RE: Aston Martin Valkyrie design secrets revealed
Discussion
NRS said:
robinessex said:
All sold, waiting list. Build slot on the market. https://www.knightinternational.net/viewid-3701 How long before the speculators, after delivery, put them on the market, and how much. I've heard there maybe a clause about selling on though. Ought to be about driving them as well !!!
I read for the first "x" years you can only sell it at a loss back to Aston. But not sure how it is written - is it just they won't sell you another car in future, or something more strict legally.I think it's a cracking thing and we should be revelling in it having a big V12 in a world where such a car is more likely to have a whiny 3 pot to charge up some batteries.
And I'm not really seeing what the compromise is as you'll just have someone take it to where you want to play with and fly in and out. It would clearly be a compromise for me as I would be living in the shed with the car, having to use it for shopping and commuting and be unable to afford to service it. But I'm hard pushed to see any kind of compromise for the type of person who is happy to design their kitchen around one.
robinessex said:
The classic dilemma. The engineer wants to design it according to all the rules of engineering, the stylist wants it to look fantastic, and the production engineer wants it cheap (relatively ) and easy to manufacture. Oh dear, real world car manufacturing. And, this is what happens to ALL cars designed, it’s the way the car industry works. The only difference with this project, is Mr Newey may get his way a bit more ! But I do wish it was bit better looking.
Easy to manufacture isn't going to be a priority. These are a small quantity of cars at £3 million each not the next VW Golf.NRS said:
PhantomPH said:
Megaflow said:
But, as an engineer, it is so horribly compromised that is only ever going to bea garage ornament, and that upsets the petrol head in me.
How can you possibly know that unless you are involved in the production of this car and are using this forum to vent at the people who pay your wages?All cars are "compromised". It just depends on the use you want it for. This will never be a daily driver, but then even the F1 isn't despite it being more practical. Same goes for cheap stuff like an MX-5 - that is far more practical, yet how many that are made are used as an one garage car due to the compromises of not having more seats etc? Does that make them a failure?
All of this is my speculation, but that is what engineers do. We look at products, and start to think about you they are laid out, where the main parts are, what compromises have been made to achieve the goals they set out, etc.
The product brief of this car is to be massively fast around a circuit. And I have no doubt it will be. I believe the problem is, it will be bugger all use for anything else. And if it is only good at going fast on a circuit, why not buy an F1 car and go even faster.
Megaflow said:
Agreed. All cars are compromise's, but I suspect this is going to be a real one trick pony. Massively fast around a circuit, truely different league to anything we have yet seen with a number plate. I don't believe it will be as fast as an LMP1 car, even with slicks fitted. But, away from the track, it is going to be terrible. So much has been given up to aero there just isn't room for a decent size fuel tank, etc.
All of this is my speculation, but that is what engineers do. We look at products, and start to think about you they are laid out, where the main parts are, what compromises have been made to achieve the goals they set out, etc.
The product brief of this car is to be massively fast around a circuit. And I have no doubt it will be. I believe the problem is, it will be bugger all use for anything else. And if it is only good at going fast on a circuit, why not buy an F1 car and go even faster.
I understand, but you are assuming what is the correct compromise for you is right for everyone. Just look at the reviews of stuff like the McLaren suspension. It seems to be able to give good comfort yet also be very stiff when needed. The compromises needed for a car like this will be different to a normal car as you can pay a lot more on each component. So in the same way McLaren can have a suspension that would not be "possible" in a Golf due to the costs then you can build parts that can reduce the compromise between fast and comfortable. There will be diminishing returns due to physics, but it will still be able to deal with compromises somewhat better. All of this is my speculation, but that is what engineers do. We look at products, and start to think about you they are laid out, where the main parts are, what compromises have been made to achieve the goals they set out, etc.
The product brief of this car is to be massively fast around a circuit. And I have no doubt it will be. I believe the problem is, it will be bugger all use for anything else. And if it is only good at going fast on a circuit, why not buy an F1 car and go even faster.
