Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.

[covmutley]

The thing is, I like cars, a lot. But I have a mortgage, family and do nearly 25k miles per year.

The reality is I need something reliable, efficient and cost effective. My octavia did a job, but my new i3 is quicker, easier, smoother, more interesting and just better.

I really want a 7 type car in the future but for now, it just wouldn't fit my life. Guess I will just have to be 'one of the EV types' enforcing it on others for now.

[Stick Legs]

Yes & No.

I have thought about this and have a friend who eulogises the benefits of having and EV. He owns a Tesla and an Ampera as his daily and I have had a go in both so am well aware of the benefits.
I have also driven an i3 on 24 hour test drive and I still bought a BMW 530d.

Why? Nearly new car that is a class leader and does everything I want for £24k nearly new.

Once EV tech matures and is sensible money then sure, but it is still too 'MiniDisc' right now. Not enough advance over CD's to change over.
Once EV's have their iPod moment, which they undoubtedly will do, I'll be interested.
The reasoning behind my analogy is that MiniDisc only tried to replace what CD's did. The MP3/Ipod players did so much more.

Tesla are nearly there, but at daft money and they look strange. IMHO.

I am however watching used i8 prices. As a toy it appeals.

[blearyeyedboy]

Homer Jay said:

I would only have an electric car if I had a lot of money to spend in a Tesla.
And if I had that kind of money, I wouln't buy an electric car as I don't have to think about the petrol costs.

Get me a commute small electric for 10k and we'll see

So, when does your new Twizzy arrive?

[anonymous-user]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

No throttle by wire on my daily, but it does have traction and stability control.

Interested to hear what car has both TCS and DSC yet a cable throttle? Sounds unlikely (or it's an old car where the Trac/Stab isn't linked to a torque managed engine, hence are, frankly, rubbish.......)

[rscott]

Max_Torque said:

Rat_Fink_67 said:

No throttle by wire on my daily, but it does have traction and stability control.

Interested to hear what car has both TCS and DSC yet a cable throttle? Sounds unlikely (or it's an old car where the Trac/Stab isn't linked to a torque managed engine, hence are, frankly, rubbish.......)

From his profile, I'd say a 2006 Mondeo ST220.

[Howitzer]

Max_Torque said:

Interested to hear what car has both TCS and DSC yet a cable throttle? Sounds unlikely (or it's an old car where the Trac/Stab isn't linked to a torque managed engine, hence are, frankly, rubbish.......)

My 500e has a cable and also a motor and traction control. When it kicks in you get whiplash and wonder who switched the engine off

I think range extenders or hybrids are for me when the change happens. More practical for how we use them and still with many of the benefits. I'll keep to what I enjoy for the foreseeable though as after a P90D demonstration I left very impressed but with no desire for one. The lack of noise, no change of character and physical sensations were not there, just a relentless shove which tails off.

As an everyday car though I wanted a Zoe but work falling off a cliff (my work revolves around the oil industry) meant it was a toy I couldn't warrant and now the deals aren't as good. I think Tesla went in the wrong direction and if they had made an Astra sized car with the range of 200 miles or so they would have been far more successful, as a marketing tool though the model S is doing a great job.

The Model S is a great car but is the top of the tree with regards to what Indont like in modern cars. No connection and what you do get feels synthetic, much like the Golf R, any kind of sound management done electrically and more and more gears. Efficiency can't be argued against but if I enjoyed efficiency Inwouldnt be a car fan.

Electric cars don't worry me, what will happen to our hobby and day to day enjoyment certainly will. Will be an interesting next 20 years but if it results in the banning of internal combustion engines it will be a very sad and joyless one for many.

Dave!

[kambites]

Howitzer said:

Will be an interesting next 20 years but if it results in the banning of internal combustion engines it will be a very sad and joyless one for many.

The primary reason I want the EV switch to happen as fast as possible is that I think it'll minimise the chances of ICE power cars being either legislated or taxed off the roads. I want ICEs to become politically (and environmentally) insignificant as soon as possible so I can keep driving mine.

I also want an EV for a family car. Liking the two types of drivetrain is not mutually exclusive.

[DonkeyApple]

jjwilde said:

Now we are seeing a standard to 200-300mile ranges on EVs from 2018 charging away from home will become much more rare. Only long motorway adventures will require maybe one stop to recharge in the UK.

Everyone else will just wake up every day to a full tank charged over night.

By the time EVs hit 50% of new sales I'd expect we will be seeing ranges 300-400miles as the standard, even less call for charging...

I suspect that what you will also see as the product penetrates society is the realisation that the average consumer doesn't require £40,000 worth of batteries to lug around but can actually get by on much less. I think that when you reach the point of people buying their second or third pure EV you will see them not forking out for 400 mile ranges but settling for a third of that or less while those who genuinely (rather that psychologically) opt for the more logical hybrid vehicle. Beyond people who really love EV which is the average consumer currently, I honestly don't see the average consumer fannying about with half hour charges. Nicking some free electricity while you're busing filling Waitrose bags with Lidl products is a near certainty but society is in too much of a rush to get back to daytime TV to sit down for half an hour waiting while trying to get a 4G connection to play bingo on their phone.

