RE: Aston Martin Valkyrie design secrets revealed

[The Vambo]

Megaflow said:

The McLaren F1 was so popular because it was designed to be the worlds best sports cars

STOP.

If that was the design brief, it failed.

It is getting lost due to passing time and constant Flemke handjobs but the steering, suspension and brakes were routinely criticised by the first road testers. Even Jay Lenno who loves his F1 and Murray criticised the way it handles.

A well designed box for a Paul Rosche masterpiece.

[anonymous-user]

DanielSan said:

there's more room inside it than an Elise

And yet:

DanielSan said:

but it's going to be a snug fit if one passenger is on the larger side.

And Elise has a symmetrical cockpit, the passenger space is the same as the drivers space. (although obviously the drivers space includes handwheel/column and pedals). I suspect this new car may unsymmetric and effectively trade off passenger space against trying to give the driver a bit more room?

Which ever way, anyone who's tall or large is going to find it a squeeze. Cars like P1, LaLa and 918 being road cars first and track cars second, accommodate the full range of Anthropometry

[anonymous-user]

The Vambo said:

but the steering, suspension and brakes were routinely criticised by the first road testers. Even Jay Lenno who loves his F1 and Murray criticised the way it handles.

I can see where you're coming from, but i think it's a bit harsh. The F1 didn't benefit from the modern electronics that can tame such huge power levels and remove the worst sharp edges to a large degree. Back then, the throttle pedal yanked some string, and twelve throttle snapped open, allowing that magnificent V12 to thump it's full output straight to the rear wheels. Without any form of modulating control, if you are a clumsy driver it'll bite you. Also, suspension kinematics were in there infancy, and tyre path control was nothing like it is today. Modern hypercars precisely control their contact patches, again to ensure there are no sudden transitions or discontinuities in the tyre slip value.

With what was available and on a relatively small budget (compared to modern Chassis teams) the F1 is a pretty good attempt, considering the performance on offer ;-)

The Vambo said:

a Paul Rosche masterpiece.

No argument with this one. It's taken 20 years for that engine to be surpassed!

[morgs_]

Saw the mockup at the PHSS at St Athans and I was fascinated by it. While perhaps not the prettiest thing around, I found it fantastic to look at still.

[SpudLink]

I have just uploaded a couple of short iPhone videos of that model to YouTube...

https://youtu.be/-rQ4XEMt-_g

https://youtu.be/9SvjLQigG9A

[silver surfer]

I think I prefer this from Ferrari...

SS

[SpudLink]

This is an interview from a while ago which might be of interest...
https://youtu.be/hnbWw7wtfk0

They mention extreme track performance, and driving down the Kings Road in London. Also something about it being an addition to the collection. Make of that what you will.
Nothing about a large fuel tank for GT style touring in comfort with luggage for two, which seems to be what some posters are suggesting it should do.

[Cold]

Fortunately it won't be long until the new manufacturing plant in Wales will be producing the DBX which should satisfy the requirement to carry multiple passengers and the demands of their luggage.

[Gurov]

this car is so light with wheels so over sized for it's overall proportions that is reminds me of a radio controls toy in a way. I like all I see, it has the zig wiper commanding the centre of the screen also a bit of zonda on it's upper canopy.

I hope they can make this as special as it looks, But I am not a fan of the interior screens as I feel it would be nice to see a full dashboard with the auxiliary screens attached for the rear view with those mounted higher on the left and right corner of the dash and the middle screen lower down. There is no reason why it can't have a full one piece carbon-fibre dash to house the screens, but keeping the main information on the steering wheel or a small pod above it.

The only real problem with this new super-car (mega) is the waiting for it to hit the road... However it is a shame few people will ever seen one being driven outside Goodwood..

[anonymous-user]

robinessex said:

fblm said:

robinessex said:

It has down force levels similar to an LMP1 car, suggested the car will generate up to 4000lb (1816kg) of down force at top speed, and will achieve 4.5g of lateral force. Obviously, with those sort of figures, this car has been designed to travel very fast around a track. Totally irrelevant to road use. But a suspension system stiff enough for that down force, what’s it going to be like on the road at modest speeds? And the 0-60 time suggested of 2 seconds I doubt could be achieved either. Finally, how much is it? I’ve seen figures £2m to £3 quoted.

I imagine it's going to have active suspension to stiffen under load don't you? You haven't exactly stumbled across a phenomenon no one has thought about before.

Active suspension is a type of automotive suspension that controls the vertical movement of the wheels relative to the chassis or vehicle body with an onboard system, rather than in passive suspension where the movement is being determined entirely by the road surface; see Skyhook theory. Active suspensions can be generally divided into two classes: pure active suspensions, and adaptive/semi-active suspensions. While adaptive suspensions only vary shock absorber firmness to match changing road or dynamic conditions, active suspensions use some type of actuator to raise and lower the chassis independently at each wheel. Nothing there about changing suspension stifness. A quite difficult task I suspect unless you go pure hyraulics,

at least give wikipedia credit for your suspension expertise. Besides, adjusting effective spring stiffness is not very difficult; at it's most basic that's what a variable rate or helper spring does and is found in many ordinary cars but in the context of a 2 million quid hypercar an active pushrod geometry that varies ride height and/or 'stiffness' is not very difficult to imagine at all. As I said, you're not exactly the first person to realise the problem of high downforce on suspension; google Lotus 49b. I think it's safe to assume Newey/RB and AM understand the problem.

