RE: Lotus Evora GT430 - official!
Discussion
rockin said:
isaldiri said:
It's somewhat unfortunate nowadays that the main judgement of a sports car is a financial one .
I'd see the McLaren 540C at £126k as "bargain of the week" compared with this Lotus.533 bhp from a properly mid-engined V8 in the McLaren.
Yipper said:
The GT430 smashes the Cayman GT4 into the middle of next week. Faster in a straight line and on the twisties. But it is almost twice the price. They will no doubt sell out, but it is hugely overpriced.
for sure, the m4 gts someone else mentioned is different imo because the previous gts (also overpriced) held/appreciated in valuecrazy to think that a 991 GT3 RS is only £18k more expensive than this though
dank said:
£112k don't be daft....what are Lotus thinking...making some very nice machines lately but prices are bonkers, i'd take a GT3 any day and i do love Lotus and always have!
Exige 380 overpriced too
seems a shame that manufacturers feel they have to make these cars cost over 100k making them totally unobtainable...
So you'd "take" the GT3 any day which is virtually the same price...so presumably equally unobtainable?Exige 380 overpriced too
seems a shame that manufacturers feel they have to make these cars cost over 100k making them totally unobtainable...
They may be unobtainable for you (and me, sadly), but one can only assume the manufacturers have done their homework and concluded there are enough people for whom they are obtainable to make the development costs worthwhile.
rockin said:
isaldiri said:
It's somewhat unfortunate nowadays that the main judgement of a sports car is a financial one .
I'd see the McLaren 540C at £126k as "bargain of the week" compared with this Lotus.533 bhp from a properly mid-engined V8 in the McLaren.
Saying that I just sold my GT4 because I was having a lot more fun in my Elise and Caterham. Both cars proved much more exciting than the Cayman IME.
mjlloyd500 said:
alright for you lotus boys but 112 grand for this turd
For the benefit of us "Lotus boys", and less brand-specific car enthusiasts, could you, at the very least, expand on the basis on which you have determined that this offering from a manufacturer generally renowned for the enjoyment its products offer the car enthusiast, is a "turd"?At least then we can assess whether the likes of Evo and Top Gear magazine are falling over themselves to secure the services of your incisive, pithy, informative, engaging reviewing style.
RobM77 said:
Heathrow said:
cathalm said:
No, they are offering a car for sale at price point that it out of reach for some existing customers. The target is clearly not existing customers and Lotus has no special reason to ignore those with greater means who might like a Lotus just to please those who don't. The company offers a number of products at lower price points that cater for that audience.
This car is only 60 units, not 2000 annual volume and watch every one of them sell.
Lotus needs to start offering cars at more profitable price points for those that can afford it. I sympathise with folks who would like to have the car at 2 pounds fifty and a packet of quavers but that just isn't real. Complain when they stop offering cars at 40k, then they will be leaving a customer base. Not when they add at the top end.
I had an Evora for a number of years, I would pay this money for this car and there are enough people like me. What I want is for lotus to show us a 150k Esprit, keep the Elise level cars at the same time and take the brand back to where it rightfully belongs, offering wonderful cars at a number of price points for a wide audience- and winning races.
Maybe after a number of years of that we wouldn't have numpties (not you sir) like some on here whining about the Lotus brand can't stand comparison with marques that have contributed a fraction of what Lotus has to the automotive world and wouldn't know a chequered flag if someone inserted one up their Jacksie.
Lotus (along with McLaren) is Britain's great sports car and racing marque. 25 years of plonkers with no money not funding a thing have a lot to answer for- and owners who resent the marque moving back out the niche it didn't live in when Colin was around and which happens to suit their own needs.
Great post.This car is only 60 units, not 2000 annual volume and watch every one of them sell.
Lotus needs to start offering cars at more profitable price points for those that can afford it. I sympathise with folks who would like to have the car at 2 pounds fifty and a packet of quavers but that just isn't real. Complain when they stop offering cars at 40k, then they will be leaving a customer base. Not when they add at the top end.
