No ICE from 2040?!?
Discussion
The Crack Fox said:
This thread has the potential to be the longest ever on PH.
Climate change is a global phenomenon, argue about what it means, what the effects are of cars, whatever - it is a global thing. Unless the Chinese, Indians and Yanks make an identical effort to clean up then us lot being forced into Nissan Leafs will make f
k all difference to the world.
So we shouldn't bother doing anything until others start first?Climate change is a global phenomenon, argue about what it means, what the effects are of cars, whatever - it is a global thing. Unless the Chinese, Indians and Yanks make an identical effort to clean up then us lot being forced into Nissan Leafs will make f
k all difference to the world. As it happens China and the US are well ahead of the UK in terms of policymaking.
Salamura said:
What utter bks. It is ridiculous that politics is trying to drive technology, when it should be the other way around. This only shows how short-sighted politicians are...
https://youtu.be/kwFvJog2dMwks. It is ridiculous that politics is trying to drive technology, when it should be the other way around. This only shows how short-sighted politicians are... Edited by Zonergem on Wednesday 26th July 12:26
austinsmirk said:
I'm like a stuck record on this, but we bought a Nissan Leaf this year. For financial reasons really. rather than saving the planet
in a nutshell, as a second car for the wife and children running around duties, its genius. I'd always have one now.
Our diesel bill was £200 a mth, its now £65 diesel and about £15/£20 electric. The car is virtually paying for itself.
Plus if you follow the forums on them, they appear to be faultless. Now no ICE is achieving that.
I agree there is a real place for electric cars, and that they make a lot of sense for certain usage patterns.in a nutshell, as a second car for the wife and children running around duties, its genius. I'd always have one now.
Our diesel bill was £200 a mth, its now £65 diesel and about £15/£20 electric. The car is virtually paying for itself.
Plus if you follow the forums on them, they appear to be faultless. Now no ICE is achieving that.
The financial advantage is strong, but it's also short term. It's going to have to be.
According to the RAC Foundation, tax makes up 66% of the pump price of diesel, so your tax "bill" has dropped by about £90 a month, even factoring in the 5% VAT you are paying on £20 worth of electricity (a whole quid).
With plug-in EVs having a roughly 1% share of the market, it's not a big deal. If/when this grows to double digit percentages though, that's a heck of a hit for the Treasury, and one that will be very quickly addressed through new taxes. According to the OBR, nearly 4% of all UK tax revenue comes from fuel duty and VAT. That is going to have to be replaced somehow as it dwindles.
It's all very noble and all, and for what it's worth I actually like the idea of an EV as my everyday car, but without the rest of the infrastructure to go with it the goverment may as well say 'free solid gold toilet seats for all by 2040'
It'll be interesting when the day comes that the need for charging stations means that petrol stations start being replaced or transitioning. With massive infrastructure changes required, what's the bet that ICE powered generators running off the underground tanks become a fixture of motorway service stations in the next 10 years?
It needs to be a progressive changeover, and blunt statements like this are more damaging to the specialist car industry than they are helpful to the cause of promoting progress IMHO
It'll be interesting when the day comes that the need for charging stations means that petrol stations start being replaced or transitioning. With massive infrastructure changes required, what's the bet that ICE powered generators running off the underground tanks become a fixture of motorway service stations in the next 10 years?
It needs to be a progressive changeover, and blunt statements like this are more damaging to the specialist car industry than they are helpful to the cause of promoting progress IMHO
I'm sure that there will be a lot of angry people - happens when their toys are taken away for the greater good; firearms, smoking in public places...
However, this has been talked about for a long time - surely everyone saw this coming?
It isn't only the UK...France announced it and so have other Countries. It is happening - get used to it.
The Manufacturers have been ramping production of Hybrids and Electric only and the reason is obvious; they saw this coming before you did.
2040 is some way off for the tech to improve across the board, that's both supply and fuel. You simply cannot debate or compare current vehicles to those that will be available in 2040.
