RE: Jaguar XE SV Project 8 - official!
Discussion
I love it...
If it was my money, I would like the option of losing the wing and cage for some back seats with the accompanying lower starting price and lessening of ultimate on track ability.
This would be for me, strictly for the road ...
I still respect it as is tho...
Well done for making it and putting it into production JLR... for whatever reason!
If it was my money, I would like the option of losing the wing and cage for some back seats with the accompanying lower starting price and lessening of ultimate on track ability.
This would be for me, strictly for the road ...
I still respect it as is tho...
Well done for making it and putting it into production JLR... for whatever reason!
Ali_T said:
AshBurrows said:
The bumpers are hideous and the rear door line hilarious.
Absolutely gutted it's LHD only, limited and 4WD only. Genuinely hoped for a legit M3/63/QV competitor.
Same. I've held on for nearly a year but gave up on Jag and ordered a QV instead. Maybe Alfa will bring out a GTA version one day to make this look as stupid as it sounds. Absolutely gutted it's LHD only, limited and 4WD only. Genuinely hoped for a legit M3/63/QV competitor.
Quickmoose said:
Porsche911R said:
I am not sure it will fetch overs my self, they were not all pre sold either, you can prob still buy one today if you wish.
M4 GTS is about list and loads for sale. M4 DTM is a bit over but none selling 2nd hand, 6 from the 28 are for sale.
this is not a cool car as staring point, it's a 75 year old £48k fuddy duddy car, why bling that ?
Project 8 at £150k plus track pack is not a collectors car what ever spin one puts on it.
The 3 series wasn't cool when it started. The C-class certainly wasn't and I'm not sure is now eitherM4 GTS is about list and loads for sale. M4 DTM is a bit over but none selling 2nd hand, 6 from the 28 are for sale.
this is not a cool car as staring point, it's a 75 year old £48k fuddy duddy car, why bling that ?
Project 8 at £150k plus track pack is not a collectors car what ever spin one puts on it.
Show a picture of a 316 and non-one's going to go weak at the knees over it are they?
Labelling the XE as a 75 year old fuddy duddy car is short sighted and frankly stupid....a daft Clarkson-ism.
we all know where it comes from, the same place as rusty Italian and unreliable French, no-indicator BMWs, Audi-driving-cock etc etc...yawn.
Other than, yep, you'd have to be certifiable to spend that much on this
I'm afraid, at present, the XE is a old mans car - nothing to do with Clarkson-isms. Luke warm range toppers and bland styling don't help. They need a £60k M3/QV/C63 rival.
rtz62 said:
As some have said, if this was produced by Porsche or BMW there would be a lot more expressions of undying lust on here.
Yes it's heavy, yes the fear doors are possibly superfluous (so why not blend them in to the body, ditch the window and lock fittings and stick lexan in?) etc etc, but the subversive part of me wants to ask; if we achieve Brexit can we then stick 2 fingers up to the muesli-treading yoghurt-weavers from the EU and tell them where to stick their Euro 6 compliance?
Could we then build more cars like this, and have large capacity behemoths stalking the Queens Highways hunting down Emissions-fiddling VAG group cars?
Just a thought, as I vainly hoped that's what we would be able to do when I voted 'Leave'...
Back to my padded cell now...
No there wouldn't. The M4 GTS got just as much of a drubbing! Yes it's heavy, yes the fear doors are possibly superfluous (so why not blend them in to the body, ditch the window and lock fittings and stick lexan in?) etc etc, but the subversive part of me wants to ask; if we achieve Brexit can we then stick 2 fingers up to the muesli-treading yoghurt-weavers from the EU and tell them where to stick their Euro 6 compliance?
Could we then build more cars like this, and have large capacity behemoths stalking the Queens Highways hunting down Emissions-fiddling VAG group cars?
Just a thought, as I vainly hoped that's what we would be able to do when I voted 'Leave'...
Back to my padded cell now...
Quickmoose said:
They have no time for what Jag has been and hopefully will become again...
what has Jag been in the last 30 years ?, and what will they become again ?, still cars for 50+ years olds In the main.As for not looking at other men, it's easy to generalise at car events which give you a very clear idea who is buying what.
The F1 name in year 2000 was a massive flop also.
I see them as 50+ year old owners who cannot afford a Aston :-(
you see the odd f type (how did that weigh so much !!) at car events again it's the older gent.
I cannot remember the last cool Jag or a cool Jag in the last 30 years :-(
one has to go back to the 50's !! there was the XJ220 in 1988 and a lemans win in the late 80's
but for most people Jag is the E-Type and that's where it ended :-(
nothing to get young people into the brand sadly. esp not an XE !!!
Porsche911R said:
have you seen many 30 year olds in the Xe then ?
