Primary secondary position -good or bad for cycling driving?

[WinstonWolf]

saaby93 said:

saaby93 said:

Just to be clear we're not talking about whether cyclists should ride in the gutter
You can see from this photo how it would be crazy so can everyone stop saying it

To be clear to be clear
The gutter is on the left and no one uses that or would be expected to
Most 'normal' cyclists use the piece left of the white line ( they can get a tow from passing traffic too)
a minority hold so called secondary position to the right of the white line - maybe about foot or so
And the very odd one primary position centre lane

Ah, so you're talking about cycling on A roads are you, not normal round town roads?

[saaby93]

WinstonWolf said:

Ah, so you're talking about cycling on A roads are you, not normal round town roads?

Not really I'm just asking if this primary secondary gutter malarchy is giving cycling generally a bad name and leading to poor attitude from motorists
Why not just ask what is sensible - what would most people do here?
As far as I can tell the worst position to be in there is secondary
Normal position drivers move over a bit but stay in lane
Primary position they accept they have to change lane, assuming theyve noticed the car in front suddenly change lane
Secondary can give rise to some dodgy passing and hand waving

[WinstonWolf]

saaby93 said:

WinstonWolf said:

Ah, so you're talking about cycling on A roads are you, not normal round town roads?

Not really I'm just asking if this primary secondary gutter malarchy is giving cycling generally a bad name and leading to poor attitude from motorists
Why not just ask what is sensible - what would most people do here?
As far as I can tell the worst position to be in there is secondary
Normal position drivers move over a bit but stay in lane
Primary position they accept they have to change lane, assuming theyve noticed the car in front suddenly change lane
Secondary can give rise to some dodgy passing and hand waving

That's an A road, part of advanced driving/riding is adopting your position to suit the conditions. There is no hard and fast rule but on that road in that picture I would be to the left of the white line unless manoeuvring as I'm sure all of us petrol head cyclists would. In town, primary and secondary apply.

You do adapt your driving depending on the conditions don't you?

[Mave]

Kuji said:

Yes, sometimes I do.

Usually without having to be in some form or AWD monster truck.

Sometimes? Why not most of the time?

[saaby93]

WinstonWolf said:

You do adapt your driving depending on the conditions don't you?

Why would anyone bother doing that
You do write some stuff sometimes

[Mave]

saaby93 said:

To be clear to be clear
The gutter is on the left and no one uses that or would be expected to

Again I disagree. Some people do appear to expect cyclists to use it.

[WinstonWolf]

saaby93 said:

WinstonWolf said:

You do adapt your driving depending on the conditions don't you?

Why would anyone bother doing that
You do write some stuff sometimes

You seem to be under the illusion that driving/riding is black and white. It isn't.
Conversely this hazard fest is negotiated bang on the centre line...

[saaby93]

WinstonWolf said:

You seem to be under the illusion that driving/riding is black and white.

Between the two of us I dont think it's me who that cap fits

[WinstonWolf]

saaby93 said:

WinstonWolf said:

You seem to be under the illusion that driving/riding is black and white.

Between the two of us I dont think it's me who that cap fits

You want one answer, my view is that you constantly adapt your position to suit the conditions. Do you disagree then?

[M-SportMatt]

saaby93 said:

Not really I'm just asking if this primary secondary gutter malarchy is giving cycling generally a bad name and leading to poor attitude from motorists
Why not just ask what is sensible - what would most people do here?
As far as I can tell the worst position to be in there is secondary
Normal position drivers move over a bit but stay in lane
Primary position they accept they have to change lane, assuming theyve noticed the car in front suddenly change lane
Secondary can give rise to some dodgy passing and hand waving

You seem to ignore me because im not saying what you want to hear......the 'primary/secondary malarkey' is nothing new, its just normal cycling that has always been taught, these are just some new words someones attributed to it. ITS NOTHING NEW

There is no hard fast answer as has been said before on this thread and previous ones, you adapt to the changing conditions to stay safe and respect other road users.

Unfortunately some road users fail to understand the hazards faced by a cyclist and deem them to be non existent and their journey more important.....these people are prevalent on this thread......

[Byker28i]

WinstonWolf said:

Ah, so you're talking about cycling on A roads are you, not normal round town roads?

Well a simple solution would be to ban cyclists from busy A roads, where differential speeds are high

[Kuji]

saaby93 said:

Kuji said:

If the paved bit each side is the gutter, surely no-ones suggesting anyone should cycle there either?

The picture relates to the issue around drains and litter to which the quite relates.

