RE: Cars we won't regret going electric: Speed Matters
Discussion
RayTay said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
Again:
The electricity it takes to PRODUCE one gallon of petrol could charge an EV for roughly 20 miles.
The more EV's = less petrol engines = less fuel being refined = no additional strain on the grid.
It is amazing how much that does not sink in. Also pollution in cities ruining lungs and making building filthy. None of these register with many. The electricity it takes to PRODUCE one gallon of petrol could charge an EV for roughly 20 miles.
The more EV's = less petrol engines = less fuel being refined = no additional strain on the grid.
Defconluke said:
An electric vehicle would be perfect for the sort of drving I regularly do however it's not so much the range that worries me with an electric car but the logistics of being able to charge it at home.
If (like me) you live on a busy street and especially if you do shift work then being able to get parked even remotely close to where you live can be a lottery. You can't run an extenstion lead across a busy road or down the street & round the corner very easily (especially from a 2nd floor flat) and parking spaces are irregularly sized because people drive cars of all shapes and sizes so placing a charging station every so often isn't going to be practical. With a current ICE vehicle I can park wherever there is a space and not have to worry about the logistics of being able to refuel it for a week or longer if needs be regardless of where or when I need to drive somewhere.
Have a look at Ubitricity for those with no driveway. Fully Charged on youtube explains it well. Seems a good solution. If (like me) you live on a busy street and especially if you do shift work then being able to get parked even remotely close to where you live can be a lottery. You can't run an extenstion lead across a busy road or down the street & round the corner very easily (especially from a 2nd floor flat) and parking spaces are irregularly sized because people drive cars of all shapes and sizes so placing a charging station every so often isn't going to be practical. With a current ICE vehicle I can park wherever there is a space and not have to worry about the logistics of being able to refuel it for a week or longer if needs be regardless of where or when I need to drive somewhere.
Cold said:
Which one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQpX-9OyEr4The three UK refineries used in one year:
- 5,600 gWh of electricity to refine oil.
- That is 5,642,000,000 kWh
- One gallon refined used 4.5 kWh of electricity
- 5,642,000,000 kWh is enough electricity to propel 23,000,0000 EVs to drive 20 trillion miles.
Edited by RayTay on Friday 14th July 10:19
RayTay said:
bodhi said:
I have no interest in a silent car
I have and about 90% of the population. You may have but the wider market has very little interest.
Their market is defined by price. Nothing more, nothing less. Noise level plays no role whatsoever in the purchasing decisions of the general public.
Clattery diesels, over rubbers tyres, exhaust not silenced to their true capability.
It's all about the money and absolutely nothing else. And that's why EVs can only ever become mainstream and viable when they are cheaper than ICE. Then the 90% you speak for and represent will switch overnight.
DonkeyApple said:
That's simply not true.
It is very true. Most people welcome silent cars, trucks, taxis and buses, etc. They all know that when mass production comes like to the level of IC cars, the price will drop. It has to as there are far, far fewer parts in an EV. No one wants pollution and noise. You obviously do. But there is always one.Many have done the figures and going for EVs as the overall costs are lower. London is crawling with hybrids and EVs. By your twisted logic these people driving all these battery powered cars do not know what they are doing and cannot count.
Edited by RayTay on Friday 14th July 11:03
RayTay said:
DonkeyApple said:
That's simply not true.
It is very true. Most people welcome silent cars, trucks, taxis and buses, etc. They all know that when mass production comes like to the level of IC cars, the price will drop. It has to as there are far, far fewer parts in an EV. No one wants pollution and noise. You obviously do. But there is always one.Many have done the figures and going for EVs as the overall costs are lower. London is crawling with hybrids and EVs. By your twisted logic these people driving all these battery powered cars do not know what they are doing and cannot count.
Edited by RayTay on Friday 14th July 11:03
London only has hybrids due to the taxation situation and legislation. It's about the money.
Most people may welcome many things but whether they do anything about any of them depends on the cost.
The problem you have being a religious zealot is that like all such nutters you cannot handle constructive conversation or debate and view anyone who doesn't fervently agree with you as being the devil.
