Van driver narrowly avoids cyclist

[TheRainMaker]

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

[WinstonWolf]

TheRainMaker said:

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

And he did give way, or do you think he should have waited for a bloke with a red flag?

[Integroo]

ojoman said:

ash73 said:

Agree, no idea why there needs to be any discussion.

Because there is a sentiment of "Poor, beleaguered motorist" on these forums and they can seemingly do nothing wrong. They are constantly "persecuted" and "maltreated" and seemingly wallow in a victim culture.

The very opposite in fact exists. You can take what examples you like:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/...

But penalties are quite often very light indeed.

Now don't get me wrong, I use the car, motorbike and cycle (not all at the same time) and good and bad exist using all forms of transport. However, it does seem that when I am using the bike the real throbbers start coming out of the woodwork. Alpha Taxis in Liverpool, you have a real gashrot in your ranks.

Yes, like the chapped link previously, who was fined only £1000 and got six points, for hitting a cyclist and leaving him with a fractured spine, fractures to both wrists and a fractured leg, claiming he didn't see him, because he had the sun in his eyes.

[Integroo]

TheRainMaker said:

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

He did give way. The van was barely even a speck in the horizon when he moved across. In any event, he was across and established in the far lane when the van driver changed lane into him. How can the cyclist be considered to have not given way to the van driver here?

[Ares]

TheRainMaker said:

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Which he did.

Next?

[WinstonWolf]

Ares said:

TheRainMaker said:

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Which he did.

Next?

I'm beginning to think there's some non-drivers here and it ain't those of us who also cycle...

[TheRainMaker]

Ares said:

TheRainMaker said:

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Which he did.

Next?

Clearly didn't due to the pace of the van as it passed him.

[Ares]

TheRainMaker said:

Ares said:

TheRainMaker said:

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Which he did.

Next?

Clearly didn't due to the pace of the van as it passed him.

Clearly did as he was well off the carriageway by the time the van got to his position?

Should he have waited for a personal invitation?

[Integroo]

TheRainMaker said:

Ares said:

TheRainMaker said:

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Which he did.

Next?

Clearly didn't due to the pace of the van as it passed him.

The van was in a different bloody lane. Also, just because the van passed at speed doesn't mean he didn't give way. The cyclist is never going to get up to the 50-70mph the van was travelling at.

[WinstonWolf]

Ares said:

TheRainMaker said:

Ares said:

TheRainMaker said:

Integroo said:

The cyclist cycled in a perfectly safe and predictable manner.

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Which he did.

Next?

Clearly didn't due to the pace of the van as it passed him.

Clearly did as he was well off the carriageway by the time the van got to his position?

Should he have waited for a personal invitation?

I've just watched it again and it doesn't look like the van's indicating until it's half way into the sliproad. Could be my eyes on this screen but it looks like a late call on the van drivers part?

[M-SportMatt]

TheRainMaker said:

He really didn't though did he...

Rule 172
The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

If you watch all the videos posted and take a look at the layout of the junction, he really did

Really

[Ares]

WinstonWolf said:

I've just watched it again and it doesn't look like the van's indicating until it's half way into the sliproad. Could be my eyes on this screen but it looks like a late call on the van drivers part?

....at best. Still suspect real answer is significantly more aggressive.

[FiF]

InitialDave said:

I'm surprised people seem to not understand about positioning yourself to discourage overtaking when it would be a danger. It's a fairly established technique for proactively managing other traffic to ensure your safety.

Basically, don't put yourself in a position to make it appear someone might get past. Either leave enough space people can definitely get past without endangering you, or make it so it's clear there's no overtaking opportunity at that point.

I would consider the cyclist's positioning in the filter lane to be correct for the situation at hand.

I'd have been in the right hand wheel track personally but hey ho.

On the question of positioning, off topic, but re position in a vehicle with oncoming cyclist and vehicles looking for the overtake.

In my experience if you try and position out to discourage them from overtaking, all it does is make their overtake even more fraught with danger for the cyclist. Too many have no restraint, they close pass the cyclist and as you're positioned out it's more risk to you too. Frustrating.

[InitialDave]

cb1965 said:

Well, it's what I do and I'm still here and don't have any whinging about a near miss as a result to contribute either.

None of that invalidates the logic behind the technique or makes it incorrect for the cyclist to use it here.

It's a method which can be chosen to be used, not a requirement as the only way that is safe, ever.

[TheRainMaker]

Ares said:

WinstonWolf said:

I've just watched it again and it doesn't look like the van's indicating until it's half way into the sliproad. Could be my eyes on this screen but it looks like a late call on the van drivers part?

....at best. Still suspect real answer is significantly more aggressive.

Nope, you are wrong.

Indicator on at 7 sec on the other side of the junction.

Frame 4 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

and again at 8 sec

Frame 1 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

just to show the difference between on and off....

Frame 2 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Van at 9 seconds.

Frame 3 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Van took around two seconds to clear the junction, bike didn't leave anywhere near enough room.

[DaveyBoyWonder]

cb1965 said:

Another non event being used by the media to play to the 'poor persecuted cyclist' fraternity! FFS, when will it end?

When one of these 'poor persecuted cyclist' types who is a father/brother/sister/mother/daughter/son etc gets killed by some sun reading piece of scum in a Transit? Possibly they'd look back on video footage like this and say that without a doubt WVM was at fault and he goes away for murder/manslaughter for a long time.

What might be nice would be if the police had the resources to be able to follow things like this up with the video evidence and give WVM a talking to and issue him with some kind of warning for 'buzzing' a cyclist, seemingly on purpose. It may make him think twice about doing it again and the cyclist not being as lucky next time.

[M-SportMatt]

TheRainMaker said:

Nope, you are wrong.

Indicator on at 7 sec on the other side of the junction.

Frame 4 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

and again at 8 sec

Frame 1 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

just to show the difference between on and off....

Frame 2 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Van at 9 seconds.

Frame 3 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Van took around two seconds to clear the junction, bike didn't leave anywhere near enough room.

Not sure of your point, the cyclist started moving as the van was barely in sight, should he have used extra sensory perception or 'the force' to know the van was coming?

as you can see the cyclist was moving as the van comes into sight, pause at 1 second https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtBrCM3wggU what else can the cyclist do apart from not use the junction at all?

It took a further 10 seconds for the van to draw alongside, all the time while being in full sight. 10 seconds is a big distance at 50 mph (225 metres), the van had ample time to behave properly.

Edited by M-SportMatt on Thursday 20th July 17:10

Edited by M-SportMatt on Thursday 20th July 17:12

Edited by M-SportMatt on Thursday 20th July 17:12

[bigandclever]

Integroo said:

So he didn't get away with it...it was dangerous driving which he pled down to careless.

I dunno. He broke some poor fker's back. I'd say he got away it. But that was a different story to this thread anyway.

[Ares]

TheRainMaker said:

Van took around two seconds to clear the junction, bike didn't leave anywhere near enough room.

Bullst. By the time he started indicating, the bike had pulled out, crossed the road and was well in the slip road/filter lane.

[WinstonWolf]

TheRainMaker said:

Ares said:

WinstonWolf said:

I've just watched it again and it doesn't look like the van's indicating until it's half way into the sliproad. Could be my eyes on this screen but it looks like a late call on the van drivers part?

....at best. Still suspect real answer is significantly more aggressive.

Nope, you are wrong.

Indicator on at 7 sec on the other side of the junction.

Frame 4 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr


Van took around two seconds to clear the junction, bike didn't leave anywhere near enough room.

Thanks for clearing the indicator situation up, it's not easy to see on a small screen.

You can see the bike is well established on the slip road before the van arrives.