RE: Range Rover Velar: Review

[Greg_D]

Sheepshanks said:

This is sourced from the Reliability Index today. Range Rover is absolute rock-bottom for reliability. Roughly 100 times more unreliable than a Toyota IQ.

1st. Toyota IQ = 3.0 rating...
100th. Citroën C4 = 85.0 rating...
309th. Range Rover Sport = 345.0 rating...

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...

BMW M5 =736 rating
Aston DB9 = 651
Conti GT = 510
Maser granturismo = 591
Porsche cayenne = 414
Audi Q7 = 423

i got bored of finding out that literally every premium car from a range of manufacturers was worse than a FFRR. Perpetuating a hackneyed internet cliche is getting blooming boring nowadays.

Just because you say it is bad, doesn't make it true.

there will be bad apples from every manufacturer, but it doesn't mean that there hasn't been significant progress made. Stop bashing a great british success story. a 2 ton plus luxury SUV was never going to rival a toyota crisp packet for reliability, get real... and the failures on those were 100% engine.

i'll bet those unlucky few owners are on forums slagging them off as we speak as insufferable bags of crap.....

[skyrover]

Good for British jobs... but I would never buy anything in the current range.

[anonymous-user]

I'm not pro or anti RR or LR products - although they're not for me as the styling is in my eyes chintzy and they all look much the same - but I can see why people like them. I also wish JLR well, seeing as they are a UK-based firm, albeit Indian owned.

However, 2 close fiends have had 1 new FFRR and 2 new RRSs over the last year in their families, and 2 of the 3 have been appallingly unreliable, whilst the third has been totally totally faultless. Both families agree that the local dealer doesn't know his arse from his elbow, and that 'customer service' is almost non-existent.

I'm not sure why this persists - Jag seem to do reasonably well, so not sure why they can't learn through osmosis?

[richthebike]

Hang on. I'm not questioning your experience.
To be fair, people with experience are complaining about service, as much as reliability.

I'm a pretty normal human, and fairly easily pleased. I'm not a forum moaner or a jealous, penniless dreamer. The service at my local dealer isn't good enough. In fact, it isn't good at all.

Once my current issues are over I have a solution. Car is coming out of the network, and will be going to one of two local Indies, who are fantastic. Hopefully then I get to enjoy a great product, with great service. Problems solved.

At this point, we've said our bits and we're wasting our time. JLR have wasted enough of mine already. Peace out ☺

[rusty pois]

Saw the red one in the pics the day before it went to Norway, it is breathtakingly gorgeous in the flesh.

Will sell by the bucket load just as the Sport has but it is already taking sales off the Sport as very similar in size.

New interior to be rolled out to the RR and the RRS soon apparently.

[ivantate]

milesr3 said:

Shame that they used such an iconic name on a cynical gap-filler. Says a lot about LR nowadays.

This.

[tali1]

The Spruce goose said:

Yes JLR is successful which is great, but some people want a bit more diversify than facsimile copies of other models.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Tuesday 25th July 12:41

Worked wonders for Audi , time and time again..

[Yipper]

Greg_D said:

Sheepshanks said:

This is sourced from the Reliability Index today. Range Rover is absolute rock-bottom for reliability. Roughly 100 times more unreliable than a Toyota IQ.

1st. Toyota IQ = 3.0 rating...
100th. Citroën C4 = 85.0 rating...
309th. Range Rover Sport = 345.0 rating...

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...

BMW M5 =736 rating
Aston DB9 = 651
Conti GT = 510
Maser granturismo = 591
Porsche cayenne = 414
Audi Q7 = 423

i got bored of finding out that literally every premium car from a range of manufacturers was worse than a FFRR. Perpetuating a hackneyed internet cliche is getting blooming boring nowadays.

Just because you say it is bad, doesn't make it true.

there will be bad apples from every manufacturer, but it doesn't mean that there hasn't been significant progress made. Stop bashing a great british success story. a 2 ton plus luxury SUV was never going to rival a toyota crisp packet for reliability, get real... and the failures on those were 100% engine.

i'll bet those unlucky few owners are on forums slagging them off as we speak as insufferable bags of crap.....