Given that the majority will be company cars, I'd imagine the buying demographic for the XE will be pretty much identical to that of the 3-series, A4 and C-class. I certainly see more people who look under 40 in them than who look over 60. Porsche911R said:
Quickmoose said:
They have no time for what Jag has been and hopefully will become again...
what has Jag been in the last 30 years ?, and what will they become again ?, still cars for 50+ years olds In the main.As for not looking at other men, it's easy to generalise at car events which give you a very clear idea who is buying what.
The F1 name in year 2000 was a massive flop also.
I see them as 50+ year old owners who cannot afford a Aston :-(
you see the odd f type (how did that weigh so much !!) at car events again it's the older gent.
I cannot remember the last cool Jag or a cool Jag in the last 30 years :-(
one has to go back to the 50's !! there was the XJ220 in 1988 and a lemans win in the late 80's
but for most people Jag is the E-Type and that's where it ended :-(
nothing to get young people into the brand sadly. esp not an XE !!!
Jags were great, they've had racing success (not F1) the youf love an F-type and the F-Pace
The XJ220 was a poster car. The E-type still is, it's heritage is pretty strong.
The last 30 years have represented piss poor management by Ford, all failed retro design on perceived weak platforms, wood and leather etc...cue Clarkson-ism and generation of "enthusiasts" shoving a label upon them.
Now JLR are creating beautifully restrained considered designs, (that SVO ruin imo) and the brand will hopefully recover.
Whilst the over 50's may well buy a lot of them, because they ride and 'feel' nicer than over damped and common German competition, as said the lower models will bring in the younger company car owners.
Seems to be working on the whole.
Design wise they represent to me a massive step ahead of the slashed surfaced, overly dramatic Germans and the Korean lead Maseratis.
Only Alfa share the same space imo.
I'm not sure why anyone would get excited by 80's BMWs and Mercedes fodder. Today as a classic or raw driving experience they're ok... but were never 'cool' when new.
The racing versions now as then were a different thing entirely built as a halo to bolster sales. And they did a grand job.
True though that Jag and Alfa need higher output models to fit between the entry level and headline grabbing versions...
labelling a newly released model as something for the elderly is funny though, perpetuating the urban myth. Just goes to show the job the marketing teams have to battle the easily lead public..
Edited by Quickmoose on Wednesday 28th June 18:41
rtz62 said:
As some have said, if this was produced by Porsche or BMW there would be a lot more expressions of undying lust on here.
Yes it's heavy, yes the fear doors are possibly superfluous (so why not blend them in to the body, ditch the window and lock fittings and stick lexan in?) etc etc, but the subversive part of me wants to ask; if we achieve Brexit can we then stick 2 fingers up to the muesli-treading yoghurt-weavers from the EU and tell them where to stick their Euro 6 compliance?
Could we then build more cars like this, and have large capacity behemoths stalking the Queens Highways hunting down Emissions-fiddling VAG group cars?
Just a thought, as I vainly hoped that's what we would be able to do when I voted 'Leave'...
Back to my padded cell now...
No - Quite the opposite. Every BMW and Porsche gets 1000 times more slatingYes it's heavy, yes the fear doors are possibly superfluous (so why not blend them in to the body, ditch the window and lock fittings and stick lexan in?) etc etc, but the subversive part of me wants to ask; if we achieve Brexit can we then stick 2 fingers up to the muesli-treading yoghurt-weavers from the EU and tell them where to stick their Euro 6 compliance?
Could we then build more cars like this, and have large capacity behemoths stalking the Queens Highways hunting down Emissions-fiddling VAG group cars?
Just a thought, as I vainly hoped that's what we would be able to do when I voted 'Leave'...
Back to my padded cell now...
Interesting thread
My tuppence worth:
JLR desperate to challenge the Germans, release a headline-grabbing big power variant.
However, because of a lack of resources (or economies of scale) the end product appears a little half-baked.
I'm sure it's fun to drive but more fun than the cheaper and more desirable competitors? Who knows.
There's a lot of talk about 'collectors' buying this. Really? Collectors?
If you're in the business of collecting rare and desirable cars, would you honestly want this effort? It's not pretty, it won't be quicker than its rivals and it's based on a flawed premise "an XE track car'. It will never stack up as a proper track car due to its weight and does not have the kudos of being a homologation special (unless a race car is announced subsequently). At 300 units it's not even that rare.
It will doubtless appeal to some die-hard Jag enthusiasts but how many?
The Project 7 was also a heavy old beast but at least it was based on a sexy sports car and had some distinctive styling.
So where does that leave it?
Speculators might have a look but given it's drawbacks it's unlikely to deliver a quick return. Wait 20 years and who knows, but speculators will want to flip it in 20 days.
