RE: BMW 135i M Sport: Spotted

[JackReacher]

What's the consensus on how these drive compared to the more recent m235i? Presumably it's a touch ligher and has hydraulic steering in its favour.

I have a m240i on order and it's interesting to hear about the modifications that transformed the 135i coupe, as they could have a similar effect on the m240. LSD and better dampers seem important.

Edited by JackReacher on Friday 14th July 10:43

[aeropilot]

RobM77 said:

Player1pressstart said:

Better get a 125i instead ! This is THE collector IMO.
Last 3L N/A coupe from BMW...
It just need to be detuned to 130i specs (218 to 274-280HP) as originally it's got nothing above 5K.
The engine is 80kg (!) lighter than the turbo one, so on track it's as fast as a 135i but it doesn't understeer unlike it.
The reliability is top-notch too (did 100'000 km with no problem), it's super efficient too (8.5 l/100km AVG in my case over 8 years).
With a performance exhaust the sound is just perfect.
And finally the diff crown is NOT welded which means that you can mount directly an LSD without changing the whole rear axle (I had a Quaiffe in mine, jsut perfect).
If you can, get one without electric steering as it was an option.

80KG?! bloody hell. Do you have a link proving that? If true that's extraordinary.

It is significantly lighter, but not 80kg

From memory, as not got access to the actual figures at the moment, and not the time to Google it all........
The N52 engine in the 125i/130i was around 160kg.
The N54 in the 135i was around 195kg.
The N55 in the 135i was around 190kg.

[scherzkeks]

Player1pressstart said:

Better get a 125i instead ! This is THE collector IMO.
Last 3L N/A coupe from BMW...
It just need to be detuned to 130i specs (218 to 274-280HP) as originally it's got nothing above 5K.
The engine is 80kg (!) lighter than the turbo one, so on track it's as fast as a 135i but it doesn't understeer unlike it.
The reliability is top-notch too (did 100'000 km with no problem), it's super efficient too (8.5 l/100km AVG in my case over 8 years).
With a performance exhaust the sound is just perfect.
And finally the diff crown is NOT welded which means that you can mount directly an LSD without changing the whole rear axle (I had a Quaiffe in mine, jsut perfect).
If you can, get one without electric steering as it was an option.

135 was too expensive, eh?

[aeropilot]

JackReacher said:

What's the consensus on how these drive compared to the more recent m235i? Presumably it's a touch ligher and has hydraulic steering in its favour.

I have a m240i on order and it's interesting to hear about the modifications that transformed the 135i coupe, as they could have a similar effect on the m240. LSD and better dampers seem important.

I test drove a M235 when it first came out with a view to chopping in my 135i for one.

I kept the 135i

M235/M240 is technically a much better car, better chassis and suspension out of the box (one I tested had adaptive specced) and its more spacious inside, more kit blah, blah etc.
BUT.....it just didn't feel as 'raw' and as hooligan as my 135i - and I hated the electric steering and I didn't think the 8ZF auto was a good as the DCT. I thought the m235 was closer to a E46 3-Series than the E82 1-Series in feel.

If you haven't driven an older E82 135i then you'll love a M240.

But it wasn't going to be a replacement for my 135i, so I kept that another 3 years!

[aeropilot]

Player1pressstart said:

If you can, get one without electric steering as it was an option.

That's a tall order.

I don't think there will be many 125i out there specced with the variable steering.

I've only ever seen one for sale, and as they only sold about 1300 or so 125i (about the same number as 135i and 130i) in the UK, I'd be surprised if more than 5% were specced with the optional steering....??

[daveco]

aeropilot said:

RobM77 said:

Player1pressstart said:

Better get a 125i instead ! This is THE collector IMO.
Last 3L N/A coupe from BMW...
It just need to be detuned to 130i specs (218 to 274-280HP) as originally it's got nothing above 5K.
The engine is 80kg (!) lighter than the turbo one, so on track it's as fast as a 135i but it doesn't understeer unlike it.
The reliability is top-notch too (did 100'000 km with no problem), it's super efficient too (8.5 l/100km AVG in my case over 8 years).
With a performance exhaust the sound is just perfect.
And finally the diff crown is NOT welded which means that you can mount directly an LSD without changing the whole rear axle (I had a Quaiffe in mine, jsut perfect).
If you can, get one without electric steering as it was an option.

