RE: Jaguar XE SV Project 8 - official!
Discussion
I always find this debate on vehicle mass interesting. People seem to automatically assume that Jags are heavier than their competition, and whilst that has in some instances been the case, it's not actually as big a difference as you think. That C63 someone else has quoted above for instance is also over 1,700kg! It may be a special edition, but the Project 8 isn't pretending to be a lightweight special. There's very little in it that's trying to be light weight. A roll cage adds more than taking the rear seats out removes, it still has glass windows, and it also now has a whopping great V8 and AWD drivetrain.
The reality is that modern safety regulations make it next to impossible to make a C segment car that's any lighter than around 1,500kg. Even a base spec Merc C-Class is 1,450kg which is actually 25kg heavier than the equivalent Jag XE. A really telling thing is that the new BMW M3 GT4 race car (which has absolutely no interior, plexiglass windows and a carbon bonnet) is still around 1,400kg. The body structure of a modern car has to be so robust that once you add a 4WD transmission and V8 engine and it's associated radiators, you're not going to get anywhere close to even 1,500kg which people on here would still probably say is too heavy.
At the end of the day, it's going to be an excellent car. To me it seems the same people who on one thread constantly moan about how nothing since 2002 has appealed and 'why can't someone just make a simple V8 powered sports saloon anymore' are on here saying 'yeah but it's not £16,995, manual with cross plies and no cat'. I suspect if someone made exactly that, there'd still be something to moan about. Enjoy it whilst it's here. Pretty much no one one here will drive or own one, but thank god it exists.
The reality is that modern safety regulations make it next to impossible to make a C segment car that's any lighter than around 1,500kg. Even a base spec Merc C-Class is 1,450kg which is actually 25kg heavier than the equivalent Jag XE. A really telling thing is that the new BMW M3 GT4 race car (which has absolutely no interior, plexiglass windows and a carbon bonnet) is still around 1,400kg. The body structure of a modern car has to be so robust that once you add a 4WD transmission and V8 engine and it's associated radiators, you're not going to get anywhere close to even 1,500kg which people on here would still probably say is too heavy.
At the end of the day, it's going to be an excellent car. To me it seems the same people who on one thread constantly moan about how nothing since 2002 has appealed and 'why can't someone just make a simple V8 powered sports saloon anymore' are on here saying 'yeah but it's not £16,995, manual with cross plies and no cat'. I suspect if someone made exactly that, there'd still be something to moan about. Enjoy it whilst it's here. Pretty much no one one here will drive or own one, but thank god it exists.
Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 28th June 15:01
High Roller said:
I think some people are knocking it BECAUSE they're car enthusiasts. This is just a money making exercise by Jaguar... pure and simple.
I'd agree with you, except it's not going to sell enough units to turn any discernible profit. I'd expect there'll be a hot, mainstream version along shortly, which can have accompanying press releases using phrases like "...technology used in the £150,000 Project 8..." and "...brakes developed for the track and used on the sensational Project 8..."Etc Etc.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The actual weight of the body in white is about 10-15% of the weight of the car. If you want to get weight out of the car it's all about attention to detail on components. The MX5 is probably the best example of this being a straight 500kg lighter than an F-Type with the same size engine.Jaguar evidently don't have the time or inclination to do this as there probably isn't a strong correlation to weight reduction and sales.
M4SER said:
Kenny Powers said:
Bespoke rear doors is a big deal from an engineering perspective. The door lines at Solihull are not capable of producing aluminium items, and definitely not ones of a different shape. Either these are reworked and reskinned standard rear doors, or they are fabricating them in an entire custom facility. There goes most of the £150k right there.
The different rear quarter bodyside is more likely to fit through the standard lines, but also more likely to be custom reworked after the standard body-in-white is complete. I can guarantee that the majority of the exotic price tag for this vehicle comes from the custom bodywork and doors.
Project8 is going to be hand built from the wheels up at SVO's new facility at Oxford Road, not along the regular XE production line. .The different rear quarter bodyside is more likely to fit through the standard lines, but also more likely to be custom reworked after the standard body-in-white is complete. I can guarantee that the majority of the exotic price tag for this vehicle comes from the custom bodywork and doors.