There is a little bit of utopian thinking with EVs that sees British society being changed and people sitting, relaxing for half an hour while their £100k EV recharges. It tends to remind me of the vision of civilised European cafe culture that would appear through allowing late licensing but what we got instead was oiks vomiting, pissing and fighting not just at 11pm but also at 12pm, 1am, 2am, 3am, 4am, 5am etc.

I do think that as EV usage expands people will be buying the cheapest car that they can charge up the quickest and cheapest way and that suggests accepting much lower ranges and grabbing free electricity where they can without changing their lifestyle and that everyone else will opt for hybrid.

[kambites]

If more than about 10% of charging is done using public charging stations mid-journey, the whole EV experiment is doomed to fail, IMO. The system only works if people can charge while their car was going to be parked anyway.

I think we'll see ~75% of charging done over-night (either using private supplies on drives and in garages, or using street-side charging points on residential streets); a further ~20% done at work; and maybe 5% done "on the go" using fast chargers. For people who actually do long trips as a matter of course, I don't think EVs will be the right solution in the next twenty years if they ever are at all... but it's such a small proportion of society that I don't think it matters. Once EVs hit the 80-90% adoption sort of rate, no-one will give a damn what the last 10-20% of vehicles are.

[DonkeyApple]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

I dare say the pro EV crowd will label me an infidel

Why is there a desperate need for some people on this thread to try and make out that they are being persecuted by everyone else?

There isn't any evidence to support this and it just seems that there is a certain group that distinctly imagines that society is oppressing them in some theatrical way?

It's a bizarrely common reciting theme.

[RobDickinson]

Generally there is an anti ev crowd who want them to fail because they are afraid, throw up all sorts of silly reasons why they cant work, even when they plainly do.

The bigger threat to you driving your noisy v8 weekend toy is self driving tech, not ev.

[TooLateForAName]

DonkeyApple said:

Rat_Fink_67 said:

I dare say the pro EV crowd will label me an infidel

Why is there a desperate need for some people on this thread to try and make out that they are being persecuted by everyone else?

There isn't any evidence to support this and it just seems that there is a certain group that distinctly imagines that society is oppressing them in some theatrical way?

It's a bizarrely common reciting theme.

Its the thing at the moment. See alt-right, fundy religions, etc. All playing the same record about how they are persecuted and oppressed while behaving like dicks.


I just don't get the hate for EVs. And the one thing I really don't get is the constant reference to the noise of ICE. People keep going on about the wonderful sound of their exhausts, but all I get is the yoofs with stupid exhausts on the little hatchbacks and their big brothers with stupid noisy exhausts on their 'performance' cars. I've always regarded the handling/braking as the key thing on a car why do you want to inflict anti-social noise on everyone in the area? Isn't rap at full volume enough?

[PixelpeepS3]

Max_Torque said:

i think we need some sort of standardised scoring system for "i've heard EVs are actually the devil" type posts?

How about:

The batteries are really polluting = 100 points
There's nowhere to charge them = 50 points
The National Grid can't cope = 300 points
They aren't any Greener because the grid only burns coal = 500 points
EVs are only built by children = 50 points


Pretty much the full 1000 pointer, so well done UncleMick (suspicious first post from a new acc. too...... ;-)

[NerveAgent]

Its very weird how people seem to have to fall in to the extreme pro/anti EV camps. I guess its human nature, especially with tech/change. Tribe A vs tribe B.

Personally I quite like EV cars, I think it will be great to have quieter, cleaner vehicles on the street, it will make our towns and cities (in fact everywhere) much more pleasant. I'm not sure why this point isn't mentioned more often.

I love ICE sports car, I love a great exhaust note. I don't think these will be going anywhere very quickly. I guess if EV does become the norm and EV cars are outperforming ICE cars, then future generations will be less excited about this. So what?

[Rat_Fink_67]

DonkeyApple said:

Why is there a desperate need for some people on this thread to try and make out that they are being persecuted by everyone else?

There isn't any evidence to support this and it just seems that there is a certain group that distinctly imagines that society is oppressing them in some theatrical way?

It's a bizarrely common reciting theme.

Yet in posts related to my comments since I've been likened to a luddite, a dick and a "hater". Because I said I don't like EVs that automatically means I hate them and anyone who drives one? My post was to explain why in my opinion that I don't like electric vehicles. I don't "hate" them, nor to I care who else drives one; what car someone else has sat on their driveway has zero effect on my life, and why would it?

I'm saying that my personal preference is to stick with petrol powered internal combustion engines. If anyone else prefers no exhaust note or slightly weird looking cars then their bag, but it's not mine.

So what part of that makes me a part of the "tribal anti EV brigade" or whatever it was labelled?!

[DonkeyApple]

NerveAgent said:

Its very weird how people seem to have to fall in to the extreme pro/anti EV camps. I guess its human nature, especially with tech/change. Tribe A vs tribe B.

Personally I quite like EV cars, I think it will be great to have quieter, cleaner vehicles on the street, it will make our towns and cities (in fact everywhere) much more pleasant. I'm not sure why this point isn't mentioned more often.

I love ICE sports car, I love a great exhaust note. I don't think these will be going anywhere very quickly. I guess if EV does become the norm and EV cars are outperforming ICE cars, then future generations will be less excited about this. So what?

Like most subjects, the majority sit around the middle discussing the more valid points for and against while the two sides of the extremist tard coin duke it out with ever more insane and base diatribes. But the core problem is that both sides naturally assume that anyone not agreeing entirely with them must be the opposition.

Political deviants, like sexual ones have always existed it's just that no one paid any attention to them and they had no platform where their extreme views could be aired to the masses. I think that's all that's really changed.

And beyond that, a very large number of Brits will proffer extremist sound bites but in reality don't mean what they are saying at all but have a much more complex, softer and more logical view and seemingly a difficulty in putting that across.

The core issue with EVs is that it is very much a political issue. The product is being forced upon the people by the 'State' and many people will reject that on principle but certainly everyone should be questioning every aspect of it and accepting nothing at face value.

I think Kambites shares the same general view as me that the sooner EVs become genuinely economically superior to the bulk of ICE cars then the sooner the political weight abates and a more natural and healthy market will preside.

[kambites]

NerveAgent said:

Its very weird how people seem to have to fall in to the extreme pro/anti EV camps. I guess its human nature, especially with tech/change. Tribe A vs tribe B.

I don't think we have a significant number of extremely pro-EV people on here (although they certainly do exist elsewhere). The most pro-EV posts are basically saying they're either suitable for or will become suitable for the huge majority of drivers and once they become cheap enough, will start to take over most of the market. I haven't seen anyone saying everyone must scrap their ICE powered cars and switch to EV immediately.

From what I've seen, the majority of "pro-EV" PHers intend to keep an ICE powered car.

[Limpet]

kambites said:

The primary reason I want the EV switch to happen as fast as possible is that I think it'll minimise the chances of ICE power cars being either legislated or taxed off the roads. I want ICEs to become politically (and environmentally) insignificant as soon as possible so I can keep driving mine.

I also want an EV for a family car. Liking the two types of drivetrain is not mutually exclusive.

Completely agree.

I'd happily drive an EV for business and for running the family about. All I want in those situations is comfort, low NVH and ease of operation. But nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than working a decent IC engine hard, and exercising it through its rev range. For fun, I would always need one in my life.

If there's an affordable EV with decent performance and range on the market when we next look to replace the cars in a few years, I will probably buy one.

[covmutley]

kambites said:

From what I've seen, the majority of "pro-EV" PHers intend to keep an ICE powered car.

Yep. My i3 does an excellent job on my commute. Our XC60 is a great family vehicle.

Oh, and the volvo is the D5, because 5 cylinders is better than 4, obviously.

[Gad-Westy]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

I dare say the pro EV crowd will label me an infidel, but I just can't get enthusiastic about them. In the same way I never have about diesels. Yeah they're economical, refined, have clever tech etc etc, but they just don't appeal. For those who use cars as a tool then yeah I fully understand your choices, and I'd never mock or disrespect anyone based on their choice of vehicular motivation. But from a purely personal standpoint I'm sad that the focus would appear to be on silent, electric powered transport. Think of iconic cars over the years; Model T, Rolls Silver Ghost, Blower Bentley, E Type, DB5, Countach, 959, F40, XJ220, McLaren F1 etc, or even more mainstream stuff like the E30 M3, Delta Integrale, Sierra Cosworth, Impreza Turbo...would they still have been as iconic without their heartbeats?? I doubt it. Yes things move on, you can't put the genie back in the bottle so to speak, but I'll be hanging on to petrol power for as long as possible.

I don't imagine many people are going to argue with this on an emotional level. I love petrol engines, will miss them if I cannot have one anymore but I think EV's make or will make for far better modes of transport. It's interesting that - other than the Impreza- the iconic cars you list are all over 25 years old . It's what makes me less bothered about the switch from modern ICE's to EV's. There aren't that many interesting ICE's being churned out any more anyway. I'm not going to be crying into my corn flakes if I can no longer have a 1.0 3 cylinder Turbo in my VAG saloon. Most modern engines are utterly characterless anyway. Even the more interesting engines are less interesting than they have been historically. Look at BMW's m cars. They have made some absolute peaches in the past, now it's just generic, quiet turbo stuff the same as everyone else. Big power yes, but EV's can do that trick. Even ferrari are at it. These are doubtless all great engines in isolation but the decline started years ago so a switch to silent power is an easier pill to swallow than it may have been 20-30 years ago.