RE: Cars we won't regret going electric: Speed Matters
Discussion
As stated, as one of 2 cars, perfectly acceptable. We could have the EV for town duties, dropping kids off, shopping, errands etc, then the IC for all the other stuff.
Having said that, the latest gen of EV cars are claiming 250 mile range, it's very rare I drive over that distance, and if I was doing say 500 miles I'd probably welcome a break in the middle anyway, at which point the car could be charged.
Having said that, the latest gen of EV cars are claiming 250 mile range, it's very rare I drive over that distance, and if I was doing say 500 miles I'd probably welcome a break in the middle anyway, at which point the car could be charged.
AlexHat said:
Surely with the range limitations electric cars make most sense for people driving 10 miles to and from work, or driving in the city? Electric taxi's and buses in London would IMO go a long way to solving the air quality issue.
I wouldn't want to attempt to drive Land's End to John O'Groats in an electric vehicle with the current charging network and range of electric vehicles, I'd take a conventional petrol or diesel car.
I picked up my new EV from Newcastle and drove it back home to Gloucestershire - that was 2 years ago - plenty of charging points, the issue is time.I wouldn't want to attempt to drive Land's End to John O'Groats in an electric vehicle with the current charging network and range of electric vehicles, I'd take a conventional petrol or diesel car.
The only problem for JoG to Lands End is that after Exeter Services - my perception is that it does get harder to find fast chargers - if your on major motorways charging is not a problem.
you can drive an EV from London to Bristol no problem for example.
Max_Torque said:
if only there was some way of, say, hiring a vehicle you don't have to own for the few days a year where you need the extra range? Someone should sort that out........... ;-)
My i3 is the small battery model, does around 65 miles in the depth of winter and a max of 100 in summer, and yet, despite that "range limitation" my 335 has been used so little since i got the i3, that so far, over half way through 2017, i've only had to fill it (the 335) up 4 times.............
(the i3 has done about 8000 km, and cost just under £90 in 'lecy!)
Both Nissan and BMW offer their EV customers ICE cars to borrow for a set number of days per year to cover that exact situationMy i3 is the small battery model, does around 65 miles in the depth of winter and a max of 100 in summer, and yet, despite that "range limitation" my 335 has been used so little since i got the i3, that so far, over half way through 2017, i've only had to fill it (the 335) up 4 times.............
(the i3 has done about 8000 km, and cost just under £90 in 'lecy!)
candidates for EV - anything defined as a 'city car' - and if mini did one I would buy it, and I actually think the comment about the £5k government grant is a valid one - I hadn't thought about it before, but EV motor and battery production costs must have dropped quite a bit in the past 5 years with the amount of cars being sold worldwide. Use the £5k the customer pays to build even better EV charging infrastructure. I wonder if that £5k was initially set up to meet some EU pollution/emissions target - I thought I read that was the case somewhere?
Edited by oilit on Wednesday 5th July 06:16
Edited by oilit on Wednesday 5th July 06:17
oilit said:
Max_Torque said:
if only there was some way of, say, hiring a vehicle you don't have to own for the few days a year where you need the extra range? Someone should sort that out........... ;-)
My i3 is the small battery model, does around 65 miles in the depth of winter and a max of 100 in summer, and yet, despite that "range limitation" my 335 has been used so little since i got the i3, that so far, over half way through 2017, i've only had to fill it (the 335) up 4 times.............
(the i3 has done about 8000 km, and cost just under £90 in 'lecy!)
Both Nissan and BMW offer their EV customers ICE cars to borrow for a set number of days per year to cover that exact situationMy i3 is the small battery model, does around 65 miles in the depth of winter and a max of 100 in summer, and yet, despite that "range limitation" my 335 has been used so little since i got the i3, that so far, over half way through 2017, i've only had to fill it (the 335) up 4 times.............
