Being warned by other motorists......police camera van ahead

[vonhosen]

Dr Jekyll said:

culpz said:

Whilst i agree with that you're getting at, how do you expect the Police to enforce this kind of behaviour? Cameras would be next to no use here. The reason why various camera equipment is used to catch people going over the limit, by using such technology, is simply because it's fairly straightforward to gather evidence of the offender(s).

We've got a good hammer, let's treat everything as a nail.

It's not treating everything as a nail, the hammer is only tasked to deal with nails (there are other means for problems that require screwing/sawing etc).
And it's a toffee hammer only being used on those nails (admittedly millions of various sized nails).

[havoc]

vonhosen said:

It's not treating everything as a nail, the hammer is only tasked to deal with nails (there are other means for problems that require screwing/sawing etc).

What are the statistics for drug-driving prosecutions?

How about the statistics for prosecuting / FPN'ing driving while using a handheld mobile phone? I probably see more people doing that on a typical journey than I do 'properly speeding' (i.e. clearly more than the 10% +2 rule-of-thumb).

Or how about statistics for dealing with middle-lane-morons?



I'd be interested in seeing how they compare to the number of FPNs* issued by the SCPs for speeding offences each year...

* And if it's an FPN then it's not a dangerous/careless issue, merely exceeding the posted limit.

[vonhosen]

havoc said:

vonhosen said:

It's not treating everything as a nail, the hammer is only tasked to deal with nails (there are other means for problems that require screwing/sawing etc).

What are the statistics for drug-driving prosecutions?

How about the statistics for prosecuting / FPN'ing driving while using a handheld mobile phone? I probably see more people doing that on a typical journey than I do 'properly speeding' (i.e. clearly more than the 10% +2 rule-of-thumb).

Or how about statistics for dealing with middle-lane-morons?



I'd be interested in seeing how they compare to the number of FPNs* issued by the SCPs for speeding offences each year...

What's the relevance in regard to my statement?

There are more parking tickets than speeding tickets, so what?

The reasons you'll see more is that the offence is more prevalent & it's easier to gain evidence for as well has having a more efficient detection/prosecution process.

havoc said:

* And if it's an FPN then it's not a dangerous/careless issue, merely exceeding the posted limit.

The offence of speeding isn't a dangerous/careless issue, the offence itself isn't geared around that (whether it results in no action, course, FPN or court). It's a simple regulatory offence where no evidence of any danger is required, only that you drove outside the clearly defined acceptable parameters.

[Jagmanv12]

havoc said:

* And if it's an FPN then it's not a dangerous/careless issue, merely exceeding the posted limit.

In some cases the posted limit is totally inappropriate.

Sometimes there is a camera van on a road that hasn't changed in 50 years. Originally it was unrestricted, then 70 and now 50.
There's no new houses, side roads, commercial development, etc so no need for a lower limit.

It's a decent piece of dual carriageway so with the ridiculously low limit it's an ideal place to put a revenue van.

[Boosted LS1]

The Mad Monk said:

traffman said:

Do these so called camera safety vans actually contain Police in them? As far as i was aware they are civillians carrying out the work of the devil?

Just one more time.

The police are civilians.

We have a civilian police service in Britain.

But a civilian operator isn't a policeman.

[bad company]

The Mad Monk said:

traffman said:

Do these so called camera safety vans actually contain Police in them? As far as i was aware they are civillians carrying out the work of the devil?

Just one more time.

The police are civilians.

We have a civilian police service in Britain.

So you've never heard of non police officers doing police work being referred to as civilians? As you well know he simply meant that the camera was not being operated by a police officer.

[Johnnytheboy]

WCZ said:

siovey said:

I did this once. The car coming in the opposite direction was really traveling in a 30 zone. Seemed way over the limit. So I flashed him to slow down. Turned out to be an unmarked police car who stopped me shortly after.

He gave me a warning, advising it was against the law etc. And next time I would get fined.So I haven't done it since

what a prick

If he was cracking on, and didn't have blue lights on, wasn't he also breaking the law?

(genuine question, I don't know how the law would apply here)

[The Mad Monk]

Boosted LS1 said:

The Mad Monk said:

traffman said:

Do these so called camera safety vans actually contain Police in them? As far as i was aware they are civillians carrying out the work of the devil?

Just one more time.

The police are civilians.

We have a civilian police service in Britain.

But a civilian operator isn't a policeman.

Might be.

[havoc]

vonhosen said:

havoc said:

vonhosen said:

It's not treating everything as a nail, the hammer is only tasked to deal with nails (there are other means for problems that require screwing/sawing etc).

What are the statistics for drug-driving prosecutions?

How about the statistics for prosecuting / FPN'ing driving while using a handheld mobile phone? I probably see more people doing that on a typical journey than I do 'properly speeding' (i.e. clearly more than the 10% +2 rule-of-thumb).

Or how about statistics for dealing with middle-lane-morons?

I'd be interested in seeing how they compare to the number of FPNs* issued by the SCPs for speeding offences each year...

What's the relevance in regard to my statement?

There are more parking tickets than speeding tickets, so what?

The reasons you'll see more is that the offence is more prevalent & it's easier to gain evidence for as well has having a more efficient detection/prosecution process.

The relevance is that you said there are other means for dealing with other road traffic offences.

So I (effectively) asked what those means were and how effective were they?

Because from the perspective of the average driver (man in the Clapham Audi?), there seems to be a disproportionate amount of resources dedicated to enforcing speed limits compared to the other offences.

Or put another way, policing seems to be skewed towards what's EASY to do, not necessarily what's WORTHWHILE (i.e. benefit to society / road safety) to do. (Which JFK would see as backwards)

[Short Grain]

Johnnytheboy said:

WCZ said:

siovey said:

I did this once. The car coming in the opposite direction was really traveling in a 30 zone. Seemed way over the limit. So I flashed him to slow down. Turned out to be an unmarked police car who stopped me shortly after.

