Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.
Discussion
It looks like Tesla are *possibly* using their battery swapping tech on their truck. Owners of the cars never really wanted to use the battery swapping stations but for trucks it would make a lot more sense.
500 miles then a swap out at a truck depot and away again. Means the batteries can be charged slowly etc.
500 miles then a swap out at a truck depot and away again. Means the batteries can be charged slowly etc.
SimonYorkshire said:
SimonYorkshire said:
This thread is going all over the place with....me
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.'Come from somewhere'.. Define 'somewhere'.
Since you think LPG vehicles are so unpopular, it would seem a contradiction for you to think bringing LPG duty in line with petrol duty would make up the shortfall in government revenues. Others arguing your side have already made the point that government tax dirty fuels/practices more than clean fuels/practices. Government see LPG as a far cleaner fuel than petrol, this is at the intrinsic level, the belief they have is so strong that I don't have to prove that any of my converted vehicles produce less offending emissions than petrol engines, government(s) plural (read about the Paris windscreen sticker system) just take it for granted that LPG converted vehicles are cleaner and they are correct to take this for granted. LPG is set to remain very much lower than petrol duty for as long a period as you care to mention, LPG duty might even remain low if EVs become so popular that government need to start applying a lot of duty to electricity used to charge EVs... because it will still be a niche, while at this point EVs are not a niche.
I'll answer your new questions, which you managed to ask just about properly (except for the loaded q3).
I generally don't need to ask 1 or 2, the customer offers the information OR has already done the sums themselves before even approaching me. 3 Is a bit of a loaded question, I would only need to warn someone a conversion wouldn't be worth it if the sums said so, the sums usually say a conversion would be worth it for the customer - enquiries are more likely to come from people who have already thought about saving money on fuel bills over time, so are from people who are more likely to be doing higher mileage or looking to keep the car for a good while. Based on the answers to 1 and 2 I can advise how long before the LPG conversion will pay for itself (people can generally do the simple math on the spot anyway, or I will for them) and most people base their decision on either the payback period or on comparison of total money they'll spend on fuel while they expect to own the car.
An Astra might do 40 mpg, conversion cost £1100, Astra driver has to be doing a lot of miles or intending to keep the car a couple of years to make conversion seem worth it.
An Elgrand might do 20 mpg, conversion cost £1600, the Elgrand only has to drive 12000 miles on LPG for the conversion to have paid for itself.
Your hybrid might do 50mpg after it has flattened it's EV battery, conversion £1200. We know the owner expects to flatten the battery or there wouldn't be any point in it being a hybrid, it could otherwise just be a pure EV. In this case the conversion pays for itself after 26000 miles of running on the ice engine. If the ice engine in the hybrid can ever manage 70mpg there is little point in it having a battery and electric motor anyway because at this point the ice engine is more efficient than a power station.
DonkeyApple said:
I think massive hikes on energy taxation are inevitable and will be an easy political sell. First it'll be a tiny fee to save kittens and everyone will just accept it. Then as it grows each Budget various lobby groups will force discounts to specialist groups etc.
DonkeyApple said:
SimonYorkshire said:
Pleased to read DonkeyApple agrees with my point that the less of something you need the more tax can be applied to it.
You won't remain pleased for long as you very clearly cannot read. As such you have totally misunderstood what I was saying or much more likely deliberately distorted to try and make it fit your extreme and incorrect beliefs. In reality I have actually wholly disagreed with you as what I and others have been discussing is the wholesale migration away from fossil fuel taxation at the pumps and to the far more efficient taxation of household energy consumption.
With regards to your belief that taxation on petrol would rise to maintain the tax take on fossil fuels? Er, no. I disagree with you. It isn't exactly how economics work. Hence why all new taxation mechanisms will almost certainly be introduced. Exactly as we are currently facing with media consumption in the U.K.
rscott said:
Simon, are you an UKLPG Approved Autogas Installer ?
Am I a LTD company (if I am my website doesn't conform or something, right?) No I don't run a Ltd company. If I did run a limited company and ever went bust my customers couldn't ask me to recoup then out of my own pocket, being a Ltd company can put customers off. I take it that now you'll still criticise my website (which my customers say is the most informative on the subject despite not being pretty) since you can't now accuse me of breaking the law. Am I a UKLPG member now eh... Take it you think you can imply some negative point about me or my firm from the answers... Wrong! Another dig which actually turns out to be a compliment, just that you don't know what you're talking about. Why don't you post why you think I should be a UKLPG member and then I'll tell you why I'm not. Or if you fancy a long read this thread will help you understand. I'm pleased to say government don't seem to see much point in UKLPG either. http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=33&t...
I look forward to you trying to make something out of your UKLPG question, you will stand being corrected.