80KG?! bloody hell. Do you have a link proving that? If true that's extraordinary.

It is significantly lighter, but not 80kg

From memory, as not got access to the actual figures at the moment, and not the time to Google it all........
The N52 engine in the 125i/130i was around 160kg.
The N54 in the 135i was around 195kg.
The N55 in the 135i was around 190kg.

According to Parkers there is a 50kg difference between the 125 and 135.

The 125 weighs in at 1405kg.

[aeropilot]

daveco said:

aeropilot said:

RobM77 said:

Player1pressstart said:

Better get a 125i instead ! This is THE collector IMO.
Last 3L N/A coupe from BMW...
It just need to be detuned to 130i specs (218 to 274-280HP) as originally it's got nothing above 5K.
The engine is 80kg (!) lighter than the turbo one, so on track it's as fast as a 135i but it doesn't understeer unlike it.
The reliability is top-notch too (did 100'000 km with no problem), it's super efficient too (8.5 l/100km AVG in my case over 8 years).
With a performance exhaust the sound is just perfect.
And finally the diff crown is NOT welded which means that you can mount directly an LSD without changing the whole rear axle (I had a Quaiffe in mine, jsut perfect).
If you can, get one without electric steering as it was an option.

80KG?! bloody hell. Do you have a link proving that? If true that's extraordinary.

It is significantly lighter, but not 80kg

From memory, as not got access to the actual figures at the moment, and not the time to Google it all........
The N52 engine in the 125i/130i was around 160kg.
The N54 in the 135i was around 195kg.
The N55 in the 135i was around 190kg.

According to Parkers there is a 50kg difference between the 125 and 135.

The 125 weighs in at 1405kg.

That's total weight, not all down to engine.

As mentioned, 125i has small 'pumpkin' rear diff housing, also smaller brakes, and other odds and ends, which will account for the extra 15 or so kg difference.

[3yardy3]

jelluzz said:

N54 was twin turbo, from 07 to the middle of 2010. Around June 2010 they went to the single twin scroll N55.

N54 was the one with all the issues, wastegate rattle etc. N55's main issue was the plastic water pump.

Although great cars, this one is poor spec (no xenons, idrive etc.)

Pick of the range for me would be N55, with the DCT gearbox (N55 only) but then i do own one...

Not entirely true, I'm an owner of a 59 plate 335i coupe (Highline) with a DCT gearbox, the last range to be built before it was replaced with the N55

[aeropilot]

3yardy3 said:

jelluzz said:

N54 was twin turbo, from 07 to the middle of 2010. Around June 2010 they went to the single twin scroll N55.

N54 was the one with all the issues, wastegate rattle etc. N55's main issue was the plastic water pump.

Although great cars, this one is poor spec (no xenons, idrive etc.)

Pick of the range for me would be N55, with the DCT gearbox (N55 only) but then i do own one...

Not entirely true, I'm an owner of a 59 plate 335i coupe (Highline) with a DCT gearbox, the last range to be built before it was replaced with the N55

It is true....this thread is about the 135i NOT the 335i, and on the E82 135i the DCT was never available with the N54, only the N55.

[selym]

scherzkeks said:

Player1pressstart said:

Better get a 125i instead ! This is THE collector IMO.
Last 3L N/A coupe from BMW...
It just need to be detuned to 130i specs (218 to 274-280HP) as originally it's got nothing above 5K.
The engine is 80kg (!) lighter than the turbo one, so on track it's as fast as a 135i but it doesn't understeer unlike it.
The reliability is top-notch too (did 100'000 km with no problem), it's super efficient too (8.5 l/100km AVG in my case over 8 years).
With a performance exhaust the sound is just perfect.
And finally the diff crown is NOT welded which means that you can mount directly an LSD without changing the whole rear axle (I had a Quaiffe in mine, jsut perfect).
If you can, get one without electric steering as it was an option.

135 was too expensive, eh?

Totally different cars really. I'd imagine choosing 125i would be a motoring choice, not a financial choice as they were pretty close on price (2nd hand of course).

[GregK2]

I picked up one of these recently and am really enjoying it.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Jimbobr]

125i all the way had one for 2.5 years its all about the naturally aspirated engine, disconnect the vacuum pipe form the rear box to get a lovely sound out the back, swap the alloys for a set of Z4 to get the wider fonts (that's the only reason that the R32 was faster round the Topgear track than the 130i 115's on the font) and enjoy the responsive engine, and other drivers not expecting that noise from a normal looking 1 series.

[Player1pressstart]

aeropilot said:

That's total weight, not all down to engine.

As mentioned, 125i has small 'pumpkin' rear diff housing, also smaller brakes, and other odds and ends, which will account for the extra 15 or so kg difference.

My bad, that's right. The difference is not all on the engine. The discs are bigger too on the 135i. On track the 125i OEM ones did fade after 2 laps...

But I've never regretted not getting the 135 in 8 years. Especially whenever I heard about the engine failures.

[selym]

Jimbobr said:

125i all the way had one for 2.5 years its all about the naturally aspirated engine, disconnect the vacuum pipe form the rear box to get a lovely sound out the back, swap the alloys for a set of Z4 to get the wider fonts (that's the only reason that the R32 was faster round the Topgear track than the 130i 115's on the font) and enjoy the responsive engine, and other drivers not expecting that noise from a normal looking 1 series.

When you say 125i all the way, you mean 130i all the way?!!

The LCI 130i has the wider alloys but not sure if the fronts are wider than pre-facelift........I have 225 fronts and 255 rears though.......grip is not an issue at either end.

[s m]

Wolands Advocate said:

I bought a new 135i coupe with a manual box but otherwise most of the options list back in 2009, which was the earlier version with the N54 engine but with the updated non-folding iDrive (massive improvement on the older version). It was a cracking little car. In the end slightly too little (although more practical that you might imagine with four decent seats, which is why I eventually changed it for something else. But drive-wise, it was great, and I got many compliments on what a subtle and tasteful car it was (mine was Monaco Blue with dark brown (Terra) leather).

I shall paraphrase what I wrote about it at the time:

"While I wouldn’t go so far as to describe this as a Jekyll and Hyde car, it definitely has two sides to it. The first is one of surprising maturity – the large-capacity straight-six and weighty feel of the controls endow it with the effortless feel of an expensive luxury express. You can see why the likes of Evo and Autocar were disappointed that it wasn’t the hooligan machine they were hoping for. In sixth gear, it devours trans-European motorway distances in quiet cruise-controlled comfort. With that in mind, this could probably be a perfectly nice car with an automatic gearbox. But that would be a waste. Because, if you prod past the initial stages of throttle aperture, the car switches into an alert, growling accomplice, ready to streak up a challenging road with a previously unsuspected snarl.

Hooligan? Perhaps not. But it nevertheless certainly has a darker edge beneath that demure facade. On rockface-edged roads, this is a car where you open the sunroof and windows to hear the rise/fall crescendo of howls and growls. The sort of noise that encourages you to seize the car by the scruff of its neck. It doesn’t shriek through the upper rev-range quite the way the older BMW straight sixes do, but it’s still pretty special.

And make no mistake, when you want it to, this car goes like stink for a “baby” coupe and will show a clean pair of heels to many more overtly sporting machines. Because the performance is -unless you deliberately provoke it- delivered in such a seamless wave, it’s easy to feel that the car isn’t actually as urgent as the statistics suggest. But it is and a glance at the speedo can be a shock if you aren’t concentrating.

I also ended up having one of BMW's Performance exhausts fitted – improved the sound even further. Gave it a lovely burble at idle, a deep purposeful sound in normal operation, a distinctly old-school pop and crackle on the overrun and a full-on “ripping calico” shriek if really provoked that wouldn’t disgrace something much more exotic. And from cold, the almighty din it created in the garage was almost embarrassing. It also changed the feel of the car – it felt much more urgent, which is presumably largely due to the fact that the added soundtrack made you feel much closer to the mechanicals, and rather less clinically modern.

