Notes from the road - Audi A5
Discussion
Murphy16 said:
It's nice to read a review that has some character to it unlike the copy and paste reviews you get from bigger car websites. Keep it up!
The car websites/mags are now virtually worthless as a source of objective info on a car, they will all have given the Audi 4 starts and maybe criticised it very weakly. I've driven one of these in S-Line spec this week and it is as horrible as the OP says, really quite remarkably inept. I've given up even reading reviews, if I'm interested I'll try it for myself and make my own mind up.Reviews from actual people who aren't depending on the kindness of the industry for their salary and all inclusive jollies, like the OP, would be the exception.
I don't have any issue with a car reviewer having pre conceived ideas about a car, as long as they're honest about what they find. Guess those of us who have driven a fair few cars have had that experience both ways, ie getting the keys to something with eager anticipation or alternatively a heavy heart, only to find oneself disappointed / won over. At least those findings are honest ones.
Over the years can remember a few of those, a Fiat Mirafiori Twin cam with throaty Webers/ Dellortos? being one example, one of the first C-Max from Ford being another that was better than expected. Ones going the other way, usually from VAG, though remember being very brassed off by an Alfa 156 simply due to the unreliability. Had it a week, it was in the garage three times with don't drive me any further warnings on the dash. Last time threw the keys back and got in a knackered Escort diesel van, oh the pleasure of just knowing you were going to get to the destination.
Over the years can remember a few of those, a Fiat Mirafiori Twin cam with throaty Webers/ Dellortos? being one example, one of the first C-Max from Ford being another that was better than expected. Ones going the other way, usually from VAG, though remember being very brassed off by an Alfa 156 simply due to the unreliability. Had it a week, it was in the garage three times with don't drive me any further warnings on the dash. Last time threw the keys back and got in a knackered Escort diesel van, oh the pleasure of just knowing you were going to get to the destination.
Note for the OP - this is fantastic, more of these please (and I drive a 60 plate A5!)
I've just come off doing 18 months of trade plating (won't say who for but many trips to Bruntingthorpe, Kempston, Corby, Cold Meece, Long Bennington & Chipping Warden in the mix!) and thought about doing this myself but also setting up a camera in car to record thoughts whilst driving as they came to me, decided against that as it would've taken ages to setup and take down each time
I've just come off doing 18 months of trade plating (won't say who for but many trips to Bruntingthorpe, Kempston, Corby, Cold Meece, Long Bennington & Chipping Warden in the mix!) and thought about doing this myself but also setting up a camera in car to record thoughts whilst driving as they came to me, decided against that as it would've taken ages to setup and take down each time
W124 said:
I respect your opinion but stand by mine. The A5 is a very poor car, in isolation and in relation to the competition.
I wasn't expecting much. And I got less. I'm not anti Audi - the S3 is a great car, the TT in some specs is very good. The MLB cars I've driven are pretty poor.
As to car play - To me, yes, fine but surely how the the thing drives. How it moves - much more important no? The A5 is very cheap to lease because of the insanity of motor industry finance. That's it's Trump card.
Viewed as a product, it is dire. Let me put it to you like this. If I had a choice and could drive to Aberdeen in that exact A5 or my battered old Lexus, a car worth not far off 1% of the Audi's list price - I'd take the Lexus. Honestly.
The S3 is a great car?I wasn't expecting much. And I got less. I'm not anti Audi - the S3 is a great car, the TT in some specs is very good. The MLB cars I've driven are pretty poor.
As to car play - To me, yes, fine but surely how the the thing drives. How it moves - much more important no? The A5 is very cheap to lease because of the insanity of motor industry finance. That's it's Trump card.
Viewed as a product, it is dire. Let me put it to you like this. If I had a choice and could drive to Aberdeen in that exact A5 or my battered old Lexus, a car worth not far off 1% of the Audi's list price - I'd take the Lexus. Honestly.
No it is not. It's as dull to drive as most other Audi's.
Dull is okay for me in a family car, but the S3 should be far more invigorating and involving.
It's one of the worst "hot hatches" out there.
dme123 said:
Reviews from actual people who aren't depending on the kindness of the industry for their salary and all inclusive jollies, like the OP, would be the exception.
Same with everything though, I'm into my video games and films, and sometimes they'll be universally panned by user reviews like metacritic or rotten tomatoes etc yet the big magazine and website reviews are glowing. If they slate it, they wont be invited to 'review' the new one when it comes out. CraigV6 said:
The S3 is a great car?
No it is not. It's as dull to drive as most other Audi's.
Dull is okay for me in a family car, but the S3 should be far more invigorating and involving.
It's one of the worst "hot hatches" out there.
