RE: Hyundai i30 N full details
Discussion
I'm sure it will be a very competent, practical driver's car but, frankly, so are all the other 250-300bhp 2.0l turbo hot hatches on sale at the moment. Obviously the proof will be in the driving but, on paper, this car seems to offer nothing which I can't buy from several other places already or about the same price.
Perhaps its not fair of me to complain because it's hard to think what else they could have done, and a generic hot hatch is better than no hot hatch at all, but I'm struggling to get excited about this one.
Perhaps its not fair of me to complain because it's hard to think what else they could have done, and a generic hot hatch is better than no hot hatch at all, but I'm struggling to get excited about this one.
Probably a repost but this video has a bit on the car's development, I found it quite interesting at least!
https://youtu.be/2sRKNrQJlxQ
https://youtu.be/2sRKNrQJlxQ
Onehp said:
What matters on PH ^^
Price
Badge
Looks
(can't possibly be THAT good to drive now can it?)
Well not quite. Comparison with a Golf GTI is very valid, and that vehicle line has decades of engineering and fine tuning (certainly since Mk5) to get it right. And they have produced one hell of a car with it. All those other points are necessary, but are you saying that the cars that have been mentioned as rivals are NOT good to drive?Price
Badge
Looks
(can't possibly be THAT good to drive now can it?)
It's a bold move by Hyundai to come into the hot hatch market, but there are so many rivals at this price point that it is a risk to make a decision to buy the i30. Can it compare with the Leon Cupra 300, Megane RS, Focus ST, Golf GTI, Peugeot 308 GTI, Civic Type R (just) as front drive hatches?
Also, I would expect residuals to be very poor, especially compared to the Golf, Leon and Civic so would see Hyundai taking a fair hit if they try to match on PCP/PCH.
I think Hyundai should have tried to break the mould a bit and go their own way to gain some hot hatch pedigree, then try and bring it to the big boys. A light and feisty i20, sat around the 15-16k mark would have a bit less competition, and might be a way to get buyers on board.
I really do not get the slagging off of the price even under 30k you won't have to option it a lot as most of these manufacturers include a lot of kit unlike most of ze Germans.
In regards to price the standard new GTI is £28k and only 230PS, the standard of this is a bit more. Weight wise unladen a GTI standard is 1387kg, gross vehicle weight is the best part of 1900kg....
If we then take the performance pack variants the golf is now £30k and only 245PS. The Hyundai has more and is virtually the same weight.
I actually really like the design, I agree it has some influencing factors from other cars, but what else has as well? I mean the new E PAce Jaguar is an SUV trying to look like a F Type!
The only "real" problems a car like this face is badge snobs and the monthly payments being right. Unfortunately on that last point I think you will find some issues. If the figures are right though, I could not give a toss and as someone else said there is a lot of people from the more premium motorsport brands moving to these companies now!
In regards to price the standard new GTI is £28k and only 230PS, the standard of this is a bit more. Weight wise unladen a GTI standard is 1387kg, gross vehicle weight is the best part of 1900kg....
If we then take the performance pack variants the golf is now £30k and only 245PS. The Hyundai has more and is virtually the same weight.
I actually really like the design, I agree it has some influencing factors from other cars, but what else has as well? I mean the new E PAce Jaguar is an SUV trying to look like a F Type!
The only "real" problems a car like this face is badge snobs and the monthly payments being right. Unfortunately on that last point I think you will find some issues. If the figures are right though, I could not give a toss and as someone else said there is a lot of people from the more premium motorsport brands moving to these companies now!
Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 14th July 07:55
cuprabob said:
I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where they were brainstorming to come up with a performance brand designator as they went through the alphabet discussing the spare letters and coming up with "N" and then coming up with "it symbolises a chicane". I hope the marketing people got a bonus.
Actually the first thing I thought when I read the article was good on them for not doing what everyone else does. GT, R, Black etcDJM7691 said:
Well not quite. Comparison with a Golf GTI is very valid, and that vehicle line has decades of engineering and fine tuning (certainly since Mk5) to get it right. (Etc.)
There was no mention whatsoever on how either car is to drive at all, just downplaying the Hyundai on half know facts of price and disapproval of lack of badge value and looks. So basically we get the cars we deserve, and so we will forever continue to bemoan that modern cars ain't any good to drive for the enthusiast (I drive a GTI sibling myself, they are good but very much a comfy easy to drive compromise, too)... knebworth01 said:
I was expecting something a bit wilder after reading about this in EVO a while back.
Looks a bit tame, and why the two power options, just make a car with all the beans and be done with it.
Tell that to the Germans... Looks a bit tame, and why the two power options, just make a car with all the beans and be done with it.
Lower power versions can appeal to those for whom the badge is more important, ahum. Or price....
In some cases it can also make a difference in insurance and such.
RamboLambo said:
Because its better if you are not a badge snob
Just for the record, i don't see the problem if you're a badge snob. I think that, if you're a car person, you don't have to automatically dismiss the more expensive and snazzy brands because of this. That is a very narrow-minded view to have, if you ask me. Obviously, it does work the other way round, aswell.At the other end of the scale, there are non-car people that see cars as just objects to show off and make them feel like they've done well for themselves. The kind of individuals to buy Beemers of some sort just to tell their friends and family that they drive a BMW which, apparently, is impressive to other people.