(the i3 has done about 8000 km, and cost just under £90 in 'lecy!)
candidates for EV - anything defined as a 'city car' - and if mini did one I would buy it, and I actually think the comment about the £5k government grant is a valid one - I hadn't thought about it before, but EV motor and battery production costs must have dropped quite a bit in the past 5 years with the amount of cars being sold worldwide. Use the £5k the customer pays to build even better EV charging infrastructure. I wonder if that £5k was initially set up to meet some EU pollution/emissions target - I thought I read that was the case somewhere?
Edited by oilit on Wednesday 5th July 06:16
Edited by oilit on Wednesday 5th July 06:17
I keep hearing there's very little to go wrong with EVs, so why so expensive?
boyse7en said:
I always wanted my Citroen XM to be more silent smooth.
The clatter of the diesel engine was at odds with its wafty and floaty nature. Electric power would have enhanced the magic carpet sensation
Yes. Citroens are definitely 'should be EV' cars. New, old, big, small, weird, to me they would just suit being EV.The clatter of the diesel engine was at odds with its wafty and floaty nature. Electric power would have enhanced the magic carpet sensation
Dazed and Confused said:
oilit said:
Max_Torque said:
if only there was some way of, say, hiring a vehicle you don't have to own for the few days a year where you need the extra range? Someone should sort that out........... ;-)
My i3 is the small battery model, does around 65 miles in the depth of winter and a max of 100 in summer, and yet, despite that "range limitation" my 335 has been used so little since i got the i3, that so far, over half way through 2017, i've only had to fill it (the 335) up 4 times.............
(the i3 has done about 8000 km, and cost just under £90 in 'lecy!)
Both Nissan and BMW offer their EV customers ICE cars to borrow for a set number of days per year to cover that exact situationMy i3 is the small battery model, does around 65 miles in the depth of winter and a max of 100 in summer, and yet, despite that "range limitation" my 335 has been used so little since i got the i3, that so far, over half way through 2017, i've only had to fill it (the 335) up 4 times.............
(the i3 has done about 8000 km, and cost just under £90 in 'lecy!)
candidates for EV - anything defined as a 'city car' - and if mini did one I would buy it, and I actually think the comment about the £5k government grant is a valid one - I hadn't thought about it before, but EV motor and battery production costs must have dropped quite a bit in the past 5 years with the amount of cars being sold worldwide. Use the £5k the customer pays to build even better EV charging infrastructure. I wonder if that £5k was initially set up to meet some EU pollution/emissions target - I thought I read that was the case somewhere?
Edited by oilit on Wednesday 5th July 06:16
Edited by oilit on Wednesday 5th July 06:17
I keep hearing there's very little to go wrong with EVs, so why so expensive?
Economies of scale.
I was tempted by electric but there were a few things that stopped me, Now I could realistically own one but its all down to the charging points. These things take hours to charge, do you get a charging point put up at your home? or do you run an extension lead out to my drive? also if I do get a charging point built what stops other people stealing my electricity without paying for it? Does the battery need changed after a certain amount of time? I can imagine that being expensive.
Some of these are probably stupid questions/concerns but they ran through my mind when I briefly considered an EV.
Some of these are probably stupid questions/concerns but they ran through my mind when I briefly considered an EV.
Defconluke said:
An electric vehicle would be perfect for the sort of drving I regularly do however it's not so much the range that worries me with an electric car but the logistics of being able to charge it at home.
If (like me) you live on a busy street and especially if you do shift work then being able to get parked even remotely close to where you live can be a lottery. You can't run an extenstion lead across a busy road or down the street & round the corner very easily (especially from a 2nd floor flat) and parking spaces are irregularly sized because people drive cars of all shapes and sizes so placing a charging station every so often isn't going to be practical. With a current ICE vehicle I can park wherever there is a space and not have to worry about the logistics of being able to refuel it for a week or longer if needs be regardless of where or when I need to drive somewhere.