Hence why you are now claiming I obviously want pollution and noise as your basis for discussion. You are obviously wrong on that front. As you well know, I not only have not said that but I am pro EV.
You are wrong that the overall costs of EV ownership are lower than ICE. They are not. That is why even with tax benefits and legislation the masses are not yet buying them.
In fact, the only thing you are right about is your statement ' but there is always one'. Except yet again you are wrong in think that the 'one' in question is anyone other than you. You are the 'one'.
Like I said, put down the bible, step outside into the real world and join the real debate over the true benefits and reality of our move to EV. Making up a load of twaddle and regurgitating cultist propaganda isn't going to endear you to any of the beloved 90% of the people you wildly claim to speak for and represent.
DonkeyApple said:
RayTay said:
DonkeyApple said:
That's simply not true.
It is very true. Most people welcome silent cars, trucks, taxis and buses, etc. They all know that when mass production comes like to the level of IC cars, the price will drop. It has to as there are far, far fewer parts in an EV. No one wants pollution and noise. You obviously do. But there is always one.Many have done the figures and going for EVs as the overall costs are lower. London is crawling with hybrids and EVs. By your twisted logic these people driving all these battery powered cars do not know what they are doing and cannot count.
Edited by RayTay on Friday 14th July 11:03
London only has hybrids due to the taxation situation and legislation. It's about the money.
Most people may welcome many things but whether they do anything about any of them depends on the cost.
The problem you have being a religious zealot is that like all such nutters you cannot handle constructive conversation or debate and view anyone who doesn't fervently agree with you as being the devil.
Hence why you are now claiming I obviously want pollution and noise as your basis for discussion. You are obviously wrong on that front. As you well know, I not only have not said that but I am pro EV.
You are wrong that the overall costs of EV ownership are lower than ICE. They are not. That is why even with tax benefits and legislation the masses are not yet buying them.
In fact, the only thing you are right about is your statement ' but there is always one'. Except yet again you are wrong in think that the 'one' in question is anyone other than you. You are the 'one'.
Like I said, put down the bible, step outside into the real world and join the real debate over the true benefits and reality of our move to EV. Making up a load of twaddle and regurgitating cultist propaganda isn't going to endear you to any of the beloved 90% of the people you wildly claim to speak for and represent.
In my particular case - given current petrol prices i would need to find an ICE capable of returning more than 183 mpg for it to be cheaper to run than the i3
my current car is an S3, which costs £36k, the i3 costs £33k with some kit - the car is cheaper, running it is cheaper. owning it is cheaper.
PixelpeepS3 said:
DonkeyApple said:
RayTay said:
DonkeyApple said:
That's simply not true.
It is very true. Most people welcome silent cars, trucks, taxis and buses, etc. They all know that when mass production comes like to the level of IC cars, the price will drop. It has to as there are far, far fewer parts in an EV. No one wants pollution and noise. You obviously do. But there is always one.Many have done the figures and going for EVs as the overall costs are lower. London is crawling with hybrids and EVs. By your twisted logic these people driving all these battery powered cars do not know what they are doing and cannot count.
Edited by RayTay on Friday 14th July 11:03
London only has hybrids due to the taxation situation and legislation. It's about the money.
Most people may welcome many things but whether they do anything about any of them depends on the cost.
The problem you have being a religious zealot is that like all such nutters you cannot handle constructive conversation or debate and view anyone who doesn't fervently agree with you as being the devil.
Hence why you are now claiming I obviously want pollution and noise as your basis for discussion. You are obviously wrong on that front. As you well know, I not only have not said that but I am pro EV.
You are wrong that the overall costs of EV ownership are lower than ICE. They are not. That is why even with tax benefits and legislation the masses are not yet buying them.
In fact, the only thing you are right about is your statement ' but there is always one'. Except yet again you are wrong in think that the 'one' in question is anyone other than you. You are the 'one'.
Like I said, put down the bible, step outside into the real world and join the real debate over the true benefits and reality of our move to EV. Making up a load of twaddle and regurgitating cultist propaganda isn't going to endear you to any of the beloved 90% of the people you wildly claim to speak for and represent.