(Although this particular street, is devoid of rubbish)

Kuji said:

Maybe you simply need to choose a bike with a tyre suitable for the road conditions prevalent in this country.

Then the drain covers and refuse wouldn't require you to 'put yourself' at risk.

[saaby93]

M-SportMatt said:

Unfortunately some road users fail to understand the hazards faced by a cyclist and deem them to be non existent and their journey more important.....these people are prevalent on this thread......

Look for another unfortunately
Out of the 3 positions on the photo might you deem unfortunate if someone thought they were following the hard and fast gutter primary secondary rules but didnt realise your or winstons 'to conditions' applies

Then respond in relation to the thread topic is it good or bad for cycling/driving

[Kuji]

Mave said:

Kuji said:

Yes, sometimes I do.

Usually without having to be in some form or AWD monster truck.

Sometimes? Why not most of the time?

I often cross the centre line of the road, to overtake cyclists, horses, or parked cars.

Its a silly idea I know, but it somehow seems better to do that, than to say persist an insane exchange of words with someone who seems intent on creating an argument out of nothing over whether or not I drive next to the kerb at all times.

[M-SportMatt]

saaby93 said:

M-SportMatt said:

Unfortunately some road users fail to understand the hazards faced by a cyclist and deem them to be non existent and their journey more important.....these people are prevalent on this thread......

Look for another unfortunately
Out of the 3 positions on the photo might you deem unfortunate if someone thought they were following the hard and fast gutter primary secondary rules but didnt realise your or winstons 'to conditions' applies

Then respond in relation to the thread topic is it good or bad for cycling/driving

The 'it' that you're talking about doesn't exist, it's nothing new, what you are asking is if something that doesn't exist good for cycling/driving

The guidance for cyclists positioning has always been the same, so what are you asking?

Not that it matters, as you will just claim something different.......i'm still waiting for you to explain why you have persistently denied something you posted in the OP, which is still there in black and white!

Edited by M-SportMatt on Friday 28th July 15:00

[Byker28i]

Kuji said:

I often cross the centre line of the road, to overtake cyclists, horses, or parked cars.

Its a silly idea I know, but it somehow seems better to do that, than to say persist an insane exchange of words with someone who seems intent on creating an argument out of nothing over whether or not I drive next to the kerb at all times.

There was the NYC cyclist making a point after being giving a ticket fro not riding int he lanes as they were obstructed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MtiWhJoCOQ

[M-SportMatt]

M-SportMatt said:

saaby93 said:

M-SportMatt said:

saaby93 said:

. It's not uncommon to see a bike in centre of lane ( primary position) keeping an HGV or car behind with a long queue behind,

Haven't read any further than this, it MAY happen in city centres or other roads preceding a right turn, but in general this is NOT common.

which is why I didnt say that - why do some posters not read whats been written

Yes you did say it, its there in the OP, its a direct quote in Bold

You did say it and it is not common

I have no idea how you can deny saying it, are you schizophrenic?

[WinstonWolf]

saaby93 said:

M-SportMatt said:

Unfortunately some road users fail to understand the hazards faced by a cyclist and deem them to be non existent and their journey more important.....these people are prevalent on this thread......

Look for another unfortunately
Out of the 3 positions on the photo might you deem unfortunate if someone thought they were following the hard and fast gutter primary secondary rules but didnt realise your or winstons 'to conditions' applies

Then respond in relation to the thread topic is it good or bad for cycling/driving

Cyclists AND drivers adapting their positions according to road conditions is better for everyone.

But you were taught this in your advanced driving lessons weren't you?

[Mandalore]

M-SportMatt said:

Unfortunately some road users fail to understand the hazards faced by a cyclist and deem them to be non existent and their journey more important.....these people are prevalent on this thread......

Cheer up Matt.
Give it 50years and you'll have the last laugh with your hover bikes and personal body shields.

[Mave]

Kuji said:

Mave said:

Kuji said:

Yes, sometimes I do.

Usually without having to be in some form or AWD monster truck.

Sometimes? Why not most of the time?

I often cross the centre line of the road, to overtake cyclists, horses, or parked cars.

Its a silly idea I know, but it somehow seems better to do that, than to say persist an insane exchange of words with someone who seems intent on creating an argument out of nothing over whether or not I drive next to the kerb at all times.

But you're not crossing the centreline of the road most of the time are you? On my way home earlier, very few people drove in the gutter. My conclusion is that most of the time, most motorists don't drive in the gutter. So why do you expect cyclists to do something that you generally don't do?