While you're at it, have a look around that forum and ask yourself who seems to know their stuff on the subject.
Ask yourself if you'd rather get involved in attempting personal digs (that fail) or answer my points. Seems you'd rather attempt the personal digs (some sort of botched smear campaign), maybe to avoid answering my points. You'd like me to disappear from this thread so you can dream about EVs with one less person pointing out the negatives.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Thursday 21st September 16:40
SimonYorkshire said:
rscott said:
Simon, are you an UKLPG Approved Autogas Installer ?
Am I a LTD company (if I am my website doesn't conform or something, right?) No I don't run a Ltd company. If I did run a limited company and ever went bust my customers couldn't ask me to recoup then out of my own pocket, being a Ltd company can put customers off. I take it that now you'll still criticise my website (which my customers say is the most informative on the subject despite not being pretty) since you can't now accuse me of breaking the law. Am I a UKLPG member now eh... Take it you think you can imply some negative point about me or my firm from the answers... Wrong! Another dig which actually turns out to be a compliment, just that you don't know what you're talking about. Why don't you post why you think I should be a UKLPG member and then I'll tell you why I'm not. Or if you fancy a long read this thread will help you understand. I'm pleased to say government don't seem to see much point in UKLPG either. http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=33&t...
While you're at it, have a look around that forum and ask yourself who seems to know their stuff on the subject.
Ask yourself if you'd rather get involved in attempting personal digs (that fail) or answer my points. Seems you'd rather attempt the personal digs (some sort of botched smear campaign), maybe to avoid answering my points. You'd like me to disappear from this thread so you can dream about EVs with one less person pointing out the negatives.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Thursday 21st September 16:38
My only comment on your website is that it looks amateurish and, if I were to find it on Google, might well assume the company is no longer active as it's not been updated for 5 years.
rscott said:
I'm asking because TFL will only register a taxi or PHV converted to LPG if it was carried out by a UKPLG Approved installer. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/alternative-fuel-age-lim... . They seem to consider it relevant.
My only comment on your website is that it looks amateurish and, if I were to find it on Google, might well assume the company is no longer active as it's not been updated for 5 years.
For starters, just because I'm not a UKLPG member doesn't mean I cannot register any vehicle I wish on UKLPGs database... I can do that just by making a phone call. I don't wish to support UKLPG by being a member, I don't believe they do anything to promote the industry (rather the opposite) and the scheme they run (which is supposedly about safety of converted vehicle safety) is completely farcical. I suggested other schemes that don't need to involve UKLPG and, has it happens, government have changed some policies that nod toward my suggestions. UKLPG is a fair sized trade body that deals mostly with the likes of gas distributors like Calor Gas, one man who works their saw an opening for UKLPG to profit from Autogas and he is the one man at UKLPG sat in an office currently running their whole autogas setup. If I convert a taxi and TFL want it to be UKLPG registered that isn't a problem at all. My only comment on your website is that it looks amateurish and, if I were to find it on Google, might well assume the company is no longer active as it's not been updated for 5 years.
I know my website looks amateurish, I've answered this criticism on this thread before. When I read a company website I often get the impression most of the content, ideas and wording are the product of the website developer rather than anyone who works at the firm. On the home page of my website I make it clear that I was responsible for every word, idea, and the layout of the site - I hope potential readers will appreciate that the wording hasn't come from some website developer with his standard set of ways of selling a companies product including hyping minor points etc that the real business owner might not hype. You get the picture. My son in law is a web developer but there is so much content, including technical, on my site that to sit down with him and go through everything would take longer than to do it myself, and if he did it I wouldn't be able to claim it was all my content. It hasn't been updated for 5 years because I haven't had the time! But yes, I would like to tidy it up and add some new content, including a gallery of some of the vehicles I've converted like this one for example. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
I don't mind the friendly tone in your most recent reply, but still suspect your intentions regards Ltd company etc. In the context of this thread, why worry about it?
SimonYorkshire said:
rscott said:
I'm asking because TFL will only register a taxi or PHV converted to LPG if it was carried out by a UKPLG Approved installer. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/alternative-fuel-age-lim... . They seem to consider it relevant.
My only comment on your website is that it looks amateurish and, if I were to find it on Google, might well assume the company is no longer active as it's not been updated for 5 years.
