Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.

[SimonYorkshire]

swamp said:

The inverter, charger and battery all lose a bit of energy. No doubt some small improvements to be made there.

Totally correct, as does the grid, both aspects I had realised but hadn't needed to touch upon in making my points. There are not many electrical items that can be near 100% efficient, among them are electric motors (as I said and as I've just noticed Maxtorque has since said), transformers and electric heaters. Long power cables and rectifiers are not 100% efficient, these have been necessary since day of electricity but haven't become near 100% efficient in all that time (power cables especially).

[JonnyVTEC]

swamp said:

http://pushevs.com/2016/11/23/electric-cars-range-...

Hyundai IONIQ comes out on top with 15.40 kWh/100 km
Tesla Model S ranks bottom at 20.13 kWh/100 km

And that’s the problem with the “when they do 300 miles I’ll consider one” when in reality you end up having to buy an expensive and inefficient variant of an EV for those 2 weeks of the year when you actually need that range.

[flibbage0]

I can see charging working overnight for those that have underground parking or park in multi storey car parks, or those that have detached houses or apartments that have a bay allocated.

The big problem is charging your car if you live in a house that has no driveway and you have to park on the road, are they going to install dozens of charging points along the road on both sides?

Also what is going to stop people from unplugging them or vandalising the charge points?

[otolith]

swamp said:

http://pushevs.com/2016/11/23/electric-cars-range-...

Hyundai IONIQ comes out on top with 15.40 kWh/100 km
Tesla Model S ranks bottom at 20.13 kWh/100 km

Big fast car in less efficient than small slow car shock!

[rscott]

flibbage0 said:

I can see charging working overnight for those that have underground parking or park in multi storey car parks, or those that have detached houses or apartments that have a bay allocated.

The big problem is charging your car if you live in a house that has no driveway and you have to park on the road, are they going to install dozens of charging points along the road on both sides?

Also what is going to stop people from unplugging them or vandalising the charge points?

Some councils are installing charging points in lamp posts already. Not an option everywhere, but can work for some.
Others may have the option for workplace charging as an alternative.

For others, there isn't an answer (yet). I guess that's why they've announced end of ICE date.. to encourage development of alternatives.

[anonymous-user]

rscott said:

Some councils are installing charging points in lamp posts already. Not an option everywhere, but can work for some.
Others may have the option for workplace charging as an alternative.

For others, there isn't an answer (yet). I guess that's why they've announced end of ICE date.. to encourage development of alternatives.

They haven't actually announced any specific end date for ICE, for the record. It's pure speculation and media frenzy perpetuated by threads such as this and people such as you. And even if "they" had actually specifically stated "the end IS nigh", only a fool would think that there is any fundamental truth in a politicians so called word in todays world, let alone over 20 years from now.

[Homer Jay]

I would only have an electric car if I had a lot of money to spend in a Tesla.
And if I had that kind of money, I wouln't buy an electric car as I don't have to think about the petrol costs.

Get me a commute small electric for 10k and we'll see

[AW111]

RobDickinson said:

That makes far more sense, charging a 1000kwh battery won't happen quickly

I worked for a paper mill for a while. All the finished product was shipped about 25 miles to the distribution centre / warehouse, and then despatched from there.
The shuttle to the dist. centre could easily convert to electric IMO.
Bear in mind that the vast majority of urban freight is volume limited rather than weight. In my papermill example, a full load of tissues / paper towels / toilet paper will be nowhere near the truck's weight limit.

The distribution centre used battery swap forklifts when I was there 5 years ago.

[ikarl]

flibbage0 said:

I can see charging working overnight for those that have underground parking or park in multi storey car parks, or those that have detached houses or apartments that have a bay allocated.

The big problem is charging your car if you live in a house that has no driveway and you have to park on the road, are they going to install dozens of charging points along the road on both sides?

Also what is going to stop people from unplugging them or vandalising the charge points?

I've covered 2,700 miles so far and haven't yet charged at home. Incidentally, apart from my annual £20 Charge-Your-Car membership, it hasn't cost me anything either.