Sorry, just not the case with the 8V. It could do with a touch more driver involvement perhaps but it does everything else very well. Perhaps it depends on your opinion, but whether you like it or not does not make it a bad car.No it is not. It's as dull to drive as most other Audi's.
Dull is okay for me in a family car, but the S3 should be far more invigorating and involving.
It's one of the worst "hot hatches" out there.
Ultrafunkula said:
Sorry, just not the case with the 8V. It could do with a touch more driver involvement perhaps but it does everything else very well. Perhaps it depends on your opinion, but whether you like it or not does not make it a bad car.
We shall agree to disagree.Mag ride improves things a touch, but it's completely soulless, lacks in finesse, has no feedback, understeers badly.........Haldex, terrible steering and poor damping the sources of the problem, that quickly makes it blend into the typical dullness of most Audi's.
It's a great point and squirt car if that's what floats your boat.
Now trying to drag this back into the realms of "On Topic"......
I actually appreciate my wife's A5 more than I did either of the 8v S3's I had.
I have no expectation for her car to be anything other than a comfortable, well kitted out, family cruiser, it doesn't need to excite, engage or handle like a dream, so it does the job perfectly.
The S3 was my car which I like to be way more involving, with an element of fun factor thrown in and some character for good measure. Such a let down!
You've hit the nail right on the head here. Audi, and the whole Volkswagen group are no longer about selling cars. They're about selling finance deals. They're a bank, and cars are just a (very clever) means to an end. A commodity with which to move finance deals. They've realised that if they inflate the value of their assets they can shift more finance deals. They hook their customers in by selling something which seems to have a luxury factor to justify the price, but in reality all the bells, whistle, buttons and driving modes are a very cheap way of making the car feel like a premium product.
The real cost of producing a luxurious driving machine is in the design, engineering, and development of a car. This includes chassis design, packaging, testing and everything that goes with it. The electronics and chintz are cheap to produce (...see the Chinese electronics industry), and designed to last only for the lifetime of the warranty, because that's the only liability VAG are responsible for. Beyond that have you seen the bills which cars like the OPs can throw at you you? The whole thing is cyclical though because the owner, outside of warranty, is prepared to pay big to keep their car on the road because of it's resale value - direct result of the inflated original OTR price and resultant (perceived) luxury status. Not because the car is some marvel of modern engineering.
I fear that Mercedes have very much followed suit, with BMW following closely behind. JLR are at least still very much influenced, if not lead, lead by engineers and it show through their superior products.
I could sit here and rant about my own Audi A4 but I shan't. It a heap of chintzy s
t, but I just see it as transport these days and avoid driving it as often as possible. It's no longer about making great cars. It's about making cars that sell finance deals.
ETA: Great post OP. Refreshing to hear someone with a fresh way of sharing their opinion and not just regurgitating Internet hyperbole.
The real cost of producing a luxurious driving machine is in the design, engineering, and development of a car. This includes chassis design, packaging, testing and everything that goes with it. The electronics and chintz are cheap to produce (...see the Chinese electronics industry), and designed to last only for the lifetime of the warranty, because that's the only liability VAG are responsible for. Beyond that have you seen the bills which cars like the OPs can throw at you you? The whole thing is cyclical though because the owner, outside of warranty, is prepared to pay big to keep their car on the road because of it's resale value - direct result of the inflated original OTR price and resultant (perceived) luxury status. Not because the car is some marvel of modern engineering.
I fear that Mercedes have very much followed suit, with BMW following closely behind. JLR are at least still very much influenced, if not lead, lead by engineers and it show through their superior products.
I could sit here and rant about my own Audi A4 but I shan't. It a heap of chintzy s
t, but I just see it as transport these days and avoid driving it as often as possible. It's no longer about making great cars. It's about making cars that sell finance deals.ETA: Great post OP. Refreshing to hear someone with a fresh way of sharing their opinion and not just regurgitating Internet hyperbole.
Edited by rockandrollmark on Friday 21st July 23:58
rockandrollmark said:
You've hit the nail right on the head here. Audi, and the whole Volkswagen group are no longer about selling cars. They're about selling finance deals. They're a bank, and cars are just a (very clever) means to an end. A commodity with which to move finance deals. They've realised that if they inflate the value of their assets they can shift more finance deals. They hook their customers in by selling something which seems to have a luxury factor to justify the price, but in reality all the bells, whistle, buttons and driving modes are a very cheap way of making the car feel like a premium product.
The real cost of producing a luxurious driving machine is in the design, engineering, and development of a car. This includes chassis design, packaging, testing and everything that goes with it. The electronics and chintz are cheap to produce (...see the Chinese electronics industry), and designed to last only for the lifetime of the warranty, because that's the only liability VAG are responsible for. Beyond that have you seen the bills which cars like the OPs can throw at you you? The whole thing is cyclical though because the owner, outside of warranty, is prepared to pay big to keep their car on the road because of it's resale value - direct result of the inflated original OTR price and resultant (perceived) luxury status. Not because the car is some marvel of modern engineering.