There will always be an alluring quality to both types of people for the more exotic and prestige brands out there but just for entirely different reasons.
dunnoreally said:
I'm sure it will be a very competent, practical driver's car but, frankly, so are all the other 250-300bhp 2.0l turbo hot hatches on sale at the moment. Obviously the proof will be in the driving but, on paper, this car seems to offer nothing which I can't buy from several other places already or about the same price.
Perhaps its not fair of me to complain because it's hard to think what else they could have done, and a generic hot hatch is better than no hot hatch at all, but I'm struggling to get excited about this one.
As much as I like the idea of this car, I agree. It's about £5k overpriced.Perhaps its not fair of me to complain because it's hard to think what else they could have done, and a generic hot hatch is better than no hot hatch at all, but I'm struggling to get excited about this one.
mhj360 said:
Prices set to be from circa £25k. Badge snobs and depreciation should make these a cracking second hand buy, as long as Hyundai are able to sell them in the first place. Could be a good alternative to the Focus ST, 308 GTI and upcoming RS Megane. Look forward to the reviews.
Second-hand buy, maybe, but then you will have to sell it on, while at the same time driving in that interior/exterior, which is of unknown quality, as is the rest of the car.Edited by mhj360 on Thursday 13th July 16:09
Too many question marks, so the prime choice of second hand hothatch for me - VW GTI.
ambuletz said:
serioiusly, why do car designs look so similar? it's like the group 6 that got a 1st in car design degree dissertation at uni all took the idea onto their graduate job working for a manufacturer, only they're all at different manufacturers.
headlights look like a ford focus
front grille is any audi
front side grilles remind me of an A-class (or maybe something else)
side profile from a 308
rear lights look like the older golf mk6 or something else.
the placement of those rear foglights is really bad.and sort of reminds me of a porsche 911.
So imagine starting with a clean sheet to design a car in this segment.headlights look like a ford focus
front grille is any audi
front side grilles remind me of an A-class (or maybe something else)
side profile from a 308
rear lights look like the older golf mk6 or something else.
the placement of those rear foglights is really bad.and sort of reminds me of a porsche 911.
- Packaging dictates overall size/layout/hard points as you don't want it to have less space than rivals.
- Global regulations dictate positioning of crumple zones, pedestrian safety stuff, firewalls, wide radius edges, light positions etc, etc.
Industry-standard CAD packages, and wind-tunnel dictate airflow around the car on the move as it needs to be stable and predictable at speed.
- You want parts of it to heat up quickly but not overheat, whilst other bits of it need to be kept cool, requiring movement of air and coolant to help with thermal management.
- It cannot be significantly more costly to own and run than rivals, so everything needs to be servicable/replaceable under warranty.
- You want to sell it cheaply enough that people will buy it, but expensively enough that you can make a profit.
- You want to be able to manufacture it easily and amortise as much as possible across other models/platforms/segments.
- Your suppliers almost certainly supply your competitors.
- You want it to look similar to your other products so that existing customers might trade up to it, and you don't want it to look too different from rivals in case new customers don't buy it.
There will be loads of other considerations that basically dictate that you're going to offer something very similar to everyone else.
Unfortunate, but true.
At 30k, it is competing with hyper hatches rather than hot hatches - Civic Type R, Focus RS, etc. I think it might struggle to attract the sort of people that buy those cars with the bland styling and underpowered engine (in comparison) - the Golf is bland and sells, but helped by the 'premium' badge and the cheap lease deals.
Edited by Integroo on Friday 14th July 13:10
DJM7691 said:
Well not quite. Comparison with a Golf GTI is very valid, and that vehicle line has decades of engineering and fine tuning (certainly since Mk5) to get it right. And they have produced one hell of a car with it. All those other points are necessary, but are you saying that the cars that have been mentioned as rivals are NOT good to drive?
It's a bold move by Hyundai to come into the hot hatch market, but there are so many rivals at this price point that it is a risk to make a decision to buy the i30. Can it compare with the Leon Cupra 300, Megane RS, Focus ST, Golf GTI, Peugeot 308 GTI, Civic Type R (just) as front drive hatches?
Also, I would expect residuals to be very poor, especially compared to the Golf, Leon and Civic so would see Hyundai taking a fair hit if they try to match on PCP/PCH.
I think Hyundai should have tried to break the mould a bit and go their own way to gain some hot hatch pedigree, then try and bring it to the big boys. A light and feisty i20, sat around the 15-16k mark would have a bit less competition, and might be a way to get buyers on board.
The thing is that the Golf GTI isn't the best drivers hatch the Megane has ruled the roost on that front with the ST ahead of it, the premium you pay for it doesn't come back to you as the ST & GTI sell for similar money on the used market. Is the Golf a bad car? Of course it isn't it's a very good hot hatch but if Hyundai make a better drivers hatch with good ergonomics then why shouldn't it sell? Apart from the fact it's wearing the wrong badge. It's a bold move by Hyundai to come into the hot hatch market, but there are so many rivals at this price point that it is a risk to make a decision to buy the i30. Can it compare with the Leon Cupra 300, Megane RS, Focus ST, Golf GTI, Peugeot 308 GTI, Civic Type R (just) as front drive hatches?
Also, I would expect residuals to be very poor, especially compared to the Golf, Leon and Civic so would see Hyundai taking a fair hit if they try to match on PCP/PCH.
I think Hyundai should have tried to break the mould a bit and go their own way to gain some hot hatch pedigree, then try and bring it to the big boys. A light and feisty i20, sat around the 15-16k mark would have a bit less competition, and might be a way to get buyers on board.
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