No ICE from 2040?!?

[kambites]

FourWheelDrift said:

Who will pay for the installation in all the roads?

The people still driving petrol cars via taxation, obviously.

[boxedin]

katz said:

Pretty soon you will not have to worry about charging stations, so that argument about range is already out of date. Being tested now in pilot projects is in road inductive ( wireless) charging, so you will be charging your car as you drive or park. The 2018 Mercedes S550e will have the capability for wireless charging built in.

comedy ( roads are paved with ) gold.

1. pot holes
2. utility works
3. road maintenance.
4. steam rollers on their way to a show.

[kambites]

To be fair, you dont' get much of any of those on motorways which tend to be the roads people are on when they're doing distances which trouble EVs.

I'm not sure I can see it happening though. It'll just be too expensive to implement.

[Pica-Pica]

suffolk009 said:

PotatoSalad said:

suffolk009 said:

Wacky Racer said:

kambites said:

Wacky Racer said:

Is it the SALE of petrol & diesel cars to be banned by 2040 or the USE of them?

Sale.

I personally doubt we'll ever see a blanket ban on their use. Once new ones are no longer sold, the number on the roads will become insignificant within a few years.

So then by say 2060 when only (maybe 5% of cars on the road are petrol or diesel).....the rest have gone to the great scrapyard in the sky...petrol stations will be virtually redundant and will be closing down wholesale as their customer base as gone, there might be one every twenty miles or so.


Not good.

I'm currently 7 miles from the nearest petrol station, and 28 miles from the nearest Tesla supercharger.

There is an upside to rural life here in Suffolk - it's 18 miles to the nearest Starbucks.

And 10 feet from the nearest socket in your house...

Oh, absolutely. My point was that 20 miles to go for petrol isn't that bad. If I forget to fill the car up and I need to head off in the other direction the next day then I'm looking at 14 miles round trip.

I'll happily have an EV in my garage, just as soon as I can afford one.

To be clear it is the sale of new petrol or diesel ONLY cars. So
1) hybrids are OK
2) motorcycles are OK
There is (as yet) no detailed mention LGVs and HGVs and other forms of transport, by road, rail, or sea.

That is a bit like BREXIT - long on rhetoric, short on detail (aka - making it up as we go along)
As for petrol and dual fuel stations turning completely to charging points, they will still be needed for the existing petrol and diesel and the hybrids that will be allowed.

[katz]

kambites said:

To be fair, you dont' get much of any of those on motorways which tend to be the roads people are on when they're doing distances which trouble EVs.

I'm not sure I can see it happening though. It'll just be too expensive to implement.

pilots for inductive parking spaces have already taken place in London, as well as mercedes ford have announced a wireless charging car, For moving traffic, all that is needed in the road are the coils. Inductive parking will be here within 2 years, moving charging in about 10

[kambites]

I can't see induction parking overtaking plug-in type spaces in the next ten years, personally. And I think mainstream adoption of wireless charing on the move is decades away. They might start installing induction loops in new roads, but they're not going to tear up existing surfaces to fit them.

[Farmboy UK]

Toltec said:

Farmboy UK said:

A 24kWh leaf will do a real world 80miles on a charge. I know this because I drove to Bath from Nottingham in one the other day with breaks for coffee and a McDonalds.

I can see you might plan one stop to eat some food* on a 150 mile journey due to the time of day, however most of the time that would just be a straight 2 1/2 to 3 hour drive if you started with at least half a tank of fuel. How long did it take you in the Leaf? I appreciate that taking a bit longer for the odd journey against the running costs for an EV used inside its battery range most days is a valid trade off. Add to it that you can start every day with a full 'tank' without having to regularly call at a petrol station and I can see the appeal.

If you did an extended drive, charge, drive, charge cycle on a motorway what overall average speed would you get?

* Given it was a McD I use that term loosely.

It took me about 3h30. I spent about 40-45 minutes stopped. For me, at the moment the trade off is worth it. It will only take a couple of years until there will not even be a trade off. The newer EVs could have made the journey with ease, no stops

[babatunde]

bodhi said:

Evanivitch said:

It's the corner case of the EV deniers.

"What! I can't drive 600 miles non stop in 12 hours, how absurd. Of course I don't need to use the toilet, avoid DVT or consume caffeine in that time, I'm a very busy person!"

I'm sure in 2050 they'll still be driving their Audi diesel and arguing how the 6 cylinder diesel is more refined than the 4 cylinder, and that the torque available at just 1500rpm makes it an A road beast.

Personally as an EV "Denier" (good to see that word getting dragged out again) my corner case is that they bore the living piss out of me - and yes, I include Teslas in that. We have 2 in the family (a Leaf and an i3 REX), and I'm struggling to think of anything memorable about them in the slightest.

That's the end game, proves their suitability for day to day driving, they are "transport"

As a PHer I expect to have a ICE till the day I die, even if it means distilling my own fuel, doesn't mean that I'm blind to the fact that the EV is a better solution for road cars,

[HTP99]

ash73 said:

Ares said:

ash73 said:

The cheapest Tesla is currently £65K, the Chevrolet Bolt isn't available in the UK, are there any other electric cars you can actually buy with a range of more than 125 miles?

Yes. A lot.

Care to list them?

A 40kw ZOE will do 200 miles if you try hard, if you don't try hard it will do 150-180 miles, based on that then a 30kw Leaf will do 125 miles.