[robinessex]

fblm said:

robinessex said:

fblm said:

robinessex said:

It has down force levels similar to an LMP1 car, suggested the car will generate up to 4000lb (1816kg) of down force at top speed, and will achieve 4.5g of lateral force. Obviously, with those sort of figures, this car has been designed to travel very fast around a track. Totally irrelevant to road use. But a suspension system stiff enough for that down force, what’s it going to be like on the road at modest speeds? And the 0-60 time suggested of 2 seconds I doubt could be achieved either. Finally, how much is it? I’ve seen figures £2m to £3 quoted.

I imagine it's going to have active suspension to stiffen under load don't you? You haven't exactly stumbled across a phenomenon no one has thought about before.

Active suspension is a type of automotive suspension that controls the vertical movement of the wheels relative to the chassis or vehicle body with an onboard system, rather than in passive suspension where the movement is being determined entirely by the road surface; see Skyhook theory. Active suspensions can be generally divided into two classes: pure active suspensions, and adaptive/semi-active suspensions. While adaptive suspensions only vary shock absorber firmness to match changing road or dynamic conditions, active suspensions use some type of actuator to raise and lower the chassis independently at each wheel. Nothing there about changing suspension stifness. A quite difficult task I suspect unless you go pure hyraulics,

at least give wikipedia credit for your suspension expertise. Besides, adjusting effective spring stiffness is not very difficult; at it's most basic that's what a variable rate or helper spring does and is found in many ordinary cars but in the context of a 2 million quid hypercar an active pushrod geometry that varies ride height and/or 'stiffness' is not very difficult to imagine at all. As I said, you're not exactly the first person to realise the problem of high downforce on suspension; google Lotus 49b. I think it's safe to assume Newey/RB and AM understand the problem.

Considering you need keep the ride height constant, then the spring rate will have to increase by a factor of about 4/5, without any suspension movement. That's tricky !!

[anonymous-user]

robinessex said:

Considering you need keep the ride height constant, then the spring rate will have to increase by a factor of about 4/5, without any suspension movement. That's tricky !!

No you don't and no it isn't. You are likely to want to run low to the ground the faster you are going, like the p1 but in any event of course you can multiply the effective spring rate by moving the rocker pick up point and changing the leverage the push rod has on the spring.

[sidesauce]

PunterCam said:

It's clearly designed for two things - being fast on the track, and posing in London.

Because obviously, it's only going to be sold in the UK. Particularly the LHD version.

How typically myopic.

[robinessex]

fblm said:

robinessex said:

Considering you need keep the ride height constant, then the spring rate will have to increase by a factor of about 4/5, without any suspension movement. That's tricky !!

No you don't and no it isn't. You are likely to want to run low to the ground the faster you are going, like the p1 but in any event of course you can multiply the effective spring rate by moving the rocker pick up point and changing the leverage the push rod has on the spring.

Now you've ruined the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid !! And dropping the ride height on public roads can be a problem. A smooth race track is ok, but the roads are a bumpy mess !

[tjlees]

Emperors clothes again

Aston are to be applauded for producing such a car, but at 150 world wide means it won't really be driven, it's an investment and appeals only to the hand picked mega rich.

I like the engineering/design that's gone into this, but it sure looks fugly when compared to Ferrari!

Next ....

[NRS]

robinessex said:

fblm said:

robinessex said:

Considering you need keep the ride height constant, then the spring rate will have to increase by a factor of about 4/5, without any suspension movement. That's tricky !!

No you don't and no it isn't. You are likely to want to run low to the ground the faster you are going, like the p1 but in any event of course you can multiply the effective spring rate by moving the rocker pick up point and changing the leverage the push rod has on the spring.

Now you've ruined the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid !! And dropping the ride height on public roads can be a problem. A smooth race track is ok, but the roads are a bumpy mess !

Applying KISS all the time is perhaps important for those who are stupid? Obviously keep it as simple as possible, but if you are going for pushing the boundaries then you will need to do complex stuff at times. He also mentioned a way that you could change the effective spring rate without the ride height. From what I can see fblm was suggesting a way it could work - we have to wait and see what is done in practice. That said, it's a complete failure already - not much space for luggage, very little space for people in the car, no range, it will not be a good road car since it uses aero, will never be driven anyway, is designed for the track rather than road, and in addition is ugly.

[Troubleatmill]

tjlees said:

Emperors clothes again

Aston are to be applauded for producing such a car, but at 150 world wide means it won't really be driven, it's an investment and appeals only to the hand picked mega rich.

I like the engineering/design that's gone into this, but it sure looks fugly when compared to Ferrari!

Next ....

It's a business.
AM make jack st profit on the cars they make.
If making 150 of these bolsters the coffers somewhat - good on them.

If you ever do a factory tour - you will see that they only have 1 robot, and all the parts bins etc are labelled Volvo and Ford.

[R400TVR]

No-one's mentioned that it looks impossible to get into, even worse to get out of, and, from the pics, it looks that you can't see anything other than directly ahead. No peripheral vision required?

[DonkeyApple]

Troubleatmill said:

It's a business.
AM make jack st profit on the cars they make.
If making 150 of these bolsters the coffers somewhat - good on them.

If you ever do a factory tour - you will see that they only have 1 robot, and all the parts bins etc are labelled Volvo and Ford.

It's only recently become a business. It's spent most of its time after leaving the Ford stable as a vehicle to extract cash from investors and move it to the pensions of the Board who have made themselves fabulously wealthy at the expense of stripping the business of essential investment.

Hence why Dave and Bez's personal sweetie shop now has a Merc parts bin to replace the Ford and Volvo ones.

Fortunately, Andy Palmer appears to see AML as a car company and not his personal pension and yacht fund which is the best thing to have happened to the marque for a very long time. And they will revert to making decisions that are best for the marque and not a few pension pots.

[Burwood]

Anyone here getting one. I assume Maff?