In my particular case - given current petrol prices i would need to find an ICE capable of returning more than 183 mpg for it to be cheaper to run than the i3
my current car is an S3, which costs £36k, the i3 costs £33k with some kit - the car is cheaper, running it is cheaper. owning it is cheaper.
My i3 costs me 49pence per day in "fuel".
The same (35mile) commute in the derv costs around £5.50 in fuel. So every day i drive the i3, i spend £5 less. In a typical working year, that's £1050 less spend.
But, even if it costs the same as an ICE (which actual facts tell us it doesn't) then i'd still drive the i3 for my (tedious, traffic filled) daily commute.
Every single person who has been in my i3 comes away impressed and often later comments how getting back in their ICE suddenly felt dated, noisy and frankly, wasteful. As an experience, moving in near silence through busy traffic on a tiny amount of energy is actually a very nice experience indeed.
And yet they do get back into their ICE and don't rush to ditch it for an i3. Because it's all about the money.
On the i3 thread you've spoken often about the big price fall in used i3's being the factor of your purchase and that you've discovered the real life benefits post that. So even your own purchase of an EV was all about the money.
The fact remains that it simply does not matter how quiet an EV is or how many people make passing remarks about the noise it all boils down to the money.
Until they are a genuine economic winner over ICE the masses aren't going to migrate. The masses are the same people who have all been forced into diesel cars by just making road tax cheaper and offering better mpg. They don't care about anything but the money.
It is all about the monthlies. Always has been and always will be. Just having a different engine under the bonnet of the utility transport box is wholly irrelevant.
And I would have thought, given the last few years, that everyone understands now that what the 'people' say simply doesn't match what the 'people' do.
Until the finances reverse ( exactly as they did in your case!) the EV will sadly remain the taxpayer subsidised plaything of the white, metrosexual elite. It won't make that leap to the masses. Whatever they say.
On the i3 thread you've spoken often about the big price fall in used i3's being the factor of your purchase and that you've discovered the real life benefits post that. So even your own purchase of an EV was all about the money.
The fact remains that it simply does not matter how quiet an EV is or how many people make passing remarks about the noise it all boils down to the money.
Until they are a genuine economic winner over ICE the masses aren't going to migrate. The masses are the same people who have all been forced into diesel cars by just making road tax cheaper and offering better mpg. They don't care about anything but the money.
It is all about the monthlies. Always has been and always will be. Just having a different engine under the bonnet of the utility transport box is wholly irrelevant.
And I would have thought, given the last few years, that everyone understands now that what the 'people' say simply doesn't match what the 'people' do.
Until the finances reverse ( exactly as they did in your case!) the EV will sadly remain the taxpayer subsidised plaything of the white, metrosexual elite. It won't make that leap to the masses. Whatever they say.
GT119 said:
RayTay said:
Dazed and Confused said:
EVs neither save you money or the planet.
Drivel. All evidence points the other way. However, I don't feel the need to insult EVERYONE who has a different opinion.
Why do you feel the need?
ks it's better to call them on it than let it slide.DonkeyApple said:
And yet they do get back into their ICE and don't rush to ditch it for an i3. Because it's all about the money.
On the i3 thread you've spoken often about the big price fall in used i3's being the factor of your purchase and that you've discovered the real life benefits post that. So even your own purchase of an EV was all about the money.
The fact remains that it simply does not matter how quiet an EV is or how many people make passing remarks about the noise it all boils down to the money.
Until they are a genuine economic winner over ICE the masses aren't going to migrate. The masses are the same people who have all been forced into diesel cars by just making road tax cheaper and offering better mpg. They don't care about anything but the money.
It is all about the monthlies. Always has been and always will be. Just having a different engine under the bonnet of the utility transport box is wholly irrelevant.
And I would have thought, given the last few years, that everyone understands now that what the 'people' say simply doesn't match what the 'people' do.
Until the finances reverse ( exactly as they did in your case!) the EV will sadly remain the taxpayer subsidised plaything of the white, metrosexual elite. It won't make that leap to the masses. Whatever they say.