That leaves the Middle East & China. Not exactly the bastions of good taste but there is gold in them there hills.
I personally wish Jaguar would play to their strengths rather than doggedly trying to match the Germans. Grace, pace & space etc.
If they could match the pace of the AMG and Audi RS's and retain a certain elegance (without the Halfords bodykit) it would be much cooler.
In my eyes at least.
As ever, I could be completely wide of the mark.
jl34 said:
" dont have the expertise" ????
What a load of rubbish!, British engineers pioneered the use of Carbon fibre in Industry so i'm very sure JLR engineers could easily create bespoke part's made from Titanium, light alloy and composites.
The reality is JLR do not have the finances to fund a probably loss making project with new bespoke tooling just to save a few kilo's that nobody will notice on the road. Its got nothing to do with expertise. They will be forced to use a greater number of carry over components than much larger companies like Daimler and VAG group, everything from HVAC systems to bracketry will be carried over in order to make the project feasible.
As has been pointed out AMG Merc'ss are no lighter and this car has a heavy 4 wheel drive system. Really narks me when people start knocking our engineers and don't understand the economics a comparatively small company like JLR have to contend with.
Expertise is probably the wrong word, anyone can make something light by using carbon fibre or titanium. You can make something light by applying drillium to it. But such things are expensive.What a load of rubbish!, British engineers pioneered the use of Carbon fibre in Industry so i'm very sure JLR engineers could easily create bespoke part's made from Titanium, light alloy and composites.
The reality is JLR do not have the finances to fund a probably loss making project with new bespoke tooling just to save a few kilo's that nobody will notice on the road. Its got nothing to do with expertise. They will be forced to use a greater number of carry over components than much larger companies like Daimler and VAG group, everything from HVAC systems to bracketry will be carried over in order to make the project feasible.
As has been pointed out AMG Merc'ss are no lighter and this car has a heavy 4 wheel drive system. Really narks me when people start knocking our engineers and don't understand the economics a comparatively small company like JLR have to contend with.
The trick is making something light out of plastic, for about 50p while retaining perceived quality and durability. If you've been selling 200,000 units of a model you have the engineering budget to optimise all the mundane parts of the car for potential weight reductions, go out into the supply chain and develop bespoke solutions for your larger production run.
If you are lower volume you just have to take it or leave it. Also the high volume bit of JLR is arguably less weight sensitive.
Intriguing comments throughout this thread, here are some of my thoughts on the key points raised so far.
Weight: Cars are getting heavier and a 4-door saloon is always going to be heavier than a 2-seater coupe, as is a 600bhp, 516ft lb, supercharged V8 engine compared to a 4-500bhp twin-turbo 6-cylinder engine. Add in 4WD to the mix and the provisional 1745kg kerb weight (with fluids) isn't too shabby. The next lightest 600bhp 4-door saloon I can find listed in the back of evo is 1880kg and the heaviest is 2400kg..
Why? Because a 200mph, 600bhp XE is going to be huge fun, simple as that. Who wouldn't enjoy terrorising GT3s at a track day in a 4-door Jaguar XE? Yes, it's expensive but then a highly bespoke car, produced in tiny numbers is always going to be expensive. But on the plus side these limited run cars often have their own distinctive character and a production run of 300, on a global scale, is tiny. That's why cars like this often tend to keep their value so well.
Summing up, car enthusiasts have never had it so good, there's lots of truly great performance cars out there right now, Jaguar launching a limited run of 300 Project8 is simply offering (wealthy) enthusiasts another new and exciting option.
Weight: Cars are getting heavier and a 4-door saloon is always going to be heavier than a 2-seater coupe, as is a 600bhp, 516ft lb, supercharged V8 engine compared to a 4-500bhp twin-turbo 6-cylinder engine. Add in 4WD to the mix and the provisional 1745kg kerb weight (with fluids) isn't too shabby. The next lightest 600bhp 4-door saloon I can find listed in the back of evo is 1880kg and the heaviest is 2400kg..
Why? Because a 200mph, 600bhp XE is going to be huge fun, simple as that. Who wouldn't enjoy terrorising GT3s at a track day in a 4-door Jaguar XE? Yes, it's expensive but then a highly bespoke car, produced in tiny numbers is always going to be expensive. But on the plus side these limited run cars often have their own distinctive character and a production run of 300, on a global scale, is tiny. That's why cars like this often tend to keep their value so well.
Summing up, car enthusiasts have never had it so good, there's lots of truly great performance cars out there right now, Jaguar launching a limited run of 300 Project8 is simply offering (wealthy) enthusiasts another new and exciting option.
There's a staggering amount of negativity here for a car that I think I can safely say no-one here has physically seen, heard, or driven. Some very big aspects of forming an opinion of a car. I would put strong money on anyone strapped into a passenger seat and taken somewhere like up Goodwood hill in one that when they extricate themselves from the car, the first thing on their mind isn't going to be how much the car weighs.