Plus an F1 car would be massively different, in that it does need even more skills to drive (just look at the journalists who move from driving fast road cars to basically not being able to drive F1 cars when allowed to do a test), plus it doesn't mean you can drive to the track with your other half/ friend if you want. And I suspect it will be a lot better on the road than you think. Obviously getting near the ultimate performance on the road will not be possible, but even in fast Audis etc which are "normal" cars then you'd not be able to do that either these days.
DonkeyApple said:
I think it's a cracking thing and we should be revelling in it having a big V12 in a world where such a car is more likely to have a whiny 3 pot to charge up some batteries.
And I'm not really seeing what the compromise is as you'll just have someone take it to where you want to play with and fly in and out. It would clearly be a compromise for me as I would be living in the shed with the car, having to use it for shopping and commuting and be unable to afford to service it. But I'm hard pushed to see any kind of compromise for the type of person who is happy to design their kitchen around one.
Agreed. It’s a shame that someone in this thread has already called it a dinosaur.And I'm not really seeing what the compromise is as you'll just have someone take it to where you want to play with and fly in and out. It would clearly be a compromise for me as I would be living in the shed with the car, having to use it for shopping and commuting and be unable to afford to service it. But I'm hard pushed to see any kind of compromise for the type of person who is happy to design their kitchen around one.
In terms of usability, I think this is probably closer to the philosophy of the Ferrari FXX cars than the McLaren F1. Something you have transported to the track of your choice for a few hours of high speed entertainment. This has the added bonus of being able to occasionally pose in a hyper car on public roads.
Someone said you could buy a genuine F1 car for the money. I doubt the buyers of this need to make the choice between the two. If they want an F1 car, they probably already have one.
What's not to like
Megaflow said:
robinessex said:
He tells me about one customer, an American lady, who’s designing her entire house with the Valkyrie as its centrepiece.
I can. Drive the damn thing, don't put it in your house!Compromise??? Really.
I though compromise was trying to make a car do all things, Range Rover SVR, Porsche Cayenne. Neither are sharp as sports cars or as good as a Discovery off Road. During their design compromises were made which blunted their performance.
This car is probably more focused for speed with less engineering compromises than any other made. OK for everyday use going to Tesco that may make it a bit compromised, but that's not the point.
It's supposed to be the fastest road car (round a circuit) you can buy and it probably will be. My guess is, knowing Newey's history, it'll also be surprisingly usable on the roads as well. (enough to drive up the hill and park outside the Casino in Monaco anyway)
I though compromise was trying to make a car do all things, Range Rover SVR, Porsche Cayenne. Neither are sharp as sports cars or as good as a Discovery off Road. During their design compromises were made which blunted their performance.
This car is probably more focused for speed with less engineering compromises than any other made. OK for everyday use going to Tesco that may make it a bit compromised, but that's not the point.
It's supposed to be the fastest road car (round a circuit) you can buy and it probably will be. My guess is, knowing Newey's history, it'll also be surprisingly usable on the roads as well. (enough to drive up the hill and park outside the Casino in Monaco anyway)
It has down force levels similar to an LMP1 car, suggested the car will generate up to 4000lb (1816kg) of down force at top speed, and will achieve 4.5g of lateral force. Obviously, with those sort of figures, this car has been designed to travel very fast around a track. Totally irrelevant to road use. But a suspension system stiff enough for that down force, what’s it going to be like on the road at modest speeds? And the 0-60 time suggested of 2 seconds I doubt could be achieved either. Finally, how much is it? I’ve seen figures £2m to £3 quoted.
robinessex said:
It has down force levels similar to an LMP1 car, suggested the car will generate up to 4000lb (1816kg) of down force at top speed, and will achieve 4.5g of lateral force. Obviously, with those sort of figures, this car has been designed to travel very fast around a track. Totally irrelevant to road use. But a suspension system stiff enough for that down force, what’s it going to be like on the road at modest speeds? And the 0-60 time suggested of 2 seconds I doubt could be achieved either. Finally, how much is it? I’ve seen figures £2m to £3 quoted.