[Pvapour]

I know its flawed but it still amuses, the latest drag, a whole rack of latest ice cars...

https://drivemag.com/news/behold-the-world-s-great...

[rscott]

DoubleTime said:

rscott said:

Some councils are installing charging points in lamp posts already. Not an option everywhere, but can work for some.
Others may have the option for workplace charging as an alternative.

For others, there isn't an answer (yet). I guess that's why they've announced end of ICE date.. to encourage development of alternatives.

They haven't actually announced any specific end date for ICE, for the record. It's pure speculation and media frenzy perpetuated by threads such as this and people such as you. And even if "they" had actually specifically stated "the end IS nigh", only a fool would think that there is any fundamental truth in a politicians so called word in todays world, let alone over 20 years from now.

So are these incredibly poor reporting, or are ICE only vehicles going to be banned by 2040 in the UK?

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-autos-id...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

[DonkeyApple]

rscott said:

InitialDave said:

Lots of useful advice.

He does have a very good point. A refresh with a more flowing style and more use of images (for example) would make it far more appealing to someone browsing sites if considering a conversion. I'd think a large number now move on quickly to a rival site which is easier to digest.

Given that you're keen to show off your work on that forum, adding a blog to your site to do so instead/as well would also make it more appealing and 'alive' to users.

To be honest, there might well be useful info on your site, but I gave up and looked elsewhere as I found it extremely unfriendly in comparison to others out there.

I would actually disagree.

Before changing an early type web page into and all singing and dancing current version you need to analyse the client base and establish what their expectations and needs are.

Fancy web pages all structured properly for the current world of ecommerce are only beneficial if you're selling to the people who operate in the modern world of ecommerce etc.

I have often found that web developers will storm into a meeting and want to build the latest, coolest dogs bks of a website but when asked about their analysis of the target demographic they will regurgitate the industry scripts. They won't have actually looked at the specific target client and asked what it is they want to see.

Take a look at one of the most popular retail financial websites in the U.K.: https://uk.advfn.com

I don't know a web developer on the planet who wouldn't find that website a monumental affront to humanity. It's ghastly.

But there is a very specific reason why it looks like it does and works how it does. And this reason is purely down to which section of society has the highest disposable income and within that group who are the easiest to flog products that don't really work to.

I would take a very basic guess that the typical LPG punter fits a profile that is not actually positively responsive to a very nice, modern, well throughout webpage but is rather responsive to something completely out of date, representative of when the country was a better place, to the point of being reassured. I suspect that we aren't looking at a collective that is pro Europe, forward thinking, tax paying, early adopters of tech.

I certainly wouldn't create a super fancy site, forward looking site for a business that was the exact opposite.

Conversely, if owners of hybrids did actually want to convert to LPG (which obviously they won't for many very obvious reasons) then there would be an argument that those types of consumers would require a very up to date website so as to get them to respond in any positive way.

[DonkeyApple]

flibbage0 said:

I can see charging working overnight for those that have underground parking or park in multi storey car parks, or those that have detached houses or apartments that have a bay allocated.

The big problem is charging your car if you live in a house that has no driveway and you have to park on the road, are they going to install dozens of charging points along the road on both sides?

Also what is going to stop people from unplugging them or vandalising the charge points?

Maybe they won't own a car? Or maybe they will buy a hybrid?

No shortage of bus stops near homes without parking. Private car ownership, like home ownership is likely to transpire to be a short term blip in those areas.

Or just buy a hybrid which is exactly what everyone who wishes to comply with new legislation but finds an EV impractical is already doing.

So not being able to charge an EV is not any kind of issue and there are already solutions in place without even starting to roll out public charging points down roads full of people who can't yet afford a pure EV.

[Pooh]

Homer Jay said:

I would only have an electric car if I had a lot of money to spend in a Tesla.
And if I had that kind of money, I wouln't buy an electric car as I don't have to think about the petrol costs.