I had an Evora for a number of years, I would pay this money for this car and there are enough people like me. What I want is for lotus to show us a 150k Esprit, keep the Elise level cars at the same time and take the brand back to where it rightfully belongs, offering wonderful cars at a number of price points for a wide audience- and winning races.
Maybe after a number of years of that we wouldn't have numpties (not you sir) like some on here whining about the Lotus brand can't stand comparison with marques that have contributed a fraction of what Lotus has to the automotive world and wouldn't know a chequered flag if someone inserted one up their Jacksie.
Lotus (along with McLaren) is Britain's great sports car and racing marque. 25 years of plonkers with no money not funding a thing have a lot to answer for- and owners who resent the marque moving back out the niche it didn't live in when Colin was around and which happens to suit their own needs.
What Lotus Cars have achieved in the last three years is quite remarkable given the instability and limited investment. The new MD has instigated an engineering led approach to refine and improve parts to reduce weight and it's a cheap way of improving performance. The subtext to this is that at the same time he is quietly reducing input costs and therefore improving profit margins, helping the car making part of the business to be sustainable. This can only be good news - we all want to see a new Elise and maybe one day an Esprit. I don't understand why there is a perception is that this car cannot co-exist with the existing Evora/Elise/Exige/3-Eleven range.
Whether one can afford the price of entry or not, there is a market for this car at the (modest) volumes they are suggesting, and as a halo product it makes perfect sense.
Broadening their appeal is particularly necessary for Lotus because of the 'Lotus Effect', whereby people like me buy a car from them and love it so much we keep it for years. I had my Elise for 8 years and loved it too much to sell it - the issue with this, which I understand is fairly typical Lotus ownership, is that Lotus don't make as much money as Porsche or BMW, whose owners' tend to want the latest shiny model every three years. My friend Colin has owned his Esprit since the early 80s I think!
Europa1 said:
mjlloyd500 said:
alright for you lotus boys but 112 grand for this turd
For the benefit of us "Lotus boys", and less brand-specific car enthusiasts, could you, at the very least, expand on the basis on which you have determined that this offering from a manufacturer generally renowned for the enjoyment its products offer the car enthusiast, is a "turd"?At least then we can assess whether the likes of Evo and Top Gear magazine are falling over themselves to secure the services of your incisive, pithy, informative, engaging reviewing style.
Looks great to me, no doubt they will all sell as a few of the UK ones already have.
Cars from Hethel at the moment are only getting better.
Rawwr said:
7795 said:
I just can't get onto the Lotus bandwagon.
They just look small and fragile to me and i've been in a fair few. The interiors have no style and largely the plastics are cheap and have just come out of a parts bin and been glued and thrown at the dashboard; where they land they stick.
Interior wise the world has moved on and ESPECIALLY in a £112k car I would be demanding a hell of a lot more.
Is it fast, yes. Would it give a GT3 a run for it's money; probably.
Personally, I would rate this car as a £60k machine.
Sorry.....i'm off!!
(Noble 600 the same. The time for these cars was against the 964, Griff etc, etc...the world has moved on).
You should pop your thoughts in an email to Lotus.They just look small and fragile to me and i've been in a fair few. The interiors have no style and largely the plastics are cheap and have just come out of a parts bin and been glued and thrown at the dashboard; where they land they stick.
Interior wise the world has moved on and ESPECIALLY in a £112k car I would be demanding a hell of a lot more.
Is it fast, yes. Would it give a GT3 a run for it's money; probably.
Personally, I would rate this car as a £60k machine.
Sorry.....i'm off!!
(Noble 600 the same. The time for these cars was against the 964, Griff etc, etc...the world has moved on).
A company almost always has one thing to do above all others and that is make profits to keep shareholders happy. Lotus just has never hit it's stride and found out how to appeal to the mass market. This is unforgivable as far as i'm concerned and goes a long way to explaining why they will always be the nearly boys in the sports car game compared to the other runners.