Maybe we'll get to a time where you have to own a parking space to own a car?If (like me) you live on a busy street and especially if you do shift work then being able to get parked even remotely close to where you live can be a lottery. You can't run an extenstion lead across a busy road or down the street & round the corner very easily (especially from a 2nd floor flat) and parking spaces are irregularly sized because people drive cars of all shapes and sizes so placing a charging station every so often isn't going to be practical. With a current ICE vehicle I can park wherever there is a space and not have to worry about the logistics of being able to refuel it for a week or longer if needs be regardless of where or when I need to drive somewhere.
Defconluke said:
An electric vehicle would be perfect for the sort of drving I regularly do however it's not so much the range that worries me with an electric car but the logistics of being able to charge it at home.
If (like me) you live on a busy street and especially if you do shift work then being able to get parked even remotely close to where you live can be a lottery. You can't run an extenstion lead across a busy road or down the street & round the corner very easily (especially from a 2nd floor flat) and parking spaces are irregularly sized because people drive cars of all shapes and sizes so placing a charging station every so often isn't going to be practical. With a current ICE vehicle I can park wherever there is a space and not have to worry about the logistics of being able to refuel it for a week or longer if needs be regardless of where or when I need to drive somewhere.
Do you live near a lamppost?If (like me) you live on a busy street and especially if you do shift work then being able to get parked even remotely close to where you live can be a lottery. You can't run an extenstion lead across a busy road or down the street & round the corner very easily (especially from a 2nd floor flat) and parking spaces are irregularly sized because people drive cars of all shapes and sizes so placing a charging station every so often isn't going to be practical. With a current ICE vehicle I can park wherever there is a space and not have to worry about the logistics of being able to refuel it for a week or longer if needs be regardless of where or when I need to drive somewhere.
I'd agree with other posters here and say that city/school run cars could all go electric, save the petrol for the weekend cars
As already said, these little SMART cars and various other small city cars are a good starting point into going fully-electric. The majority of them are used for smaller trips and lower miles/distances anyway so it's the logical introduction. It will make them very nippy in the process too. Perfect for their use, really.
I'm coming round to the idea of them myself now, which is something that i never thought i'd say for a long time or even at all.
I'm coming round to the idea of them myself now, which is something that i never thought i'd say for a long time or even at all.
I realise electric is generated by power stations, burning fossil fuel. I was just wondering; how thermally efficient is a power station at burning fossil fuel, compared to an average ICE?
I remember a story about Ferrari having huge V12 generators in their factory, running at about 70% thermal efficiency?
EFA:
Google answered my question:
ICE vehicle engines are around 25% efficient, power stations around 40%.
On a separate note, electrical motors convert around 85% (!) of their energy into mechanical motion.
I remember a story about Ferrari having huge V12 generators in their factory, running at about 70% thermal efficiency?
EFA:
Google answered my question:
ICE vehicle engines are around 25% efficient, power stations around 40%.
On a separate note, electrical motors convert around 85% (!) of their energy into mechanical motion.
Edited by jayemdoubleu on Wednesday 5th July 09:37
jayemdoubleu said:
I realise electric is generated by power stations, burning fossil fuel. I was just wondering; how thermally efficient is a power station at burning fossil fuel, compared to an average ICE?
I remember a story about Ferrari having huge V12 generators in their factory, running at about 70% thermal efficiency?
Power stations have huge advantages over cars for both emissions and efficiency :I remember a story about Ferrari having huge V12 generators in their factory, running at about 70% thermal efficiency?
Weight is not an issue.
Size (eg exhaust treatment) is not an issue.
Fairly constant load.
Fairly constant speed.
Basically no idling.
Basically no cold running.
etc.
99dndd said:
Defconluke said:
An electric vehicle would be perfect for the sort of drving I regularly do however it's not so much the range that worries me with an electric car but the logistics of being able to charge it at home.
If (like me) you live on a busy street and especially if you do shift work then being able to get parked even remotely close to where you live can be a lottery. You can't run an extenstion lead across a busy road or down the street & round the corner very easily (especially from a 2nd floor flat) and parking spaces are irregularly sized because people drive cars of all shapes and sizes so placing a charging station every so often isn't going to be practical. With a current ICE vehicle I can park wherever there is a space and not have to worry about the logistics of being able to refuel it for a week or longer if needs be regardless of where or when I need to drive somewhere.