I fear that Mercedes have very much followed suit, with BMW following closely behind. JLR are at least still very much influenced, if not lead, lead by engineers and it show through their superior products.
I could sit here and rant about my own Audi A4 but I shan't. It a heap of chintzy st, but I just see it as transport these days and avoid driving it as often as possible. It's no longer about making great cars. It's about making cars that sell finance deals.
ETA: Great post OP. Refreshing to hear someone with a fresh way of sharing their opinion and not just regurgitating Internet hyperbole.
Reading that all you just have to sit there and nod throughout - in the knowledge that the points you made are 100% (sadly) true. The real cost of producing a luxurious driving machine is in the design, engineering, and development of a car. This includes chassis design, packaging, testing and everything that goes with it. The electronics and chintz are cheap to produce (...see the Chinese electronics industry), and designed to last only for the lifetime of the warranty, because that's the only liability VAG are responsible for. Beyond that have you seen the bills which cars like the OPs can throw at you you? The whole thing is cyclical though because the owner, outside of warranty, is prepared to pay big to keep their car on the road because of it's resale value - direct result of the inflated original OTR price and resultant (perceived) luxury status. Not because the car is some marvel of modern engineering.
I fear that Mercedes have very much followed suit, with BMW following closely behind. JLR are at least still very much influenced, if not lead, lead by engineers and it show through their superior products.
I could sit here and rant about my own Audi A4 but I shan't. It a heap of chintzy s
t, but I just see it as transport these days and avoid driving it as often as possible. It's no longer about making great cars. It's about making cars that sell finance deals.ETA: Great post OP. Refreshing to hear someone with a fresh way of sharing their opinion and not just regurgitating Internet hyperbole.
Edited by rockandrollmark on Friday 21st July 23:58
Interesting as someone who owns a currently Vauxhall and previously owned an Audi. Vauxhall gets more amount of hate on PH and EVO forms than any other brand (see comments on this week's announced GSI Insignia) but at least a Vauxhall knows it is FWD, A to B White goods and its owners largely treat it accordingly. Unlike so many Audi drivers who have swallowed the marketing hook line and sinker.
I really don't get the love for the Audi brand from the punters and the motoring media. BMW yes, I get it, because they are still largely RWD, driver orientated packages, but as for Audi, its just a FWD product like any other, but with flashier wheels and bone hard ride quality.
zeDuffMan said:
If you didn't like the first why did you get a second?
Had a Sportback auto and knew it wasn't for me. Auto mixed with Haldex is a mind-numingly dull prospect.Back to the dealer and tried a manual saloon with magnetic ride which they had in stock.
Definite improvement, but still not for me.
I don't drive an Audi now, tried a few, driven many more, but they are pretty much all abject if you want engagement, involvement, package.
I agree with a lot of what's said on here, but also think that the A5 is a good family package.
Definitely not a car if you want an exciting drive, but not a bad family wagon at all.
I currently own a b7 S4 and the newer generations of Audis aren't very interesting or impressive.
Quite like the OP's review, I do think he makes a valid point of bling over substance. As the cheaper manufacturers have upped their games it has become harder for premium brands to distinguish themselves on quality.
The result is they add bling.
Audi's have always been known for over-servo'd brakes, dull chassis, etc so they are being consistent.
Quite like the OP's review, I do think he makes a valid point of bling over substance. As the cheaper manufacturers have upped their games it has become harder for premium brands to distinguish themselves on quality.
The result is they add bling.
Audi's have always been known for over-servo'd brakes, dull chassis, etc so they are being consistent.
CraigV6 said:
We shall agree to disagree.
Mag ride improves things a touch, but it's completely soulless, lacks in finesse, has no feedback, understeers badly.........Haldex, terrible steering and poor damping the sources of the problem, that quickly makes it blend into the typical dullness of most Audi's.
It's a great point and squirt car if that's what floats your boat.
Fair enough as it's only your opinion, a different experience with the car then I have (not sure why you didn't go for BMW, sounds like more your sort of thing). Mag ride improves things a touch, but it's completely soulless, lacks in finesse, has no feedback, understeers badly.........Haldex, terrible steering and poor damping the sources of the problem, that quickly makes it blend into the typical dullness of most Audi's.
It's a great point and squirt car if that's what floats your boat.
I can see why Audi score four out of five in reviews, considering everything about the car. The S3, as I'm assuming is the case with other larger Audis, isolates the driver more than most cars which is probably why they are not so well received on a drivers forum. Superb grip though and with the S3 no understeer here (on Conti contact 5s with good tread). I don't really understand why people buy Audi's if they don't like the kind of car it is...
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