Driving on the motorway/ Keeping left
Discussion
I travelled down the M5 near Worcester 10 days ago after what seems like about 3-4 years of roadworks the cones are finally up, woot.
And a decent section is now 4 lanes wide... so that means the trucks now have 1-2 to themselves, all the vans, carvanners, coaches and morons have moved out to 3 and the cars are all stuck in 4 doing 60mph nose-to-tail.
Some progress. I guess it's safer for the truckers at least not having all the morons and motorhomes in thier lane.
And a decent section is now 4 lanes wide... so that means the trucks now have 1-2 to themselves, all the vans, carvanners, coaches and morons have moved out to 3 and the cars are all stuck in 4 doing 60mph nose-to-tail.
Some progress. I guess it's safer for the truckers at least not having all the morons and motorhomes in thier lane.
smit8361 said:
This has hit the nail on the head. EDUCATION.!! How you can go out and get your license without even driving on the motorway is absurd. The fastest roads in the country and you can your license without even setting foot on them. Before you get a license we should have mandatory amount of time on a motorway so people can learn proper rules and lane discipline. Until this becomes part of learning and even part of driving test things won't get any better.
And just how long do you propose a driving lesson in, say, Norfolk should last?In countries where lane discipline is very good (France and Germany come to mind), a fair bit of the 'education' comes from other drivers. Even if you do a bit of a slow overtake in France, never mind pointlessly staying in the outside lane with nothing else about, within seconds there will be an ageing Citroen inches from your back bumper with its left indicator on. The Germans seem to prefer the massive differential speed with very late braking, followed by some main beam headlamp use.
If people cruise by on the left instead of encouraging the lane hogs to get in the correct lane, the lane hog thinks what they are doing is correct. I got stuck behind a van permanently in the middle lane on the M1 last night for about 50 miles (I had a trailer, so couldn't use the outside lane or go particularly fast). The van was varying in speed between about 55 and 75 and weaving about using all of the width of the middle lane. In that time, only about 5 cars flashed their lights at it. The van eventually did go into the left hand lane, but only after another van driver (from a well known large company and advertised as being fitted with a 70mph speed limiter) completely lost his rag after he had been overtaken and blocked for the third time and gave it the full road rage, including obscene gestures out of both driver and passenger side windows!!
The only areas in the UK with good discipline are the A1M north of York and the M6 north of Preston. Both have pretty low numbers of middle and outside lane hogs, and drivers there also seem more likely to flash cars in front holding them up.
If people cruise by on the left instead of encouraging the lane hogs to get in the correct lane, the lane hog thinks what they are doing is correct. I got stuck behind a van permanently in the middle lane on the M1 last night for about 50 miles (I had a trailer, so couldn't use the outside lane or go particularly fast). The van was varying in speed between about 55 and 75 and weaving about using all of the width of the middle lane. In that time, only about 5 cars flashed their lights at it. The van eventually did go into the left hand lane, but only after another van driver (from a well known large company and advertised as being fitted with a 70mph speed limiter) completely lost his rag after he had been overtaken and blocked for the third time and gave it the full road rage, including obscene gestures out of both driver and passenger side windows!!
The only areas in the UK with good discipline are the A1M north of York and the M6 north of Preston. Both have pretty low numbers of middle and outside lane hogs, and drivers there also seem more likely to flash cars in front holding them up.
exelero said:
It's been a while since I did a long motorway run, but last weekend I was heading to London on Friday morning. Now I understand there is usually heavy traffic especially on the M25 and on the M1 South and Northbound but I observed loads of drivers who don't give a toss about keeping left, I think we call them Middle lane idiots on here. I also understand that when there is congestion the smart screen tells you to stay in lane, but what I could see from my view is if everyone kept left there would be no congestion at all? Lane 1 and 2 was faster than lane 3-4 in fact lane 3 was empty and the safety car was a Taxi in lane 4 at 60 mph. I know it's not nice to flash people, but can't we just use the outside lane for overtaking? Last year I noticed the same on the M6 that the outside lane from the 2 was stuck with ppl travelling at 55-60 mph but couldn't overtake, yet in the inside lane was me and... well me only. What is going on? Is it that easy to get a driving licence, or just no one is bothered about everyone else?
GET OUT OF THE OUTSIDE LANE!!!
I know....it's utterly depressing coming back from a Holiday where driving is normal, social, stress free activity.....to the M25 & A12 cretins.GET OUT OF THE OUTSIDE LANE!!!
TarpaTow said:
I agree most people can't drive.
As a BM driver I'm probably more aware of it than drivers of other cars, and probably you, as they're obviously not in as quick cars. As a finance guy in the financial heart of the country, I spend a lot of time on M3, M25 and M4, mainly in the fast lane as I'm invariably on my way to important meetings with influential clients who aren't going to be impressed if I'm late. Time's money in business, ask any successful entrepreneur.