You've been able to pcp a top of the range, biggest battery Leaf for under 200 a month - which from a 2 second look at Ling's is pretty similar to a Leon/Juke 1.2 so I don't think it's just about the money.On the i3 thread you've spoken often about the big price fall in used i3's being the factor of your purchase and that you've discovered the real life benefits post that. So even your own purchase of an EV was all about the money.
The fact remains that it simply does not matter how quiet an EV is or how many people make passing remarks about the noise it all boils down to the money.
Until they are a genuine economic winner over ICE the masses aren't going to migrate. The masses are the same people who have all been forced into diesel cars by just making road tax cheaper and offering better mpg. They don't care about anything but the money.
It is all about the monthlies. Always has been and always will be. Just having a different engine under the bonnet of the utility transport box is wholly irrelevant.
And I would have thought, given the last few years, that everyone understands now that what the 'people' say simply doesn't match what the 'people' do.
Until the finances reverse ( exactly as they did in your case!) the EV will sadly remain the taxpayer subsidised plaything of the white, metrosexual elite. It won't make that leap to the masses. Whatever they say.
If the Leaf looked like a Qashquai (or a Golf) and more people had actually tried one I think they'd be far more popular.
As a second car (which has become our first) an EV is an absolute no brainer - both financially and because for 99% of journeys it's simply a better car to drive.
Once there is a choice of 200 mile range EVs you can rent for under 200/month they'll be no excuse not to buy one.
danp said:
Once there is a choice of 200 mile range EVs you can rent for under 200/month they'll be no excuse not to buy one.
Until then the masses will keep finding a million ways to condemn or avoid the product. Those who only drive 5 miles a day will keep saying they don't have the range, those without driveways will keep going on about how they can't charge at home, those who rely on debt will whinge about residuals etc etc but the moment the EV is genuinely cheaper than some s
tty, bland, pointless, crappy little diesel st box of debt riddled uniformity the masses will wk themselves unconscious over EVs and be screaming to the skies about how superior they are and how superior it makes them as a human being over the council scum stuck in backward ICEs. But until then they will remain a purchase made by predominantly white, metrosexual, professional males (much like top end bicycles), some rabid fundamentalists and the odd shed hunter who realised that a used one can be much cheaper for their purpose.
Brabus have finally brought the mental to the electric Smart... https://drivemag.com/news/smart-fortwo-electric-jo...
Brabus Ultimate E concept. 150kw (204bhp), 0-100km/h (0-62mph) in 4.5 seconds. Silly numbers for what the car is, the most powerful petrol Smart Fortwo had 125bhp (not including the Roadster V6 biturbo prototypes with 215bhp or the Mitsubishi Colt based original ForFour).
It's a concept, and as it's a Brabus it would be silly money if they ever sold them. But I sort of want one
Brabus Ultimate E concept. 150kw (204bhp), 0-100km/h (0-62mph) in 4.5 seconds. Silly numbers for what the car is, the most powerful petrol Smart Fortwo had 125bhp (not including the Roadster V6 biturbo prototypes with 215bhp or the Mitsubishi Colt based original ForFour).
It's a concept, and as it's a Brabus it would be silly money if they ever sold them. But I sort of want one
RayTay said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQpX-9OyEr4
The three UK refineries used in one year:
I know it is late, but I'll call you on your figures-The three UK refineries used in one year:
- 5,600 gWh of electricity to refine oil.
- That is 5,642,000,000 kWh
- One gallon refined used 4.5 kWh of electricity
- 5,642,000,000 kWh is enough electricity to propel 23,000,0000 EVs to drive 20 trillion miles.
Edited by RayTay on Friday 14th July 10:19
Looking at No. 4 I'll assume you meant 23,000,000 cars.
23 million cars doing 20 trillion miles each for 5642GWh is 12nW/mile, that is a bit too efficient even for an EV, I think they are more like 300 - 350W/mile at motorway speeds.
A more likely figure is 23 million cars doing 800 miles each.
If petrol cars average 35mpg then the petrol produced would allow 23 million cars to do about 2,000 miles each.
Of course if you burnt the petrol to produce electricity...
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