We should be grateful that the thing exists in the first place - the world needs more irrational, just-for-the-fun-of-it cars. I'm sick to death of 2.0 four-pot turbos in every performance car being launched, now here's something that will be truly dramatic. Let's enjoy them while we can still have them.
We should be grateful that the thing exists in the first place - the world needs more irrational, just-for-the-fun-of-it cars. I'm sick to death of 2.0 four-pot turbos in every performance car being launched, now here's something that will be truly dramatic. Let's enjoy them while we can still have them.
M4SER said:
Intriguing comments throughout this thread, here are some of my thoughts on the key points raised so far.
Weight: Cars are getting heavier and a 4-door saloon is always going to be heavier than a 2-seater coupe, as is a 600bhp, 516ft lb, supercharged V8 engine compared to a 4-500bhp twin-turbo 6-cylinder engine. Add in 4WD to the mix and the provisional 1745kg kerb weight (with fluids) isn't too shabby. The next lightest 600bhp 4-door saloon I can find listed in the back of evo is 1880kg and the heaviest is 2400kg..
Why? Because a 200mph, 600bhp XE is going to be huge fun, simple as that. Who wouldn't enjoy terrorising GT3s at a track day in a 4-door Jaguar XE? Yes, it's expensive but then a highly bespoke car, produced in tiny numbers is always going to be expensive. But on the plus side these limited run cars often have their own distinctive character and a production run of 300, on a global scale, is tiny. That's why cars like this often tend to keep their value so well.
Summing up, car enthusiasts have never had it so good, there's lots of truly great performance cars out there right now, Jaguar launching a limited run of 300 Project8 is simply offering (wealthy) enthusiasts another new and exciting option.
I for one commend the combination of lunacy and attention to detail involved in producing a 200mph XE. It sounds absolutely ridiculous- in a good way. If it furthers the name of SVO and jaguar then as others have said purely as a halo/ PR exercise it's a job well done. Weight: Cars are getting heavier and a 4-door saloon is always going to be heavier than a 2-seater coupe, as is a 600bhp, 516ft lb, supercharged V8 engine compared to a 4-500bhp twin-turbo 6-cylinder engine. Add in 4WD to the mix and the provisional 1745kg kerb weight (with fluids) isn't too shabby. The next lightest 600bhp 4-door saloon I can find listed in the back of evo is 1880kg and the heaviest is 2400kg..
Why? Because a 200mph, 600bhp XE is going to be huge fun, simple as that. Who wouldn't enjoy terrorising GT3s at a track day in a 4-door Jaguar XE? Yes, it's expensive but then a highly bespoke car, produced in tiny numbers is always going to be expensive. But on the plus side these limited run cars often have their own distinctive character and a production run of 300, on a global scale, is tiny. That's why cars like this often tend to keep their value so well.
Summing up, car enthusiasts have never had it so good, there's lots of truly great performance cars out there right now, Jaguar launching a limited run of 300 Project8 is simply offering (wealthy) enthusiasts another new and exciting option.
I suspect there will be at least 300 well heeled enthusiastic amateur Racers who want something different to the usual track day special suspects who will pony up for one.
I'm not the target market for the car at all. But just to offer a counter balance to the "jags are for old duffers" line propagated earlier in the thread I'm 36 and have a 6 year old XFR. It's a brilliant combo of exec saloon and mentalist hot rod but it's getting long in the tooth and I really do hope they hurry up and bring out a next gen XF with a V8. If this car keeps the beards at SVO in work and pays enough bills to get them onto the next few projects then it's a thumbs up from me.
[quote. M4SER]
Why? Because a 200mph, 600bhp XE is going to be huge fun, simple as that. Who wouldn't enjoy terrorising GT3s at a track day in a 4-door Jaguar XE? Yes, it's expensive but then a highly bespoke car, produced in tiny numbers is always going to be expensive.
Summing up, car enthusiasts have never had it so good, there's lots of truly great performance cars out there right now, Jaguar launching a limited run of 300 Project8 is simply offering (wealthy) enthusiasts another new and exciting option.
[/quote]
This makes a lot of sense
Why? Because a 200mph, 600bhp XE is going to be huge fun, simple as that. Who wouldn't enjoy terrorising GT3s at a track day in a 4-door Jaguar XE? Yes, it's expensive but then a highly bespoke car, produced in tiny numbers is always going to be expensive.
Summing up, car enthusiasts have never had it so good, there's lots of truly great performance cars out there right now, Jaguar launching a limited run of 300 Project8 is simply offering (wealthy) enthusiasts another new and exciting option.
[/quote]
This makes a lot of sense
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