Get me a commute small electric for 10k and we'll see

We are already very close to that, I have just ordered a new Renault Zoe Dynamic Nav for a little over £11k, I do have to lease the battery but the fuel saving is more than double the lease cost. It has a realistic range of around 180 miles which is enough for most of my journeys and I can charge it for free in two car parks close to my office.
I have to pay for parking but I am already paying for that via a monthly ticket so there is no additional cost.

[Welshbeef]

What's people's experience with charging points?
What's the reliability of them/anyone seen braokwn or faulty ones? What is the etiquette you are seeing with EV owners at charge points?

[rscott]

Welshbeef said:

What's people's experience with charging points?
What's the reliability of them/anyone seen braokwn or faulty ones? What is the etiquette you are seeing with EV owners at charge points?

Take a look at zap map - users post feedback on charging points on there. So it's easy to see how reliable a particular point is.

[98elise]

Welshbeef said:

What's people's experience with charging points?
What's the reliability of them/anyone seen braokwn or faulty ones? What is the etiquette you are seeing with EV owners at charge points?

My local car park at work has 5 charging points (3 Tesla and 2 other). Never seen one broken, only ever seen one non EV parked in one. Mostly unused but recently seen a Tesla regularly in a spot, and a Mercedes in the non Tesla chargers.

[Evanivitch]

Welshbeef said:

What's people's experience with charging points?
What's the reliability of them/anyone seen braokwn or faulty ones? What is the etiquette you are seeing with EV owners at charge points?

There's a huge variety of network operators and hardware. However, most systems are quite reliable, but those that do break are often not quickly fixed.

Etiquette is mixed, but some operators now charge extra if you go over the 1 hour fast charge period. This hopefully stops blockers, especially PHEV users in 330e etc.

ICE'ing is still an issue, but one slowly being reduced as signage and markings get better. And installers realising that putting the charge point closer than disabled access isn't the best idea!

[InitialDave]

DonkeyApple said:

rscott said:

InitialDave said:

Lots of useful advice.

He does have a very good point. A refresh with a more flowing style and more use of images (for example) would make it far more appealing to someone browsing sites if considering a conversion. I'd think a large number now move on quickly to a rival site which is easier to digest.

Given that you're keen to show off your work on that forum, adding a blog to your site to do so instead/as well would also make it more appealing and 'alive' to users.

To be honest, there might well be useful info on your site, but I gave up and looked elsewhere as I found it extremely unfriendly in comparison to others out there.

I would actually disagree.

Before changing an early type web page into and all singing and dancing current version you need to analyse the client base and establish what their expectations and needs are.

That wasn't what I said, though.

I was primarily saying make it clearer and more readable, and fix fundamental issues with the formatting.

This does not mean turning it into an infuriating mess. Quite the opposite, in fact. I specifically used Wikipedia as an example, which uses a very simple, legible format, consistently applied.

However, this:

DonkeyApple said:

I would take a very basic guess that the typical LPG punter fits a profile...

Was just beautifully harsh!

[anonymous-user]

Another day, another raft of electrification news!


1) EVs aren't any greener than ICE:

This has always been b*ll*cks, and now, as the Grid 'greens' it's even less true:



Source www.drax.com

So, driving my i3 this summer, assuming i was getting the official consumption figures (actually, as my commute is slow average speed, i was beating those figures! (try that in your ICE....)) i would have been doing, on average, 242 mpg. Nothing, and i mean nothing with an ICE (hybrid, LPG or what ever) can get anywhere close to that in the real world!)



1) There aren't any places to charge:




Shell launch EV charging at petrol stations: Shell_plans_Uk_Chargers

ShellUk said:

Later this year Shell plans to roll out high-speed electric vehicle charge points across a selection of its 400 UK service stations, allowing drivers to charge their electric vehicle batteries by up to 80pc in 30 minutes. The group is about to begin an 18-month pilot scheme to test what the forecourt of the future might look like. Service stations will be presented ambitiously as “retail destinations”, providing good quality food and coffee alongside high-speed Wi-Fi. The trial will also include collection points for online shopping deliveries to improve convenience.

3) Renewables are TOO expensive:





Source: extraordinary-decline-renewable-energy-prices-chris-anderson