You have to move with the times, adapt and give the customers you have, and more importantly still, the customers you want what they desire.
Look at Ferrari and a 4x4. Look at Porsche and the Cayenne and even a Diesel. Look at Bentley and the 4x4. Discounting the LM002, soon they'll be another Lamborghini SUV.
My above point is not about making SUV's, it's about listening to the market and in exceptional cases like BMW and the X5, seeing where it is going and changing to sell cars and make money. Lotus are a one trick pony and this is why they are continually changing hands and not evolving and more importantly, do not have happy shareholders with queues round the block ready to invest.
If Kodak (RIP) could build cars, they'd build a Lotus (with a rear view camera, that can take 36 photos before it needs developing!!).
Lotus, please change and adapt......
It's perfectly possible for a company to be successful without being mass-market. I think Lotus's problem has been that it's tended to sit rather uncomfortably on the fence; too big to make a profit being truly niche and too small to manage the economies of scale to let them compete directly with the mainstream.
From the point of view of the market (as opposed to the jobs of the people who work there or in the supply chain), I'd as soon see Lotus go bust as go mainstream. Porsche are already very good at making Porsches, the market doesn't need another company to do exactly the same. Having said that, Lotus have already gone too mainstream for me, I almost certainly wont buy another.
From the point of view of the market (as opposed to the jobs of the people who work there or in the supply chain), I'd as soon see Lotus go bust as go mainstream. Porsche are already very good at making Porsches, the market doesn't need another company to do exactly the same. Having said that, Lotus have already gone too mainstream for me, I almost certainly wont buy another.
7795 said:
A company almost always has one thing to do above all others and that is make profits to keep shareholders happy. Lotus just has never hit it's stride and found out how to appeal to the mass market. This is unforgivable as far as i'm concerned and goes a long way to explaining why they will always be the nearly boys in the sports car game compared to the other runners.
You have to move with the times, adapt and give the customers you have, and more importantly still, the customers you want what they desire.
You really don't understand Lotus, do you? Kambites does, even if I don't agree with his conclusion.You have to move with the times, adapt and give the customers you have, and more importantly still, the customers you want what they desire.
For as long as this forum has existed, people like you have been demanding that they produce 'mainstream' cars - we either get calls for a Lotus MX-5 or a Lotus-Boxter. Not going to happen (thank God).
Kambites is right that they are at a very difficult size, and lost the ability to compete with the other 'boutique' manufacturers when they couldn't follow up the Esprit with a new model. It's hard to get that back without huge investment, and the owners have not made that possible over the last couple of decades.
However, they don't have to be mainstream or mass-market - they have to be a running business. Gales gets that and has achieved a huge turn round in public perception (and product) in the last few years. Hopefully Geely will allow him to reap the rewards of that consolidation and move to the next phase.
From a personal point of view, I have everything crossed that the next phase is not mass market (though sure, if there's a bread and butter crossover that can pay the bills, I'd be fine with that). I'm hoping we'll keep on seeing cars that explore engineering limits and exciting ways to deliver a unique driving experience. The moment they mush that into a mass market formula that can be churned out for decades, I'll loose all interest. It might excite accountants, but I'm here for the driving.
ben5575 said:
As discussed in the GT4 thread, the 400 in the classifieds with 6k miles on the clock for £58k is a very serious proposition.
Lucky old Porsche911R must be on hols?! Porsche911R said:
This GT430 is stunning. £112k maybe on a par with the GT3, but the GT3 won't drop £30k+ after a year or so unlike this one.I'll wager he will check in soon to remind us how desperate he is to buy a Lotus, but his desire is hampered by either expense or depreciation (or both) /any minute the market will be flooded with used Lotus's/ the dealers don't fluff the cushions before he arrives, etc,etc.......Sorry Porsche911R, have a sangria for me.
Back on topic, yes please, but go easy on the red accents and decals, this car has enough power not to shout so loudly!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff