No ICE from 2040?!?
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Hydrogen is just a form of energy. Either from CO2 intensive sources or energy intensive sources. It doesn't exist in an easy form.
Then it has to be stored and distributed. We don't have that infrastructure in place. It is. Or the equivalent of petrol infrastructure.
Currently there are huge maintenance demands for hydrogen cars. Toyota Mirai service is every 5000 miles and they need specially prepared workshops to handle hydrogen. All issues that can be overcome, but with a range of 312 miles and limited infrastructure, where's the benefit? (I can count 14 Hydrogen stations on Zap maps in the whole of England Wales and Scotland).
Indeed electricity is everywhere at the end of the day.Then it has to be stored and distributed. We don't have that infrastructure in place. It is. Or the equivalent of petrol infrastructure.
Currently there are huge maintenance demands for hydrogen cars. Toyota Mirai service is every 5000 miles and they need specially prepared workshops to handle hydrogen. All issues that can be overcome, but with a range of 312 miles and limited infrastructure, where's the benefit? (I can count 14 Hydrogen stations on Zap maps in the whole of England Wales and Scotland).
MrOrange said:
Gary C said:
Donbot said:
kambites said:
We're not going to have them at the side of every residential street in the next 23 years, though, I doubt. It would cost billions.
Broadband internet must cost a fair bit to create the infrastructure, but that is pretty much everywhere now.If it makes financial sense and the demand is there it will be built.
High power cables to charging stations would not be the same.
So, electric cars need regular domestic voltage that is freely available in every house, hotel, car park, and workplace in the UK. And (on average) need just a few kWh per day to stay 100% charged - that maybe a case of trickle drawing 300w for the time your car sits unused - not really very onerous at all. And cheap, a quid a day for 20-30 miles.
It’s gotta be one of the simplest infrastructure challenges facing society in the next decade.
Besides, every new build will likely have a chargepoint http://charged.io/every-new-home-europe-ev-charge-...
A proper rapid charger is ~ 22 kW, so the infrastructure change cannot use the normal domestic supply without increasing physical capacity, whereas broadband by using QAM/PSK etc increases the throughput without changing the physical size of the cable to the home.
Though if you mean slow 13a charger then that would be easier but, remember the domestic supply is generally designed with the expectation that not every socket will be supplying 13a at the same time. If everyone has a car plugged in, the supply may not take it (given the existing consumption remains)
Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 1st August 22:28
Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 1st August 22:33
Of course you could use smart chargers that allow the distribution company to load manage, but I'm sure people will be unhappy to find their charger was switched off.
Not saying it won't happen, just that the broadband rollout to many domestic areas will be nothing like what's required to charge 30 million cars.
Let's face it, broadband didn't need new power stations !
Not saying it won't happen, just that the broadband rollout to many domestic areas will be nothing like what's required to charge 30 million cars.
Let's face it, broadband didn't need new power stations !
Gary C said:
No matter how you slice it, a domestic 240 supply will only supply 3 kW from a 13A socket.
A proper rapid charger is ~ 22 kW, so the infrastructure change cannot use the normal domestic supply without increasing physical capacity, whereas broadband by using QAM/PSK etc increases the throughput without changing the physical size of the cable to the home.
Though if you mean slow 13a charger then that would be easier but, remember the domestic supply is generally designed with the expectation that not every socket will be supplying 13a at the same time. If everyone has a car plugged in, the supply may not take it (given the existing consumption remains)
Neighbours of ours manage? You don't need rapid chargers at home. Our neighbours use smart meters that time the charging of the vehicle using economy 7 (or similar) in the middle of the night when Electricity is dirt cheap. Some of their chargers then allow the house to be power by the charged car during the day when using electricity is more expensiveA proper rapid charger is ~ 22 kW, so the infrastructure change cannot use the normal domestic supply without increasing physical capacity, whereas broadband by using QAM/PSK etc increases the throughput without changing the physical size of the cable to the home.
Though if you mean slow 13a charger then that would be easier but, remember the domestic supply is generally designed with the expectation that not every socket will be supplying 13a at the same time. If everyone has a car plugged in, the supply may not take it (given the existing consumption remains)
Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 1st August 22:28
Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 1st August 22:33
Gary C said:
Of course you could use smart chargers that allow the distribution company to load manage, but I'm sure people will be unhappy to find their charger was switched off.
Not saying it won't happen, just that the broadband rollout to many domestic areas will be nothing like what's required to charge 30 million cars.
Let's face it, broadband didn't need new power stations !
But its not going to suddenly explode to 30m. It'll be drip fed at a fraction, a tiny fraction of the rate that broadband expanded.Not saying it won't happen, just that the broadband rollout to many domestic areas will be nothing like what's required to charge 30 million cars.
Let's face it, broadband didn't need new power stations !
Ultrafunkula said:
I agree, but assuming the majority of households with road parking are in citys or suburbs where it may be easier to reach public charging points, I wonder how much of a problem that would be. If it was a big problem I guess they would go hybrid or continue to run an old ICE vehicle.
Not true, there are plenty of terraced cottages in villages.Housing stock UK (millions) data for 2015
Terraced 6.7
Semi detached 6.0
Detached 4.0
Bungalow 2.1
Flat 4.1
Not an indication of location or desire for a charging point, but may give an indication of suitability for a home charging point.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Terraced 6.7
Semi detached 6.0
Detached 4.0
Bungalow 2.1
Flat 4.1
Not an indication of location or desire for a charging point, but may give an indication of suitability for a home charging point.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
ash73 said:
Evanivitch said:
C2996 said:
Why's nobody talking about hydrogen cells or other forms of power
Hydrogen is just a form of energy. Either from CO2 intensive sources or energy intensive sources. It doesn't exist in an easy form.Then it has to be stored and distributed. We don't have that infrastructure in place. It is not the equivalent of petrol infrastructure.
Currently there are huge maintenance demands for hydrogen cars. Toyota Mirai service is every 5000 miles and they need specially prepared workshops to handle hydrogen. All issues that can be overcome, but with a range of 312 miles and limited infrastructure, where's the benefit? (I can count 14 Hydrogen stations on Zap maps in the whole of England Wales and Scotland).
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