" dont have the expertise" ????
What a load of rubbish!, British engineers pioneered the use of Carbon fibre in Industry so i'm very sure JLR engineers could easily create bespoke part's made from Titanium, light alloy and composites.
The reality is JLR do not have the finances to fund a probably loss making project with new bespoke tooling just to save a few kilo's that nobody will notice on the road. Its got nothing to do with expertise. They will be forced to use a greater number of carry over components than much larger companies like Daimler and VAG group, everything from HVAC systems to bracketry will be carried over in order to make the project feasible.
As has been pointed out AMG Merc'ss are no lighter and this car has a heavy 4 wheel drive system. Really narks me when people start knocking our engineers and don't understand the economics a comparatively small company like JLR have to contend with.
What a load of rubbish!, British engineers pioneered the use of Carbon fibre in Industry so i'm very sure JLR engineers could easily create bespoke part's made from Titanium, light alloy and composites.
The reality is JLR do not have the finances to fund a probably loss making project with new bespoke tooling just to save a few kilo's that nobody will notice on the road. Its got nothing to do with expertise. They will be forced to use a greater number of carry over components than much larger companies like Daimler and VAG group, everything from HVAC systems to bracketry will be carried over in order to make the project feasible.
As has been pointed out AMG Merc'ss are no lighter and this car has a heavy 4 wheel drive system. Really narks me when people start knocking our engineers and don't understand the economics a comparatively small company like JLR have to contend with.
That looks unforgivably awful.
I don't get Jaguar - the Germans are all making terrible looking cars and really terrible looking SUVs, and Jaguar copy them... There's a massive hole in the market for someone to make a nice range of saloon cars, and instead tat like this comes out.
Being excited about a car just because it has some biggish numbers (and an even bigger price tag) doesn't ring true with me anymore.
I don't get Jaguar - the Germans are all making terrible looking cars and really terrible looking SUVs, and Jaguar copy them... There's a massive hole in the market for someone to make a nice range of saloon cars, and instead tat like this comes out.
Being excited about a car just because it has some biggish numbers (and an even bigger price tag) doesn't ring true with me anymore.
Amazed by the price, the US are coming out with cars like the GT350R and ZL1 1LE that seem to be as capable if not more for under half the price. It might all be down to limited numbers and badge but its just ridiculous in my eyes that the price point is so high for European challengers.
GranCab said:
Ohh look - a 600+ BHP 4 door 4WD saloon (also available in RHD) for circa £90K - sorry Jag you are late to the party.
In my view... massively more desirable and classy. Buy this and a track focused Lotus for a lot more enjoyment!Why would you want to spend £150k on a track focused XE??
Jaguar, please concentrate on;
- Bigger engine range
- Better interior quality (I was genuinely appalled at F-Pace plastics when the price tag was pushing £60k)
- Expand ranges - Estates, trendy 'all-road' versions, coupe (4-series rival) in time scales not comparable with glacier movement
- F-Type with genuine driver appeal without the need to put a V8 in it.
CambsBill said:
JLR don't have a wind tunnel??? Can someone explain to a non-engineer why not? Is this normal nowadays and everything's done using CFD or should they have spent a few quid on what used to be an essential part of car design, I honestly don't know.
Blindingly obvious. There are ones available to hire close by"Form follows function", except that it's a massively compromised, heavy, saloon car fitted with an absence of rear seats a "harness hoop" - yet its function is to go fast around tracks.
I think these kind of projects are excellent for the engineers to explore and develop and potentially trickle down some of the learning and innovation, but it's actually a load of b
ks really, isn't it?
Yes I'm delighted there's another v8 saloon, but it's not a saloon, it's a two seater.
And a Jag only available in lhd- that says a lot about "our" car industry :-(
I think these kind of projects are excellent for the engineers to explore and develop and potentially trickle down some of the learning and innovation, but it's actually a load of b
ks really, isn't it? Yes I'm delighted there's another v8 saloon, but it's not a saloon, it's a two seater.
And a Jag only available in lhd- that says a lot about "our" car industry :-(
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