He gave me a warning, advising it was against the law etc. And next time I would get fined.So I haven't done it since

what a prick

If he was cracking on, and didn't have blue lights on, wasn't he also breaking the law?

(genuine question, I don't know how the law would apply here)

Was there a van or camera? If not how have you broken the law? You've just warned him of your presence, which is legal as far as I know, not tried to beat the camera surely?

Yes I know that's the topic, but you didn't mention one.

Edited by Short Grain on Tuesday 27th June 17:35

[Blakewater]

A speed limit was reduced from 70mph to 50mph near me partly because some new cycle route was made along the footpath at the side of the road and there was a school a field away (down an NSL side road).

One bank holiday evening when there was no school the camera van came out on the road for the first time to protect the school children who weren't there from all the holiday makers and daytrippers going home.

The woman and child on bicycles who were being protected from the menace of speeding actually sided with the motorists by both giving me and those following me the palm down slow gesture to warn of the van up the road.

[Boosted LS1]

The Mad Monk said:

Boosted LS1 said:

The Mad Monk said:

traffman said:

Do these so called camera safety vans actually contain Police in them? As far as i was aware they are civillians carrying out the work of the devil?

Just one more time.

The police are civilians.

We have a civilian police service in Britain.

But a civilian operator isn't a policeman.

Might be.

Will he have trained at Hendon? Or can anybody be a policeman now?

[Digby]

Still see it. Long may it continue.

This is the new sport, however..

[Pothole]

Davie said:

Odd isn't it, do this and the police almost burst a blood vessel and would have you hanged for denying them a few extra quid for the annual ball but stick some slightly mental old lady on a street armed with a hairdryer and she's hailed as being a national hero?

Oh dear

[vonhosen]

havoc said:

vonhosen said:

havoc said:

vonhosen said:

It's not treating everything as a nail, the hammer is only tasked to deal with nails (there are other means for problems that require screwing/sawing etc).

What are the statistics for drug-driving prosecutions?

How about the statistics for prosecuting / FPN'ing driving while using a handheld mobile phone? I probably see more people doing that on a typical journey than I do 'properly speeding' (i.e. clearly more than the 10% +2 rule-of-thumb).

Or how about statistics for dealing with middle-lane-morons?

I'd be interested in seeing how they compare to the number of FPNs* issued by the SCPs for speeding offences each year...

What's the relevance in regard to my statement?

There are more parking tickets than speeding tickets, so what?

The reasons you'll see more is that the offence is more prevalent & it's easier to gain evidence for as well has having a more efficient detection/prosecution process.

The relevance is that you said there are other means for dealing with other road traffic offences.

So I (effectively) asked what those means were and how effective were they?

Because from the perspective of the average driver (man in the Clapham Audi?), there seems to be a disproportionate amount of resources dedicated to enforcing speed limits compared to the other offences.

Or put another way, policing seems to be skewed towards what's EASY to do, not necessarily what's WORTHWHILE (i.e. benefit to society / road safety) to do. (Which JFK would see as backwards)

The other means are Police officers etc.

They aren't as effective at detecting/processing offences, because they are spread across many tasks (of course freeing them from speed enforcement measures they can then do more of the other stuff as they have one less task to do).

Camera partnerships aren't Police resources, they are funded differently. Just as parking tickets were taken from Police & given to Councils to deal with, resulting in an increase in ticket numbers, so it has happened with speeding offences. Separately funded dedicated units are going to be more efficient in the streamlining of detections/prosecutions (after all they are dedicated to a much narrower remit).

Very few Police resources do dedicated speed enforcement, a minuscule amount is done in addition to partnerships who are the main players for that offence (& red traffic lights).

[havoc]

vonhosen said:

Separately funded dedicated units are going to be more efficient in the streamlining of detections/prosecutions.

Especially when they get to keep the revenue from their prosecutions, eh?!? No conflict of interest there at all...

As for my questions about the number of prosecutions for the other offences, you've ducked that for a second time. Almost as if they weren't very high because no-one is really doing anything about them...

[vonhosen]

havoc said:

vonhosen said:

Separately funded dedicated units are going to be more efficient in the streamlining of detections/prosecutions.

Especially when they get to keep the revenue from their prosecutions, eh?!? No conflict of interest there at all...

As for my questions about the number of prosecutions for the other offences, you've ducked that for a second time. Almost as if they weren't very high because no-one is really doing anything about them...

You can look it up yourself.
I'm not sticking up the numbers for any offences (including speeding). I'd have to research it because I don't have them to hand myself, but you can do that yourself if you want to know it.

I'll tell you now though they'll be more than zero, less than than speeding & speeding will be less than parking offences.

Conflict of interests?
What's the conflict?
They are tasked to report people who they detect exceeding the limit by a margin.
They aren't fitting people up.

Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 27th June 19:34

[corozin]

Digby said:

Still see it. Long may it continue.

This is the new sport, however..

Yeah they put one of those up in Verwood 6-7 years ago and all the kids were trying to get 99mph on it so they took it down. No longer a mass speeding problem there BTW

[WJNB]

I make a point of NOT flashing white van drivers & self-important cocks in BMW & Audis.

[Dr Jekyll]

Johnnytheboy said:

If he was cracking on, and didn't have blue lights on, wasn't he also breaking the law?

(genuine question, I don't know how the law would apply here)

If the vehicle was being used for police purposes and it was 'necessary for that purpose' (IE the drivers boss agreed) then the exemption applies. Use of, or as far as I know even fitment of, blue lights is irrelevant.