So, yes, if you can get yourself a well-cared for example for under £15k, it could be a great choice.

Edited by Wolands Advocate on Thursday 13th July 19:39

Nice update Woland - always enjoyed reading your updates on the old forum

[moffat]

Loved both of my 135i's.

Second one was a manual with the BMW MP Short Shift Kit, the BMW MP exhaust and had a JB3 fitted for 370ish bhp.

The N54 was a better engine than the N55 and only real issue was the HPFP. BMW M division chose the N54 over the N55 for the 1M for a reason!

The hydraulic steering was a good and the brakes (6 piston at the front) were good too.

It did have a tendency to understeer more than it did to oversteer though.

I highly under-rated car in my opinion.

[Wolands Advocate]

s m said:

Nice update Woland - always enjoyed reading your updates on the old forum

Thanks. The worst thing about the 135i coupe was that I owned one when the 1M came out... I had a good go in the 1M pre-launch and liked it a lot, and could have had a slot, but the idea of paying double for a 1M what the 135i was then worth trade really put me off because the two cars didn't feel all that very different to me. I wouldn't quantify it as night and day.

Obviously it wouldn't have done had I known that the 1M would go on to effectively not depreciate.

• *Goes off to find a wall to bang my head against...again***

[Jimbobr]

selym said:

Jimbobr said:

125i all the way had one for 2.5 years its all about the naturally aspirated engine, disconnect the vacuum pipe form the rear box to get a lovely sound out the back, swap the alloys for a set of Z4 to get the wider fonts (that's the only reason that the R32 was faster round the Topgear track than the 130i 115's on the font) and enjoy the responsive engine, and other drivers not expecting that noise from a normal looking 1 series.

When you say 125i all the way, you mean 130i all the way?!!

The LCI 130i has the wider alloys but not sure if the fronts are wider than pre-facelift........I have 225 fronts and 255 rears though.......grip is not an issue at either end.

Nope 125i better coupe looks, just need the remap to make it a 130i to unlock the triple stage intake

[RobM77]

Wolands Advocate said:

s m said:

Nice update Woland - always enjoyed reading your updates on the old forum

Thanks. The worst thing about the 135i coupe was that I owned one when the 1M came out... I had a good go in the 1M pre-launch and liked it a lot, and could have had a slot, but the idea of paying double for a 1M what the 135i was then worth trade really put me off because the two cars didn't feel all that very different to me. I wouldn't quantify it as night and day.

Obviously it wouldn't have done had I known that the 1M would go on to effectively not depreciate.

• *Goes off to find a wall to bang my head against...again***

I've found this with a lot of M cars, especially those that share the same basic engine configuration. They often only feel significantly different when you're really pushing on and can feel the greater power at high revs, the rear diff, the different suspension really working etc. The only BMW M car I've driven that didn't 'suffer' from this (depending how you look at it!) was the E90 M3 because the V8 engine was unique to that model and was always obvious at any speed (although overall it was the most refined M car). The E46 in contrast felt to me like a 330ci unless I pushed it. Given the high running costs that you're dragging round with you everywhere with such a car, for this reason I've always chosen to do 99% of my mundane miles in something less special and use the money saved to run something very different indeed, like my Caterham, 2-Eleven or my current Formula Renault. I've done the maths and for me this is actually cheaper than running an M3 all the time. The choice of two cars does of course depend on the driving I'm doing - I used to owned a 330ci/328i and an Elise, because I did a lot of twisty A and B road driving from day to day and could really use the nicer everyday car, or the Elise, whereas now we've moved house, 95% of my driving is at a steady 70mph on the motorway, so I wouldn't use an Elise at all. As such, I now go to even more extremes between the two cars to get the best out of them in the environments that I use them in.

[selym]

Jimbobr said:

Nope 125i better coupe looks, just need the remap to make it a 130i to unlock the triple stage intake

Err, there'll only be one 130i and no amount of play acting as one will cut it!