[rxe]

katz said:

pilots for inductive parking spaces have already taken place in London, as well as mercedes ford have announced a wireless charging car, For moving traffic, all that is needed in the road are the coils. Inductive parking will be here within 2 years, moving charging in about 10

Inductive charging is at best 60% efficient. That's with perfect coil alignment. Moving? Probably less than 20%. That road is going to be mighty hot, and there may be plasma between the cars and the road....

[Toltec]

rxe said:

Inductive charging is at best 60% efficient. That's with perfect coil alignment. Moving? Probably less than 20%. That road is going to be mighty hot, and there may be plasma between the cars and the road....

Might as well ignore the motor in the car and just make the whole thing a linear motor.

[Toltec]

Farmboy UK said:

Toltec said:

Farmboy UK said:

A 24kWh leaf will do a real world 80miles on a charge. I know this because I drove to Bath from Nottingham in one the other day with breaks for coffee and a McDonalds.

I can see you might plan one stop to eat some food* on a 150 mile journey due to the time of day, however most of the time that would just be a straight 2 1/2 to 3 hour drive if you started with at least half a tank of fuel. How long did it take you in the Leaf? I appreciate that taking a bit longer for the odd journey against the running costs for an EV used inside its battery range most days is a valid trade off. Add to it that you can start every day with a full 'tank' without having to regularly call at a petrol station and I can see the appeal.

If you did an extended drive, charge, drive, charge cycle on a motorway what overall average speed would you get?

* Given it was a McD I use that term loosely.

It took me about 3h30. I spent about 40-45 minutes stopped. For me, at the moment the trade off is worth it. It will only take a couple of years until there will not even be a trade off. The newer EVs could have made the journey with ease, no stops

I wouldn't want to be stopping every hour and a half on a long drive, but a run like yours with one charge stop and assuming you could charge again at your destination would be bearable.

[lowdrag]

So the future, boiling the above replies down, is that Tescos/Waitrose etc. will open bigger cafés/restaurants with 20 charging meters outside (they'll not give it away), we'll stop for coffee/lunch/afternoon tea/dinner and then carry on our way. I still prefer to fillup and carry on my way with a sandwich in hand, but my habits will have to change.

Here in France we have a traffic light system for heavy traffic weekends and today goes way past red to black. But everyone is on their way to the coast, this being the weekend at the beginning of August. I've done it and it isn't fun, seeing miles of traffic queuing to pay at the toll booths, traffic jams even your worst nightmare won't imagine and I can see troubles ahead when 200 people all want the same charging plug when they arrive at the service station. Sometimes, despite the large parking areas, one can go 50 miles and more before being able to find a place to park for a break. Or are we then going to be forced to change our holidays too? The infrastructure will seriously have to be greatly changed.

[rampageturke]

Ares said:

rampageturke said:

fesuvious said:

Tomorrow morning I have decided to perform a fecking monster burnout in the Hellcat.

I shall then exit the car, and breathe in the smell of zorst and rubber and the Smile on my face shall be huge.

I will, at all times be thinking of this thread.

Nobody cares dude, your hellcat will be rotting in someones garage somewhere practically worthless in 23 years. Your "look at me im so rebellious" attitude is retarded.

I think you have the wrong site. Try mumsnet or whinginggreenliberalwkers.com

whew, really got me there big buy, i'm such a green liberal wker its unreal.

[Ultrafunkula]

I think in terms of infrastructure, you could get away with less charging stations with more charging points. Given that most people would start a longer journey fully charged from home, and a 300mile range, the stations could be spaced further apart than present petrol stations eventually.
Also, backup power packs/batteries could be available as a range extending option when the technology gets light enough.

[Toltec]

Ultrafunkula said:

I think in terms of infrastructure, you could get away with less charging stations with more charging points. Given that most people would start a longer journey fully charged from home, and a 300mile range, the stations could be spaced further apart than present petrol stations eventually.
Also, backup power packs/batteries could be available as a range extending option when the technology gets light enough.

Not everyone will be able to charge at home.
Not everyone will be able to charge at their destination.
More charging points is a given as cars will need to spend much longer there than at a fuel pump in any case.

Autonomous cars may help as you will be able to send it off to recharge or at least leave it in a queue for the charger while you go and do something else.

[Ultrafunkula]

Toltec said:

Not everyone will be able to charge at home.
Not everyone will be able to charge at their destination.

That may be something that could change in the future, charging points could in theory be installed in every car park.

[kambites]

Ultrafunkula said:

Toltec said:

Not everyone will be able to charge at home.
Not everyone will be able to charge at their destination.

That may be something that could change in the future, charging points could in theory be installed in every car park.

We're not going to have them at the side of every residential street in the next 23 years, though, I doubt. It would cost billions.

[Ares]

ash73 said:

Ares said:

ash73 said:

The cheapest Tesla is currently £65K, the Chevrolet Bolt isn't available in the UK, are there any other electric cars you can actually buy with a range of more than 125 miles?

Yes. A lot.

Care to list them?

Sure.


I3
BYD e6
Chevvy Bolt
Ioniq
JAC J3
Kia Soul EV that Clarkson drove
KyBurz eRod
Lightening GT
Merc B-CLass
MW Luka
Leaf NEDC
Renault Zoe
Rimac Concept One
Rimac Concept S
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X
Venturi Fetish
VW e-golf

[Donbot]

kambites said:

We're not going to have them at the side of every residential street in the next 23 years, though, I doubt. It would cost billions.

Broadband internet must cost a fair bit to create the infrastructure, but that is pretty much everywhere now.

If it makes financial sense and the demand is there it will be built.