2040 is also a start date. It doesn't mean ICE vehicles are banned from the roads - you just won't be able to buy them new anymore. This means that Hybrids and Electric vehicles will only replace ICE over the following decades and no doubt Hybrids will go too eventually.
The Future of car ownership in an ever-expanding population is not one of individual ownership. You are enjoying this as one of the last Generations to do so. Shared Ownership and Public Ownership of vehicles you call upon as and when required is the future. It isn't sustainable to continue as we have been, no matter what Rights you think this infringes upon - again, get used to the idea, like it or not.
The reality is that a line in the sand has been drawn because it has been agreed that current Tech is close enough to pretty much guarantee with a little push, the tech required to make this work is achievable by that date.
Sure, it may seem to some far-fetched given how 'slow' this tech has been in arriving but it is speeding up exponentially now thanks to a more serious commitment from Governments and Manufacturers alike.
Will the date actually be achievable? Well, we're going to find out. But concerns about how you are going to charge that car you own parked outside of your apartment on a Public road are not going to considered an issue - there will be alternatives by 2040 access to a car may just be a bit different to what you have now.
Embrace Progress! I'm all for it! My first Hybrid arrives in November!
However, this has been talked about for a long time - surely everyone saw this coming?
It isn't only the UK...France announced it and so have other Countries. It is happening - get used to it.
The Manufacturers have been ramping production of Hybrids and Electric only and the reason is obvious; they saw this coming before you did.
2040 is some way off for the tech to improve across the board, that's both supply and fuel. You simply cannot debate or compare current vehicles to those that will be available in 2040.
2040 is also a start date. It doesn't mean ICE vehicles are banned from the roads - you just won't be able to buy them new anymore. This means that Hybrids and Electric vehicles will only replace ICE over the following decades and no doubt Hybrids will go too eventually.
The Future of car ownership in an ever-expanding population is not one of individual ownership. You are enjoying this as one of the last Generations to do so. Shared Ownership and Public Ownership of vehicles you call upon as and when required is the future. It isn't sustainable to continue as we have been, no matter what Rights you think this infringes upon - again, get used to the idea, like it or not.
The reality is that a line in the sand has been drawn because it has been agreed that current Tech is close enough to pretty much guarantee with a little push, the tech required to make this work is achievable by that date.
Sure, it may seem to some far-fetched given how 'slow' this tech has been in arriving but it is speeding up exponentially now thanks to a more serious commitment from Governments and Manufacturers alike.
Will the date actually be achievable? Well, we're going to find out. But concerns about how you are going to charge that car you own parked outside of your apartment on a Public road are not going to considered an issue - there will be alternatives by 2040 access to a car may just be a bit different to what you have now.
Embrace Progress! I'm all for it! My first Hybrid arrives in November!
At the moment the technology is still young. Batteries are improving but still have a way to go. The cars are still a bit niche and designer, and costly.
If I could get an EV for shed money that would do the tip and B&Q runs then I'd snap one up, but until then a 27 year old Toyota will suffice.
At the moment 95%+ of my journeys would be fine in an EV, however 80% of my mileage wouldn't (we do 2 miles or so each way to work, plus a 400-600 mile or more round trip from South Devon every few weeks and the odd continental tour).
What will make EVs widely acceptable is a common platform, a standard battery. If I could roll into Cherwell Valley services fuel station, shove my credit card into a machine, and something comes out of the ground, removes my flat battery pack and slots in another one with enough charge to get me to Huddersfield, or I can swap at Poole and again in Le Mans, then I'd have one.
[EDIT] I wonder if manufacturers would standardise on an inductive charger, like my electric toothbrush. Most cars will be self driving by then so they could toddle off to a facility somewhere or even build them into parking bays. It would solve a lot of infrastructure problems for people who don't have a driveway
If I could get an EV for shed money that would do the tip and B&Q runs then I'd snap one up, but until then a 27 year old Toyota will suffice.
At the moment 95%+ of my journeys would be fine in an EV, however 80% of my mileage wouldn't (we do 2 miles or so each way to work, plus a 400-600 mile or more round trip from South Devon every few weeks and the odd continental tour).
What will make EVs widely acceptable is a common platform, a standard battery. If I could roll into Cherwell Valley services fuel station, shove my credit card into a machine, and something comes out of the ground, removes my flat battery pack and slots in another one with enough charge to get me to Huddersfield, or I can swap at Poole and again in Le Mans, then I'd have one.
[EDIT] I wonder if manufacturers would standardise on an inductive charger, like my electric toothbrush. Most cars will be self driving by then so they could toddle off to a facility somewhere or even build them into parking bays. It would solve a lot of infrastructure problems for people who don't have a driveway
Edited by DevonPaul on Wednesday 26th July 13:12
The general public do as they are taxed, there is no need to ban, just whack up the biks for ICE, keep em low for electric and watch em pile in.
You then have the issue of addressing the shortfall in fuel duty - this is probably road tolls, some kind of tariff on electricity used to charge the things or higher VED (the last one seems unlikely).
Personally I think the whole think will be skipped through the advent of driverless, if you have used the pod parking at T5 you have glimpsed the future.
You then have the issue of addressing the shortfall in fuel duty - this is probably road tolls, some kind of tariff on electricity used to charge the things or higher VED (the last one seems unlikely).
Personally I think the whole think will be skipped through the advent of driverless, if you have used the pod parking at T5 you have glimpsed the future.
BoRED S2upid said:
... oh and then there are those oil industry types who of course will just accept a government killing their business I'm sure they won't be lobbying to prevent this.
Interesting to see that the floating wind turbines being towed across the North Sea were all branded Statoil.Charlie Hoskins said:
"The strategy comes amid warnings that the UK’s high level of air pollution could be be responsible for 40,000 premature deaths a year."
"Could be".
Not the same as "is". Is it ?
So........ the motive is the health and well-being of the nation then ?
Prove it.
Ban smoking.
Now.
I hate that quote.... when you actually read the study, they can't really be sure at all. Too much a wood for the trees scenario. But its a great sound-bite to base policy on of course."Could be".
Not the same as "is". Is it ?
So........ the motive is the health and well-being of the nation then ?
Prove it.
Ban smoking.
Now.
BoRED S2upid said:
This won't be happening by 2040 if ever. I love these snap decision made by a current government to appease someone. No thought given to the loss of tax take on fuel, the raw materials required to make the batteries which we all know don't cause any damage to anyone oh and then there are those oil industry types who of course will just accept a government killing their business I'm sure they won't be lobbying to prevent this.
But yes time to stockpile a few nice Petrol cars before 2040 we can still be using them well into the future if this ever did materialise.
Ref the oil industry - it matters relatively little, is already accepted so I would not expect it to be blocked or lobbied hard against.But yes time to stockpile a few nice Petrol cars before 2040 we can still be using them well into the future if this ever did materialise.
80% of oil demand comes from other parts of the transport sector and from industry - EV won't kill off the oil companies.
Petrol stations will transform to become charging hubs - a lot of the oil majors have already sold off forecourts to concentrate on their core business of exploration, production and refining.. those that remain make as much profit from coffee and mars bars as they do on fuel, so the model still works in the future.
BoRED S2upid said:
This won't be happening by 2040 if ever. I love these snap decision made by a current government to appease someone.
It's hilarious isn't it?The government struggle to keep their word over a period of a couple of weeks, but they tell us something will definitely happen
in 22 years and PH turns into a bunch of clucking chickens.
jeremyh1 said:
I have thought carefully about this and read and listened to many interviews on the subject
They say about the effect on the environment and the health people We hope they are telling the truth and we have to trust that this ill health is caused by combustion engine fumes
Much of these changes if not all have been driven by the EU . It is well known that the EU despise the power the big oil barons have over the world economy .