Lexus RX = 67
Mitsubishi Shogun Sport = 89

Every single Land Rover / Range Rover is in the bottom half of the Large SUV Reliability Index.

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/ratings/best/Large...

[Jim AK]

E65Ross said:

I know someone who's had both a new engine and a new gearbox...both at different times.

Over 15 trips to the dealer within its first year! Brand new FFRR.

Bloody hell thats nt good.

The previous gen RRS ours replaced was very good, only throwing a biggish bill at its last service.

4 years & 50k miles too. It's replacement had issues by 500 miles.... Ah well!!

ETA. We have another that's done the same miles & is fine

[NomduJour]

Yipper said:

Lexus RX = 67
Mitsubishi Shogun Sport = 89

More pointless cherry-picking - those two are the only cars in the entire grouping which aren't rated "Poor". Bottom three - Cayenne, Q7, GL.

[DP33]

Followed one on the M40 recently - at first approaching it from the rear 3/4 I thought it was an F Pace, same size and fundamental architecture. Really surprised me and made me look again at the Jag in a new light, feels like better value than ever. Having said all of that it really is a thing of beauty once you get to the front.

[forest172]

Ares said:

Not quite sure a Velar, starting at £50k+ is a Team Manager's car?
Nor an Evoque something that everyman could get. The (very) basic model is £31k, thats more than a average UK wage!

All RRs are aspirational/luxury models, not utilitarian.

And no-one in their right mind would buy a RRS for cash in the current market!

Why? I did. A brand-new hse dynamic with stealth pack and a healthy £8k discount. Back in October

[tjlees]

Hungrymc said:

tjlees said:

Pity - I was looking at JLR for load lugging and towing duties - looks like something German (again) ...

Don't fall into the trap of thinking German will be safe and JLR is bad. I've owned 4 without any probs (lower tailgate button on a disco 3 did fail). Worst car I've ever owned for reliability was a C class merc, followed by an M3.

ETA I'm not saying don't buy a merc or a BMW, im saying look at the actual research as opposed to some individual experiences from the forum.

Never been stranded by a German car in 25+ years including an M sport, M3 and M6 - and my last did 165k over 8 years without failing an MOT (touch wood).

I keep looking JLR and even Alfa - both produce some lovely motors which drive really well imho, but my next doors discovery keeps going in for things I wouldn't expect to fail after 60ishk miles (including the tailgate and radio sometimes refuses to work). My friends jag seemed to have no end of electrical problems that never really got sorted.

Slightly off putting - particularly when I need a car to last 160+k miles not spend time in garage.

Looking at the Which? Reliability - the land rover, Range Rover and jag are near the bottom. This is even worse for 3-8yo with Range Rover scoring 66% and costing lots to repair

[Cotic]

tjlees said:

I keep looking JLR and even Alfa - both produce some lovely motors which drive really well imho, but my next doors discovery keeps going in for things I wouldn't expect to fail after 60ishk miles (including the tailgate and radio sometimes refuses to work). My friends jag seemed to have no end of electrical problems that never really got sorted.

Last year I ran both a Disco 4 and an Alfa simultaneously - according to the internet I should have been stood at the side of the road on the phone most days.

Surprisingly, it wasn't an issue.

[Earthdweller]

richthebike said:

RammyMP said:

richthebike said:

I'm two years into Range Rover ownership. Fantastic product, when it isn't breaking down, let down even further by the worst dealership experience I have ever known.

Even if this won every road test in every magazine I'd not buy it, and I'd be first to tell people who ask my opinion to avoid the brand on the whole.

Looking to switch out of my FFRR asap and have asked the network to buy it back.

Snap. We've had a number of Discovery Sports when the Evoque has been in to get fixed and I get that they need an intermediate luxury model as the Disco Sport feels very cheap.