For starters, just because I'm not a UKLPG member doesn't mean I cannot register any vehicle I wish on UKLPGs database... I can do that just by making a phone call. I don't wish to support UKLPG by being a member, I don't believe they do anything to promote the industry (rather the opposite) and the scheme they run (which is supposedly about safety of converted vehicle safety) is completely farcical. I suggested other schemes that don't need to involve UKLPG and, has it happens, government have changed some policies that nod toward my suggestions. UKLPG is a fair sized trade body that deals mostly with the likes of gas distributors like Calor Gas, one man who works their saw an opening for UKLPG to profit from Autogas and he is the one man at UKLPG sat in an office currently running their whole autogas setup. If I convert a taxi and TFL want it to be UKLPG registered that isn't a problem at all. My only comment on your website is that it looks amateurish and, if I were to find it on Google, might well assume the company is no longer active as it's not been updated for 5 years.
I know my website looks amateurish, I've answered this criticism on this thread before. When I read a company website I often get the impression most of the content, ideas and wording are the product of the website developer rather than anyone who works at the firm. On the home page of my website I make it clear that I was responsible for every word, idea, and the layout of the site - I hope potential readers will appreciate that the wording hasn't come from some website developer with his standard set of ways of selling a companies product including hyping minor points etc that the real business owner might not hype. You get the picture. My son in law is a web developer but there is so much content, including technical, on my site that to sit down with him and go through everything would take longer than to do it myself, and if he did it I wouldn't be able to claim it was all my content. It hasn't been updated for 5 years because I haven't had the time! But yes, I would like to tidy it up and add some new content, including a gallery of some of the vehicles I've converted like this one for example. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
I don't mind the friendly tone in your most recent reply, but still suspect your intentions regards Ltd company etc. In the context of this thread, why worry about it?
rscott said:
Read the 2nd item on page 2 of the TFL document. Just getting a vehicle you've converted on the register isn't sufficient for TFL. The actual installation must be carried out by a UKLPG approved installer.
You mean this item. • All LPG systems must be installed by a UKLPG Approved Autogas
Installer. All vehicles presented for taxi or PHV licensing in London with
an installed LPG fuel system must be registered on the UKLPG
Register.
Have you noticed how the two points in this item are not listed under separate bullets. In practice the document incorrectly assumes the second point 'must be registered on the UKLPG register' relies on the first point 'All LPG systems must be installed by a UKLPG approved autogas installer' being true, but that is an incorrect assumption. The real meaning here is that it isn't good enough that the vehicle is converted by a UKLPG member, it must be registered on UKLPGs database.
Similarly, despite UKLPG's claim that people wouldn't be able to insure their cars if an LPG conversion was carried out by an installer who wasn't their member, this was never true. All insurers ever required (at one time) was that the vehicle passed a check by one of UKLPG's (LPGA's) members, it didn't matter if the vehicle was converted by a member or not. There was a time when most insurers required the vehicle to be registered with UKLPG (LPGA) but now around 95% of insurers don't care if the vehicle has been registered with UKLPG or not. The law says vehicles must be converted by competent persons and the install meet the BSEN standard, the law says nothing about UKLPG or it's members. DVLA don't take any notice of UKLPG. UKLPG is a privately run profit making trade organisation, it's COP11 is a simplified cut down version of the BSEN standard. The MOT now checks most of the aspects that a COP11 check would check anyway, none of which is rocket science...
If I did need to become a member of UKLPG it would be a very simple matter for me to do that, and believe me Mike Chapman of UKLPG would love me to do that, but I would be loathe to!
SimonYorkshire said:
rscott said:
Read the 2nd item on page 2 of the TFL document. Just getting a vehicle you've converted on the register isn't sufficient for TFL. The actual installation must be carried out by a UKLPG approved installer.
You mean this item. • All LPG systems must be installed by a UKLPG Approved Autogas
Installer. All vehicles presented for taxi or PHV licensing in London with
an installed LPG fuel system must be registered on the UKLPG
Register.
Have you noticed how the two points in this item are not listed under separate bullets. In practice the document incorrectly assumes the second point 'must be registered on the UKLPG register' relies on the first point 'All LPG systems must be installed by a UKLPG approved autogas installer' being true, but that is an incorrect assumption. The real meaning here is that it isn't good enough that the vehicle is converted by a UKLPG member, it must be registered on UKLPGs database.
Similarly, despite UKLPG's claim that people wouldn't be able to insure their cars if an LPG conversion was carried out by an installer who wasn't their member, this was never true. All insurers ever required (at one time) was that the vehicle passed a check by one of UKLPG's (LPGA's) members, it didn't matter if the vehicle was converted by a member or not. There was a time when most insurers required the vehicle to be registered with UKLPG (LPGA) but now around 95% of insurers don't care if the vehicle has been registered with UKLPG or not. The law says vehicles must be converted by competent persons and the install meet the BSEN standard, the law says nothing about UKLPG or it's members. DVLA don't take any notice of UKLPG. UKLPG is a privately run profit making trade organisation, it's COP11 is a simplified cut down version of the BSEN standard. The MOT now checks most of the aspects that a COP11 check would check anyway, none of which is rocket science...