I imagine it's going to have active suspension to stiffen under load don't you? You haven't exactly stumbled across a phenomenon no one has thought about before.fblm said:
robinessex said:
It has down force levels similar to an LMP1 car, suggested the car will generate up to 4000lb (1816kg) of down force at top speed, and will achieve 4.5g of lateral force. Obviously, with those sort of figures, this car has been designed to travel very fast around a track. Totally irrelevant to road use. But a suspension system stiff enough for that down force, what’s it going to be like on the road at modest speeds? And the 0-60 time suggested of 2 seconds I doubt could be achieved either. Finally, how much is it? I’ve seen figures £2m to £3 quoted.
I imagine it's going to have active suspension to stiffen under load don't you? You haven't exactly stumbled across a phenomenon no one has thought about before.It's been explicitly mentioned that it'll be operating with a self levelling active system, a la FW15c.
On the other side, it would seem utterly necessary anywhere beyond say 488 levels of performance that adaptive damping would be a given.
So expect both. It won't do what it needs to otherwise.
On the other side, it would seem utterly necessary anywhere beyond say 488 levels of performance that adaptive damping would be a given.
So expect both. It won't do what it needs to otherwise.
Might be right about the 2 seconds, since it's 2wd, but, i don't seem to recall running across that claim anywhere, i wouldn't hold them to it.
It'll be interesting to see how the aero comes on though. Might end up relying entirely on power to weight ratio on tighter circuits as the aero looks biased to higher speeds, but not as badly as the Caparo.
It'll be interesting to see how the aero comes on though. Might end up relying entirely on power to weight ratio on tighter circuits as the aero looks biased to higher speeds, but not as badly as the Caparo.
Solid ground clearance for dirt tracks, but utterly pointless otherwise.
Racing cars are racing cars - they're for racing, and that's all well and good. Fast road cars are, or certainly were, beautiful, and that was half the point. What is this? It's clearly designed for two things - being fast on the track, and posing in London. No one will ever drive it on the open road, or use it on a long trip.
I really dislike this kind of car, because in sidestepping all the things that make a road car great in the name of lap times, it ceases to be a proper road car. I pretty much don't care!
Racing cars are racing cars - they're for racing, and that's all well and good. Fast road cars are, or certainly were, beautiful, and that was half the point. What is this? It's clearly designed for two things - being fast on the track, and posing in London. No one will ever drive it on the open road, or use it on a long trip.
I really dislike this kind of car, because in sidestepping all the things that make a road car great in the name of lap times, it ceases to be a proper road car. I pretty much don't care!
robinessex said:
It has down force levels similar to an LMP1 car, suggested the car will generate up to 4000lb (1816kg) of down force at top speed, and will achieve 4.5g of lateral force. Obviously, with those sort of figures, this car has been designed to travel very fast around a track. Totally irrelevant to road use. But a suspension system stiff enough for that down force, what’s it going to be like on the road at modest speeds? And the 0-60 time suggested of 2 seconds I doubt could be achieved either. Finally, how much is it? I’ve seen figures £2m to £3 quoted.
The high downforce figures are for the AMR Pro version of the car, that's the one that's aiming to be quicker than an LMP1 car as it'll be the more track focused version. PhantomPH said:
I think it's the headlights. A different headlight design (larger?) would improve the front no end.
I don't normally think this way, but this is the first car that I have found myself thinking like one of those people who moan about Porsche RS products - all I thought was, "Meh - never going to see one, never going to drive one, not interested". I think I must be unwell...
I don't think you will have any trouble seeing one. I don't go to that many car events but I've so far seen the mock-up Valkyrie twice, for example on the Michelin stand at the FOS. There will be far more production cars and they will probably be on display a fair bit, and probably driving up the Goodwood hill in 2019. Driving one might be a bit more difficult.I don't normally think this way, but this is the first car that I have found myself thinking like one of those people who moan about Porsche RS products - all I thought was, "Meh - never going to see one, never going to drive one, not interested". I think I must be unwell...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff