly shallow to bemoan the change if you don't like it... yes they're meant to be a mix of practicality and 'sportiness'... fine...so give us choice maybe? the mass majority direction isn't always the right one.... every lazy driver chooses DCT so now we can't have a manual? I think a few cars recently have shown there is still room for the stick....
I know I won't be happy the day the top of the line Lamborghini goes forced induction, fully auto, ev and 4 door....
that'll be fine for the majority though right...so equally as acceptable?



The mass market sectors are struggling to hold on to 'style'

I just see balding over weight dads in 5 doors lol a Hot hatch has to be 3 for me sorry , stuck in my ways.

For me a Hot hatch is about freedom, young single men enjoying cars, not over weight dads who have a bit of cash and need a 5 door and a baby seat, it's a bad look lol.

we all know it's to cut costs but 5 door Hot hatch's look st.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 22 June 17:03

[Roma101]

Porsche911R said:

Quickmoose said:

this.

Cars grow with the new tech.
Crash regs grow to keep pace
Cars grow to keep in line with crash regs
SUVs
Crash regs grow to cater for SUVs
Cars grow to keep in line with crash regs
Car weight continues to grow to allow for even more (mostly pointless imo) car tech
Crash regs change to cater for car weight
Cars grow to cater for crash regs

Big cars need design tricks to keep them looking in any way decent.
Massive headlights
floating roof lines
blacked out pillars
Huge door mirrors
complex creases and panel shut lines
massive wheels
massive doors...or additional doors

"Hot hatches" started out as 3 door.
now they're 5 door
It's not particularly shallow to bemoan the change if you don't like it... yes they're meant to be a mix of practicality and 'sportiness'... fine...so give us choice maybe? the mass majority direction isn't always the right one.... every lazy driver chooses DCT so now we can't have a manual? I think a few cars recently have shown there is still room for the stick....
I know I won't be happy the day the top of the line Lamborghini goes forced induction, fully auto, ev and 4 door....
that'll be fine for the majority though right...so equally as acceptable?



The mass market sectors are struggling to hold on to 'style'

I just see balding over weight dads in 5 doors lol a Hot hatch has to be 3 for me sorry , stuck in my ways.

For me a Hot hatch is about freedom, young single men enjoying cars, not over weight dads who have a bit of cash and need a 5 door and a baby seat, it's a bad look lol.

we all know it's to cut costs but 5 door Hot hatch's look st.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 22 June 17:03

I would agree that the general rule is that 3 doors looks better than 5 on a hot hatch. IMO, the exception is the M140i.

Anyway...how does the author of the article know that the diffuser is fake. Did he speak to the Renault engineers about it?

[M1C]

Could it not be that these aren't in fact hot hatches?

Should we re-label cars such as Golf R, FRS, CTR and this which will all have 300+bhp as Uberhatches?

Wheras the Fiesta ST, 208 GTi, Clio RS (200bhp area) are Hot hatches?

[Tickle]

M1C said:

Could it not be that these aren't in fact hot hatches?

Should we re-label cars such as Golf R, FRS, CTR and this which will all have 300+bhp as Uberhatches?

Wheras the Fiesta ST, 208 GTi, Clio RS (200bhp area) are Hot hatches?

They are hot hatches, no need to add 'uber' to them. Unless they utilise the additional doors and use the car as a taxi.

[nickfrog]

Porsche911R said:

I just see balding over weight dads in 5 doors lol a Hot hatch has to be 3 for me sorry , stuck in my ways.

Yes and as soon as said blokes jump in a 3-door, they suddenly look very different and women throw themselves at their feet.

[AH33]

Pfft, 5dr hot hatches have generally looked better than the 3dr version starting with the Mk5 Golf GTi. There's too much bloat behind the b pillar in most of them.

[DoubleD]

AH33 said:

Pfft, 5dr hot hatches have generally looked better than the 3dr version starting with the Mk5 Golf GTi. There's too much bloat behind the b pillar in most of them.

I think the opposite to be honest. To me 5 door hot hatches look to grown up and less playful.

[DiscoColin]

Unless they have a system to stop owners from spectacularly binning them at the crest before Schwedenkreuz then the subject is a bit pointless to my mind...

[swanny71]

Porsche911R said:

If it's a 5 door it's dead to hot hatch fans.

Sorry, but that's a load of old bks for this hot hatch fan.

[nickfrog]

DiscoColin said:

Unless they have a system to stop owners from spectacularly binning them at the crest before Schwedenkreuz then the subject is a bit pointless to my mind...

Ah ah. You have a point - on the other hand that's probably thanks to those videos that I don't bin mine there - I probably lift 150m before the crest and in a straight line and turn in a 7/10ths of lat grip. This "corner" really scares me but tbh that started 6 years ago.

[oilspill]

E65Ross said:

Name me 5 car models where the current generation is heavier than the last. I'll start with the opposite....

New 5 series, new 7 series, new MX5, new Audi A5 and Lamborghini Huracan.

Over to you.

Current gen?

"I'm going to stick with the modern counterparts weighing more than their ancestors"

Most model's weight has increased dramtically over the past 3 decades. Are the cars you mentioned able to go back to skinny tyres because their weight has drastically reduced? no

Edited by oilspill on Thursday 22 June 20:10

[oilspill]

Porsche911R said:

I just see balding over weight dads in 5 doors lol a Hot hatch has to be 3 for me sorry , stuck in my ways.

For me a Hot hatch is about freedom, young single men enjoying cars, not over weight dads who have a bit of cash and need a 5 door and a baby seat, it's a bad look lol.

we all know it's to cut costs but 5 door Hot hatch's look st.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 22 June 17:03

Sorry but 3 door hatches have always been shopping cars aimed at women. Where I lspend a lot of time balding dads mostly drive Vivaro hatches, they carry around Motocross bikes and Karts not male grooming products. Manufacturers were laughing when they were able to attract easily impressionable young men to the same 'chic' body style as the women. Saved loads in dev costs.

Edited by oilspill on Thursday 22 June 20:13

[ukaskew]

If you want 3 doors these days you need to drop down to models that are the size that 3 door hatches used to be.

You can't grow up with the model range and accept the huge size increases and not expect them to conform to models traditionally that size.

[Simon Owen]

Several years ago I purchased a R26 F1 Team 230 Megane on spec .... I can still remember my drive home today, absolutely blown away by the driving experience !!

Eventually progressed to a 265 and now a 275 Trophy with Ohlins. Didn't seem to matter what I drove the RS still felt really special afterwards, hence the three purchases.

For those that like the Renaultsport formula I so hope they get this right, can they capture the magic of the old car but with all 'daily' stuff to make it a better all rounder ... who knows ??

[DoubleD]

Simon Owen said:

Several years ago I purchased a R26 F1 Team 230 Megane on spec .... I can still remember my drive home today, absolutely blown away by the driving experience !!

Eventually progressed to a 265 and now a 275 Trophy with Ohlins. Didn't seem to matter what I drove the RS still felt really special afterwards, hence the three purchases.

For those that like the Renaultsport formula I so hope they get this right, can they capture the magic of the old car but with all 'daily' stuff to make it a better all rounder ... who knows ??

Apparently you have a girls shopping car and the manufacturer is laughing at you.