Unfortunately there is no way that LR will get any more money out of me until they build a reliable car and their dealers provide a service better then fking piss poor!

Good to hear it's not just me on the wrong end of their woeful service (sorry to wish it on you, but hopefully you know what I mean).

The FFRR is a brilliant, brilliant product, when it works. But when it doesn't you're in the hands of their service division / warranty department and it is unbearable.

I won't write the details here because we're in a bit of a dispute, but I cannot emphasise enough how much I'd advise everyone in the PH community not to get drawn in by the lovely product, and think very carefully about whether you can live with the associated frustrations.

My neighbour has a 66 plate disco sport .. lovely looking thing in HSE spec

However, it is forever back in the garage for all sorts of different reasons

He has had everything from Range Rovers to evoques as loan cars

I reckon it must have been off the road for at least 2 months since November

My X3 however in 2 1/2 years hasn't had one single day off the road other than servicing

[RammyMP]

Earthdweller said:

My neighbour has a 66 plate disco sport .. lovely looking thing in HSE spec

However, it is forever back in the garage for all sorts of different reasons

He has had everything from Range Rovers to evoques as loan cars

I reckon it must have been off the road for at least 2 months since November

My X3 however in 2 1/2 years hasn't had one single day off the road other than servicing

And that's why I'd never buy another LR.

[Ares]

forest172 said:

Ares said:

Not quite sure a Velar, starting at £50k+ is a Team Manager's car?
Nor an Evoque something that everyman could get. The (very) basic model is £31k, thats more than a average UK wage!

All RRs are aspirational/luxury models, not utilitarian.

And no-one in their right mind would buy a RRS for cash in the current market!

Why? I did. A brand-new hse dynamic with stealth pack and a healthy £8k discount. Back in October

Because finance deals are so cheap, broker discounts are better than you can get, and you can make your capital work far far better.

I've just been through the process. Staggering how much you can save, and have far greater peace of mind.

[forest172]

And pay about £10k interest over 36 months on the PCP deal?

[NomduJour]

Ares said:

Because finance deals are so cheap, broker discounts are better than you can get, and you can make your capital work far far better.

I've just been through the process. Staggering how much you can save, and have far greater peace of mind.

So you can beat the system? Amazing, you must be richer than Soros, Croesus and Bill Gates combined.

[Ares]

forest172 said:

And pay about £10k interest over 36 months on the PCP deal?

One of the brokers I used to source my Alfa offered me a 3.0 V6 HSE RRS for £552/mth, £1,600 upfront. 10,000miles but over 4 years.

That means if would cost me just under £28,000, including RFL which is now £450/yr, to have the car for 4 years. From memory, the car was c£65,000 list price.

If I'd matched your £8,000 discount, that would have been £57,000. I would have to be certain the car would only lose £28,000 (50%) in 4 years. Thats ambitious. Add in the RFL, and it would need to lose only £26,000 over 4 years. Do you think your car would be worth at least £31,000 after four years?

....and thats before the return you could have if you invested your £57,000.



Cross-posted from another thread, my current and incoming car:


I currently have a 640d GC. Bought brand new, it costs me £561/mth and I put £4,000 down. This was on a 4 year PCP (12k/yr - currently 3yrs 3 months in). The current settlement figure is £22k and the car is worth somewhere between £25-27k.

That means, to date, it has cost me just under £26k for 39 months. If I sell it tomorrow, I'll get £3-5k 'back'.
If I'd bought it brand new, and sold it tomorrow, it would have dropped a lot more than £26k in that 3yrs 3 months, let alone the net £21-23k.
It's also been risk free, and a fixed outgoing.


My next car is being leased. £65k Alfa Quadrifoglio, again over 4 yrs, but at 15,000 per year. £572/mth, £1,700 upfront, and includes RFL for the duration.

Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.


On top of all of those, my investments over the last 3 years have risen by 20-25%. So tell me again why I would tie my capital up in a car for no commercial reason...and with significant Opportunity Cost??