When I started driving a few years ago, I'd always move out of the way for things like BMs and Lamborghinis as you knew they were being piloted by people with important things to do.
Now I've managed to get seated in a BM myself it's obvious they just don't realise what's right behind them, surely the 2 kidney grilles are enough to project exactly what's behind them. Why can't they get out of the way, even headlamps full on don't make much difference. It's really frustrating that people driving normal white goods stuff, like Fords, Vauxhalls, old blokes in Jags etc, cars which aren't decent performance cars, think they've got the power to just remain in the fast lane.
BMs are specifically designed to be run at high speed on continental motorways, other cars aren't, so why don't their drivers accept this. It needs a FB campaign.
A bit like lanes for cars with 2 or more occupants, they ought to only allow certain performance models in the fast lane, like BMs, Lambos, Ferraris etc. Easy to control with cameras.
For more of this, see this piece of film.As a BM driver I'm probably more aware of it than drivers of other cars, and probably you, as they're obviously not in as quick cars. As a finance guy in the financial heart of the country, I spend a lot of time on M3, M25 and M4, mainly in the fast lane as I'm invariably on my way to important meetings with influential clients who aren't going to be impressed if I'm late. Time's money in business, ask any successful entrepreneur.
When I started driving a few years ago, I'd always move out of the way for things like BMs and Lamborghinis as you knew they were being piloted by people with important things to do.
Now I've managed to get seated in a BM myself it's obvious they just don't realise what's right behind them, surely the 2 kidney grilles are enough to project exactly what's behind them. Why can't they get out of the way, even headlamps full on don't make much difference. It's really frustrating that people driving normal white goods stuff, like Fords, Vauxhalls, old blokes in Jags etc, cars which aren't decent performance cars, think they've got the power to just remain in the fast lane.
BMs are specifically designed to be run at high speed on continental motorways, other cars aren't, so why don't their drivers accept this. It needs a FB campaign.
A bit like lanes for cars with 2 or more occupants, they ought to only allow certain performance models in the fast lane, like BMs, Lambos, Ferraris etc. Easy to control with cameras.
Recently went on a 6 week trip round Europe. The difference in lane discipline throughout several European countries compared to Blighty is ridiculous. I left Dover with 200ish miles. Judging by previous euro standards that's 3 hours. It took 6. That's was leaving Dover at 2100.
Roads are crap, road works in several places where nobody understands the term "merge in turn" and endless lane hoggers.
In Europe I barely had to touch the cruise control, mainly to reduce speed so that someone faster could get past before I pulled out.
In the UK it was easier to leave it off. For the first time in those 6 weeks my back started to really hurt just due to clutch use.
Roads are crap, road works in several places where nobody understands the term "merge in turn" and endless lane hoggers.
In Europe I barely had to touch the cruise control, mainly to reduce speed so that someone faster could get past before I pulled out.
In the UK it was easier to leave it off. For the first time in those 6 weeks my back started to really hurt just due to clutch use.
Tit For Tat said:
give them the universal w
ker sign after pulling back in front.
... and by doing so you play right into their hands because it proves to them they have succeeded in annoying somebody. They win you lose.ker sign after pulling back in front.Most lane hoggers know EXACTLY what they are doing & it helps pass the time, more so if they are life's losers & always the underdog minion nothing nobody employee, if they have a job at all.
Take the intelligent tack by using your head to get into theirs - effectively ignore them because they hate that as it rubs it in that they are nobody & thus invisible.
I'll take my chances with Plod & I WILL undertake but slowly & without making sudden moves & NEVERV EVER making any gestures.
On a sililiar subject, on the A90 near Aberdeen we are down to 50 during road works with average speed cameras fitted, perhaps a 4 mile stretch, there is always one arrogant twunt doing 50 in L2 keeping up with another in L1, with a line of cars behind him, but nothing in front or behind the car in L1, OK it's 50 but there are some who wish pass them at a few miles over.
One today managed to pace the other car until we reached the 40 zone, where he sped up passing the car in L1 and pulled into L1.
So fekking inconsiderate self rightness buggers.
One today managed to pace the other car until we reached the 40 zone, where he sped up passing the car in L1 and pulled into L1.
So fekking inconsiderate self rightness buggers.
mybrainhurts said:
Prohibiting said:
Hainey said:
Boosted LS1 said:
Shore said:
That's where the old undertake and brake test come into play. Ronnie Pickering would do the same.
Who's he?ker legend! 
Fat knob in a Picasso. Top entertainment!
exelero said:
I work at a Haulage company at the moment, and talked to the drivers about it, and they all say the same. The best was "No one should drive slower on a motorway than a lorry"
I hear a lot of drivers say this, but it is bks (the idiot HGV drivers equivalent of 'HGVs shouldn't be allowed to overtake on two lane dual carriageways'). People may drive at 50mph if they wish and it isn't an inconvenience worthy of mention for HGV drivers. What is an issue is the idiots who speed up when you start to overtake them and the imbeciles who populate the second lane.smiley_boy2501 said:
Recently went on a 6 week trip round Europe. The difference in lane discipline throughout several European countries compared to Blighty is ridiculous. I left Dover with 200ish miles. Judging by previous euro standards that's 3 hours. It took 6. That's was leaving Dover at 2100.