I will guess that this is the perfect storm for the EU something they could only dream of as this is the one thing that will kick the big oil companies into touch
I love quotes like this.They say about the effect on the environment and the health people We hope they are telling the truth and we have to trust that this ill health is caused by combustion engine fumes
Much of these changes if not all have been driven by the EU . It is well known that the EU despise the power the big oil barons have over the world economy .
I will guess that this is the perfect storm for the EU something they could only dream of as this is the one thing that will kick the big oil companies into touch
I just googled it, and could find no reference to the EU's dislike of large oil companies. But you say it is well known? Is it?
covmutley said:
PhantomPH said:
The diff between REX and non is only 30km (I hate using km, but I am quoting from the site here!). 300km vs 330km. I might have been tempted to save myself £3k and ditch the REX...perhaps check a couple of extra options?
I think it is more than that. Adds 80 miles at expense of EV. But I can keep re-fuelling, with a short top up stop. So should be no range anxiety at all, whereas i dont trust the EV infrastructure enough currently. Range 300km - total range 200km??? WTF?
Range 231km - range with REX 330km??? HUH???!!! *splode*
The Crack Fox said:
plenty said:
The Crack Fox said:
This thread has the potential to be the longest ever on PH.
Climate change is a global phenomenon, argue about what it means, what the effects are of cars, whatever - it is a global thing. Unless the Chinese, Indians and Yanks make an identical effort to clean up then us lot being forced into Nissan Leafs will make fk all difference to the world.
So we shouldn't bother doing anything until others start first?Climate change is a global phenomenon, argue about what it means, what the effects are of cars, whatever - it is a global thing. Unless the Chinese, Indians and Yanks make an identical effort to clean up then us lot being forced into Nissan Leafs will make f
k all difference to the world. As it happens China and the US are well ahead of the UK in terms of policymaking.
Some numbers plucked off the 'net to show how futile forcing us into EVs in the UK actually is -
8% of the world's CO2 comes from the UK and 20% of the UK's CO2 comes from transport and roughly half of that comes from passenger cars .
So, less than 1% of the world's CO2 comes from UK cars, (and consider that this is old data, newer cars are much cleaner and there's a natural progression towards EVs anyway without further legislation) - what difference to the global environment does what I drive to work really make? If I sound like a Luddite, I am not, I am currently working in renewable energy and cycle most places I can - I just think this new announcement is a load of b
ks in the grand scheme of things. Edited by The Crack Fox on Wednesday 26th July 13:43
This is not the focus here - why are you confused on that?
The Crack Fox said:
Policymaking on what? Try breathing the air in New York or Beijing. It's like soup! Do you think they'll really look at us and follow suit? When have they ever done that? They still have the death penalty, for example.
Some numbers plucked off the 'net to show how futile forcing us into EVs in the UK actually is -
8% of the world's CO2 comes from the UK and 20% of the UK's CO2 comes from transport and roughly half of that comes from passenger cars .
So, less than 1% of the world's CO2 comes from UK cars, (and consider that this is old data, newer cars are much cleaner and there's a natural progression towards EVs anyway without further legislation) - what difference to the global environment does what I drive to work really make? If I sound like a Luddite, I am not, I am currently working in renewable energy and cycle most places I can - I just think this new announcement is a load of bks in the grand scheme of things.
I think you're missing the point. This legislation isn't primarily aimed at reducing CO2 emissions, it's about improving the quality of air. What happens in New York or Beijing is completely irrelevant to people being killed by air pollution in London.Some numbers plucked off the 'net to show how futile forcing us into EVs in the UK actually is -
8% of the world's CO2 comes from the UK and 20% of the UK's CO2 comes from transport and roughly half of that comes from passenger cars .
So, less than 1% of the world's CO2 comes from UK cars, (and consider that this is old data, newer cars are much cleaner and there's a natural progression towards EVs anyway without further legislation) - what difference to the global environment does what I drive to work really make? If I sound like a Luddite, I am not, I am currently working in renewable energy and cycle most places I can - I just think this new announcement is a load of b
ks in the grand scheme of things. Edited by The Crack Fox on Wednesday 26th July 13:43
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