If I did need to become a member of UKLPG it would be a very simple matter for me to do that, and believe me Mike Chapman of UKLPG would love me to do that, but I would be loathe to!
That the installer must be UKPLG accredited and the vehicle on the register.
So what if UKPLG is a privately run company? Gas Safe is also one (it's a service provided by Capita).
I've seen your views on UKPLG on that other forum. I've also noticed how argumentative and unable to comprehend facts presented by others on there too.
SimonYorkshire said:
government have changed some policies that nod toward my suggestions.
SimonYorkshire said:
I know my website looks amateurish
SimonYorkshire said:
I hope potential readers will appreciate that the wording hasn't come from some website developer with his standard set of ways of selling a companies product including hyping minor points etc that the real business owner might not hype.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.I've explained my take on websites, I've been honest and I still think I have a good point, my customers do too. I suppose you think tradesmen etc come up with all the wording for their websites themselves.. and hire them according to how good it looks and how cleverly worded they are.
Don't much care what you think so I'll keep you guessing about whether I'm normal, dyslexic or have autism. In the meantime the something I have going on is making points that you'd rather not answer. You seem to prefer diversion, obfuscation and now personal slander over addressing points made. I don't think anybody yet answered my point that EVs using batteries might be wasted development if nuclear fusion is invented, why don't you have a crack at that one.
rscott said:
Your abilities know no bounds. Now you can read the mind of the person who wrote that document to determine that the words in it don't mean what any sane person would think.
That the installer must be UKPLG accredited and the vehicle on the register.
So what if UKPLG is a privately run company? Gas Safe is also one (it's a service provided by Capita).
I've seen your views on UKPLG on that other forum. I've also noticed how argumentative and unable to comprehend facts presented by others on there too.
And yet most of the things I said should happen in that thread did happen. The MOT now includes a check of the LPG system installation, more insurers are unconcerned as to status of UKLPG database registration, even some insurers that say they want vehicles to be on UKLPG database will disregard the database status if the vehicle has been registered with DVLA as petrol/LPG fuel type or if the vehicle has passed an MOT since it was converted. The last remaining UKLPG member supplier went bust, mostly due to it's involvement /limitations imposed by UKLPG, which I might add I warned them would happen. The supply of the manufacturer equipment that was supplied by that firm is now handled by a none UKLPG member supplier. That the installer must be UKPLG accredited and the vehicle on the register.
So what if UKPLG is a privately run company? Gas Safe is also one (it's a service provided by Capita).
I've seen your views on UKPLG on that other forum. I've also noticed how argumentative and unable to comprehend facts presented by others on there too.
The situations with Gas Safe / UKLPG couldn't be much more different. And as I pointed out before, if I wanted or needed to become a UKLPG member, that is ridiculously easy to do. I maintain that this part of the document is poorly worded.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Thursday 21st September 20:23
jjwilde said:
It looks like Tesla are *possibly* using their battery swapping tech on their truck. Owners of the cars never really wanted to use the battery swapping stations but for trucks it would make a lot more sense.
500 miles then a swap out at a truck depot and away again. Means the batteries can be charged slowly etc.
That makes far more sense, charging a 1000kwh battery won't happen quickly 500 miles then a swap out at a truck depot and away again. Means the batteries can be charged slowly etc.
SimonYorkshire said:
I still think I have a good point,
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.No I don't remember your 'contact' with LPG conversions donkey years ago, why don't you remind us what you're talking about and make a point if you have one.
I doubt I make you laugh, you struggle to answer my points.
SimonYorkshire said:
Government see LPG as a far cleaner fuel than petrol, this is at the intrinsic level, the belief they have is so strong that I don't have to prove that any of my converted vehicles produce less offending emissions than petrol engines, government(s) plural (read about the Paris windscreen sticker system) just take it for granted that LPG converted vehicles are cleaner and they are correct to take this for granted. LPG is set to remain very much lower than petrol duty for as long a period as you care to mention, LPG duty might even remain low if EVs become so popular that government need to start applying a lot of duty to electricity used to charge EVs... because it will still be a niche, while at this point EVs are not a niche.
Which may have been true in the past, but you have been provided scientific papers that have proven that LPG does not reduce all emissions against the latest emissions standards, and infact increases emissions in certain aspects.But I wouldn't expect you to deal with facts.
SimonYorkshire said:
I don't think anybody yet answered my point that EVs using batteries might be wasted development if nuclear fusion is invented, why don't you have a crack at that one.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.SimonYorkshire said:
being a Ltd company can put customers off.
https://youtu.be/_Jjpawu6rfMEdited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 21st September 21:36
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