Roads are crap, road works in several places where nobody understands the term "merge in turn" and endless lane hoggers.
In Europe I barely had to touch the cruise control, mainly to reduce speed so that someone faster could get past before I pulled out.
In the UK it was easier to leave it off. For the first time in those 6 weeks my back started to really hurt just due to clutch use.
That being said it's still a close run thing whether I'd rather drive here or in Belgium!Roads are crap, road works in several places where nobody understands the term "merge in turn" and endless lane hoggers.
In Europe I barely had to touch the cruise control, mainly to reduce speed so that someone faster could get past before I pulled out.
In the UK it was easier to leave it off. For the first time in those 6 weeks my back started to really hurt just due to clutch use.
There's an old saying about making something foolproof, but never managing to make it idiot proof.
The keep left rule is a textbook example.
But, there are plenty of:
Message boards by the side of the road to display a keep left message.
Overhead gantries that can be configused to a left arrow.
CCTV cameras that could be used to provide the proof where people deliberately hog a lane a long time after any excuses about over taking have lapsed.
60 seconds in an empty lane nowhere near a junction and with nothing to your left should be ample for any legitimate excuse.. Then s warning on first offence, followed by a means tested fine to pay for the enforcement costs.
It will take about a month of facebook publicity on fines, before the people guilty of this start to comply..
The keep left rule is a textbook example.
But, there are plenty of:
Message boards by the side of the road to display a keep left message.
Overhead gantries that can be configused to a left arrow.
CCTV cameras that could be used to provide the proof where people deliberately hog a lane a long time after any excuses about over taking have lapsed.
60 seconds in an empty lane nowhere near a junction and with nothing to your left should be ample for any legitimate excuse.. Then s warning on first offence, followed by a means tested fine to pay for the enforcement costs.
It will take about a month of facebook publicity on fines, before the people guilty of this start to comply..
Edited by Hol on Friday 30th June 06:56
Strudul said:
If there is absolutely nobody else on the road in sight, I tend to ignore lanes and just drive the shortest path possible.
E.g.
on a 3 lane motorway doing this move surely your brain is telling you not to "clip the apex" on a 1/4 mile sweeping bend cos youd be driving like a bell? wheres the saving? its not formula one. E.g.
Edited by Strudul on Thursday 29th June 01:13
empty typical country road then maybe cut it slightly (racing line) but this is the first time I have ever heard a driver say they do this on a motorway....its actually quite moronic but I would like to know the reason for such driving ........surely it takes more mental awareness to do that move than just stick to your nice empty clear lane rather than really checking those mirrors and blindspots before you cut the corners and stray out of the lane across the path of the others? maybe this is a move for the special drivers.
ToothbrushMan said:
Strudul said:
If there is absolutely nobody else on the road in sight, I tend to ignore lanes and just drive the shortest path possible.
E.g.
on a 3 lane motorway doing this move surely your brain is telling you not to "clip the apex" on a 1/4 mile sweeping bend cos youd be driving like a bell? wheres the saving? its not formula one. E.g.
Edited by Strudul on Thursday 29th June 01:13
empty typical country road then maybe cut it slightly (racing line) but this is the first time I have ever heard a driver say they do this on a motorway....its actually quite moronic but I would like to know the reason for such driving ........surely it takes more mental awareness to do that move than just stick to your nice empty clear lane rather than really checking those mirrors and blindspots before you cut the corners and stray out of the lane across the path of the others? maybe this is a move for the special drivers.
What part of his first sentence did you not understand ????
ToothbrushMan said:
.......surely it takes more mental awareness to do that move than just stick to your nice empty clear lane.
Surely that's the point, it increases satisfaction and maintains concentration. haven't done it myself, but if the road really is empty I don't see a problem, no different from straightlining a roundabout.ToothbrushMan said:
Strudul said:
If there is absolutely nobody else on the road in sight, I tend to ignore lanes and just drive the shortest path possible.
E.g.
on a 3 lane motorway doing this move surely your brain is telling you not to "clip the apex" on a 1/4 mile sweeping bend cos youd be driving like a bell? wheres the saving? its not formula one. E.g.
Edited by Strudul on Thursday 29th June 01:13
empty typical country road then maybe cut it slightly (racing line) but this is the first time I have ever heard a driver say they do this on a motorway....its actually quite moronic but I would like to know the reason for such driving ........surely it takes more mental awareness to do that move than just stick to your nice empty clear lane rather than really checking those mirrors and blindspots before you cut the corners and stray out of the lane across the path of the others? maybe this is a move for the special drivers.
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