Do you live near a lamppost?If (like me) you live on a busy street and especially if you do shift work then being able to get parked even remotely close to where you live can be a lottery. You can't run an extenstion lead across a busy road or down the street & round the corner very easily (especially from a 2nd floor flat) and parking spaces are irregularly sized because people drive cars of all shapes and sizes so placing a charging station every so often isn't going to be practical. With a current ICE vehicle I can park wherever there is a space and not have to worry about the logistics of being able to refuel it for a week or longer if needs be regardless of where or when I need to drive somewhere.
I'd agree with other posters here and say that city/school run cars could all go electric, save the petrol for the weekend cars
Thermobaric said:
Rumor is there will be a new i model sometime soon. i5 perhaps? 330e seems to fit the bill for that area for the moment.
Rumour I heard [well, got told by a dealer principle] is; 3 series sized, 300 mile range, electric only. Only bit I cant remember was whether it was going to be pitched as an i5 or the next generation 330e.For what cars should have been EVs or I wouldn’t regret them having been EVs, I honestly think the answer is none. Just because they kinda make sense now, doesn’t mean they would have made sense then. Also, broadly speaking, they don’t necessarily make sense now if you take the rose tinted specs off.
EV cars, and by that I mean pure EV, are still not a particularly mature technology but are being marketed as such. I’m sure someone will now counter with just how long we’ve had electric milk floats and the leccy board ran electric vans in the 70s, and if that’s honestly the level of their comparative powers, I’m not going to bother my backside replying. For some people EVs work, but it’s a very conscious lifestyle change at present and they do not work for everyone. This very article concludes how amazing the Smart is now its an EV, I don’t disagree, having driven one way back when I was a teenager, I can see how it would be improved by being an EV. At the same time, if I think about where I’ve always tended to see Smarts living and their end users; low daily if not weekly mileage – perfect, live in an area with low to non-existent off street parking – problem.
In the next decade, pure EV will become far more viable for far more people. The people I mentioned above wouldn’t have a problem if all EVs managed to get to around 200 miles range, as that covers the UK average weekly mileage with a 50 mile buffer for random unexpected trips and could be fast charged on that one time a week they go to a supermarket or somewhere similar, where mass charging infrastructure could easily be put in place. Equally, that battery range would make longer distance drivers more amenable to the prospect of ownership.
Right now, PHEVs are the really interesting technology, things like the Golf & Passat GTE and BMW’s 330e / 530e. Volvo’s announcement today makes a lot of sense, I get the feeling quite a few manufacturers are going to introduce more PHEVs. What cars you wish had been fitted with even a small KERS style electric system seems a bit more of a “speed matters” kinda question, from cars I’ve been browsing recently, I wish the 335i ActiveHybrid had gone the full hog and had the 330e’s electric system.
AW111 said:
jayemdoubleu said:
stuff
Power stations have huge advantages over cars for both emissions and efficiency :Weight is not an issue.
Size (eg exhaust treatment) is not an issue.
Fairly constant load.
Fairly constant speed.
Basically no idling.
Basically no cold running.
etc.
Unless I'm being dimwitted, and oversimplifying it.
Number 97 said:
I was tempted by electric but there were a few things that stopped me, Now I could realistically own one but its all down to the charging points. These things take hours to charge, do you get a charging point put up at your home? or do you run an extension lead out to my drive? also if I do get a charging point built what stops other people stealing my electricity without paying for it? Does the battery need changed after a certain amount of time? I can imagine that being expensive.
Some of these are probably stupid questions/concerns but they ran through my mind when I briefly considered an EV.
Here's some answers - https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/lea... - I'm sure there were deals on at one point where either the manufacturer or the government were willing to put in a 32 amp charger in your driveway or garage. The simple answer to electricity being nicked is either have the charger in a locked building or get one with a key lock fitted.Some of these are probably stupid questions/concerns but they ran through my mind when I briefly considered an EV.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff