Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.
Discussion
James_B said:
The fact that I can't yet do the 300 mile trip home in a single hit was the final reason. Nearly, on the last one, but not quite yet.
A guy in Italy just drove 669 miles on a single charge in his Tesla 100D.Optimum conditions and speeds no doubt, but it shows what's possible and 300 miles certainly is.
For me one would work very well, very rare I do more than 100 miles in a day, usually much less or zero.
With each iteration, each new model the range and charge time will improve, the prices will drop like all new tech does, every car maker is now rushing to develop EV's, I expect that the Chinese will be trying to flog them here soon as well.
More and more people are cottoning on now, if they dont currently work for you now, that is fine, they arent for everyone, well not yet, and some would never want one.
It is easy to avoid currently, ten years hence the landscape will be a lot different and they will be a lot more compelling for a lot more people, potentially for the following reasons,
EV Infrastructure will have improved
Fossil fuel architecture will start to dwindle if its no longer viable financially to keep sites open
Charge times will have improved
Battery life will have improved
Manufacturers will have started dropping IC engined cars in certain segments
IC engined cars will be legislated against, like diesel bans in town centres etc
There will be more choice of new and used EV's, most ranges will have an EV option
The EV price premium will drop
Residuals on IC cars will drop (remember trying to flog big engined petrols in 2008 ?)
There will be a lot more awareness by the general public
There could possibly a social stigma for IC cars, for certain demographics anyway
With each iteration, each new model the range and charge time will improve, the prices will drop like all new tech does, every car maker is now rushing to develop EV's, I expect that the Chinese will be trying to flog them here soon as well.
More and more people are cottoning on now, if they dont currently work for you now, that is fine, they arent for everyone, well not yet, and some would never want one.
It is easy to avoid currently, ten years hence the landscape will be a lot different and they will be a lot more compelling for a lot more people, potentially for the following reasons,
EV Infrastructure will have improved
Fossil fuel architecture will start to dwindle if its no longer viable financially to keep sites open
Charge times will have improved
Battery life will have improved
Manufacturers will have started dropping IC engined cars in certain segments
IC engined cars will be legislated against, like diesel bans in town centres etc
There will be more choice of new and used EV's, most ranges will have an EV option
The EV price premium will drop
Residuals on IC cars will drop (remember trying to flog big engined petrols in 2008 ?)
There will be a lot more awareness by the general public
There could possibly a social stigma for IC cars, for certain demographics anyway
Ppl will head more into hybrids or electric when you get great range in a great car for not much money! Imagine been able to buy the tesla model s for say 35-40k
If BMW merc or Audi manage to match tesla for cheap money I can't see tesla surviving long term as I don't think their cars are good looking (apart from the model s) and they're very expensive for what they are!
Then how long will it be till the tech is used in commercial vehicles and vans
Then will you be able to charge them for free OR once everyone has moved to electric and the government aren't making money will they create charges and a new tax to rape the population of money as I can't see it been free forever
If BMW merc or Audi manage to match tesla for cheap money I can't see tesla surviving long term as I don't think their cars are good looking (apart from the model s) and they're very expensive for what they are!
Then how long will it be till the tech is used in commercial vehicles and vans
Then will you be able to charge them for free OR once everyone has moved to electric and the government aren't making money will they create charges and a new tax to rape the population of money as I can't see it been free forever
I think they are a decent technology. For me 2 things make it not useful for me. I want at least 400 miles of normal driving between charges and the price of the tesla like car needs to be more in line with a 5 series or an e class.
At moment I deve a car with a lot t less range than that but filling it up is a simple 5 min affair. I want the flexibility if going EV to not have to stop for 30mn or worse not having a free charging point at the services and have to wait for one to free up!
The cleaner/green credentials don't sell it to me pollution will still exist to produce the car, electricity and batteries sure cleaner air and end of use location but hardly the green energy EV fans like to tell you about.
The other is the lack of exhaust sound. I like a decent exhaust sound. Other is the economy factor.... never understood this or the cheaper tax... sure if you talk about a Leaf or i3 it is perhaps a saving but I am talking model S kind of car. If someone buys a car for 70k I can't understand why they are so worried about a little saving in tax comparatively speaking or even the cost of fuel. I just don't understand... want to save surely you can buy a farm any thousands cheaper and there is your saving. Anyway good tech but not yet for me.
At moment I deve a car with a lot t less range than that but filling it up is a simple 5 min affair. I want the flexibility if going EV to not have to stop for 30mn or worse not having a free charging point at the services and have to wait for one to free up!
The cleaner/green credentials don't sell it to me pollution will still exist to produce the car, electricity and batteries sure cleaner air and end of use location but hardly the green energy EV fans like to tell you about.
The other is the lack of exhaust sound. I like a decent exhaust sound. Other is the economy factor.... never understood this or the cheaper tax... sure if you talk about a Leaf or i3 it is perhaps a saving but I am talking model S kind of car. If someone buys a car for 70k I can't understand why they are so worried about a little saving in tax comparatively speaking or even the cost of fuel. I just don't understand... want to save surely you can buy a farm any thousands cheaper and there is your saving. Anyway good tech but not yet for me.
patmahe said:
I seriously considered a leaf the last time we changed cars but I simply couldn't make the sums add up because of the purchase price (we just needed a runabout) but range etc... would have been fine. If there is a good electric option next time around I'll consider it then too, no reason not to yet.
£184pcm, With £500 down. 8k miles pa. Cheap motoring.
VonSenger said:
We're on our second leaf and 3 years of ownership. Absolutely perfect......... For our use, school, supermarket and grandparents trip across town. Anything else? Forget it. Too much hassle. I did a 100 mile round trip in it twice. It was a proper faff.
Also, be wary of the stated mileage,
Where can one find the mileage to be expected fom one charge for the different makes and model of electric car?Also, be wary of the stated mileage,
I've driven a few electric cars at work. From memory a couple of Leafs, i3s (the only one I disliked), Nissan vans, a Renault Zoe, an electric VW Up and some weird little Mitsubishi.
From my experience the positives are they are smooth, very quick off the line (even the cheapo ones) and very cheap to run.
The negatives seem to be that they are expensive to buy, have a limited range, long recharging time, very slow and juicy once you get past 60mph, and you need access to a charging point.
I can see the appeal for them as a second car for those on decent money who live/work in a built-up area. However there's no way I'd consider buying one.
From my experience the positives are they are smooth, very quick off the line (even the cheapo ones) and very cheap to run.
The negatives seem to be that they are expensive to buy, have a limited range, long recharging time, very slow and juicy once you get past 60mph, and you need access to a charging point.
I can see the appeal for them as a second car for those on decent money who live/work in a built-up area. However there's no way I'd consider buying one.
I fully accept that EVs are the future. Mrs V. drops the kids off in the mornings at school, drives to her school a mile from home, picks them up, takes them to gym - a max of 4 miles from home in traffic.That's in a Mitsubishi i-Car. We're seriously thinking about a i-Miev as its replacement. I browse the EV sub-forum on here and other EV forums and the biggest problem is actual range over quoted range. At the moment everyone seems to quote manufacturers data which is often wildly different in real life.
With current and maybe tech in the next decade, there is a sad point to make: all those wonderful megamiles road trips to far flung parts of Europe are going to be a thing of the past.
With current and maybe tech in the next decade, there is a sad point to make: all those wonderful megamiles road trips to far flung parts of Europe are going to be a thing of the past.
lee_fr200 said:
Ppl will head more into hybrids or electric when you get great range in a great car for not much money! Imagine been able to buy the tesla model s for say 35-40k
If BMW merc or Audi manage to match tesla for cheap money I can't see tesla surviving long term as I don't think their cars are good looking (apart from the model s) and they're very expensive for what they are!
Then how long will it be till the tech is used in commercial vehicles and vans
Then will you be able to charge them for free OR once everyone has moved to electric and the government aren't making money will they create charges and a new tax to rape the population of money as I can't see it been free forever
Rape the population ?If BMW merc or Audi manage to match tesla for cheap money I can't see tesla surviving long term as I don't think their cars are good looking (apart from the model s) and they're very expensive for what they are!
Then how long will it be till the tech is used in commercial vehicles and vans
Then will you be able to charge them for free OR once everyone has moved to electric and the government aren't making money will they create charges and a new tax to rape the population of money as I can't see it been free forever
You can run a car for very little, I have four on the drive, the cheapest, a C1 costs £1.75 in VED a month and a tenner or so in insurance, it does 45 - 55 to the gallon, it costs very, very little and is affordable to a huge section of the community.
My other one is £300 a year to insure, and £45 a month in VED, it does 18 mpg, I dont have to drive a top rate VED car, it is a choice.
Lots of work on the roads locally, i know VED doesnt go on roads but it all goes in the pot, a pot that needs filling to provide for defence, health, education, infrastructure etc etc.
Do you expect everything to be free ?
The government will have to tax EV usage eventually to make up the shortfall in revenue from VED as all are free and they are much more efficient so much less energy is used and currently the VAT is 5% for domestic electricity, compared with 60 % in fuel duty and VAT on fossil fuels.
Not sure how they will do it as its pretty difficult on a home charger to determine what is using the energy, so if they put up VAT on electricity it puts bills up across the board for showers, boiling kettles and other essentials, as take up of EV's becomes more prevalent, then they will obviously have to do something, I cant imagine that there isnt a group working on how to do it right now.
I think everyone should pay to drive on the roads, if you dont want to pay, you can walk or cycle.
As for commercial vehicles, that will come, for town bound vans it would work but not yet for long distances.
Not sure but there must somewhere on google.
The ev advertised mileage is a scam. Conditions must be perfect and you need to annoy everyone by tickling the throttle.
Also motorways demolish range. Anything over 55mph eats into battery life like nothing else.
If you have a drive and somewhere to charge it before return trips, you can comfortably do 160miles a day. If it doesn't involve motorways.
The ev advertised mileage is a scam. Conditions must be perfect and you need to annoy everyone by tickling the throttle.
Also motorways demolish range. Anything over 55mph eats into battery life like nothing else.
If you have a drive and somewhere to charge it before return trips, you can comfortably do 160miles a day. If it doesn't involve motorways.
lee_fr200 said:
Ppl will head more into hybrids or electric when you get great range in a great car for not much money! Imagine been able to buy the tesla model s for say 35-40k
35-40k, not much money? Have a day off. There are about 6 people in the company I work for who will ever buy a 40k car and they are owners/directors.Meanwhile back in the real world, when regular Joe's can get into a 5 year old one for £5k, and charge points are built into kerbstones, they will start to become a real alternative to the masses.
vikingaero said:
I fully accept that EVs are the future. Mrs V. drops the kids off in the mornings at school, drives to her school a mile from home, picks them up, takes them to gym - a max of 4 miles from home in traffic.That's in a Mitsubishi i-Car. We're seriously thinking about a i-Miev as its replacement. I browse the EV sub-forum on here and other EV forums and the biggest problem is actual range over quoted range. At the moment everyone seems to quote manufacturers data which is often wildly different in real life.
With current and maybe tech in the next decade, there is a sad point to make: all those wonderful megamiles road trips to far flung parts of Europe are going to be a thing of the past.
I was in Italy for the last few weeks and saw loads of Teslas. Lots from Norway or Sweden. Don't think the long driving holidays are over just yet.With current and maybe tech in the next decade, there is a sad point to make: all those wonderful megamiles road trips to far flung parts of Europe are going to be a thing of the past.
Biggest problem I see is w
kers parking non Electric cars in charging bays. Clamping and tow aways needs to be bought back for this. 0ddball said:
lee_fr200 said:
Ppl will head more into hybrids or electric when you get great range in a great car for not much money! Imagine been able to buy the tesla model s for say 35-40k
35-40k, not much money? Have a day off. There are about 6 people in the company I work for who will ever buy a 40k car and they are owners/directors.Meanwhile back in the real world, when regular Joe's can get into a 5 year old one for £5k, and charge points are built into kerbstones, they will start to become a real alternative to the masses.
All those Evoques out there are 35k plus, and there is no shortage of them on the roads, so someone is "buying" them, £450 a month or so I guess based on a quick google, plus fuel, VED and insurance, insurance will stay the same I expect, at the moment no VED vs £150 to £300 a year and the fuel costs would be a lot less, say you do 12k a year (30 to 40 miles a day, perfectly doable in an EV, you would spend, in a diesel model, £150 a month, vs £50 for an EV to do the same distance, possibly less, so potentially a £100 saving.
So, if you add it up, not even applying man maths, it makes sense, if you can live with the compromises you have to make.
The government want us in EV's, for various reasons, but they will have to keep the costs comparable, preferably lower to encourage uptake, will be a long time until they can turn the screw much on the cost.
Will take a while for EV's in numbers to filter down in the used market, but you can get a SH Leaf now for five to ten grand, they are good, they just however dont look very funky, basically a fat Micra, the Zoe aint much better and that is a big part of the purchasing decision, Teslas are not beautiful, but they are impressive and fairly conventional, the aforementioned Evoque would sell as an EV, as people want Evoques and then decide on powetrain choice based on usage, but they dont do one, yet.
gtidriver said:
vikingaero said:
I fully accept that EVs are the future. Mrs V. drops the kids off in the mornings at school, drives to her school a mile from home, picks them up, takes them to gym - a max of 4 miles from home in traffic.That's in a Mitsubishi i-Car. We're seriously thinking about a i-Miev as its replacement. I browse the EV sub-forum on here and other EV forums and the biggest problem is actual range over quoted range. At the moment everyone seems to quote manufacturers data which is often wildly different in real life.
With current and maybe tech in the next decade, there is a sad point to make: all those wonderful megamiles road trips to far flung parts of Europe are going to be a thing of the past.
I was in Italy for the last few weeks and saw loads of Teslas. Lots from Norway or Sweden. Don't think the long driving holidays are over just yet.With current and maybe tech in the next decade, there is a sad point to make: all those wonderful megamiles road trips to far flung parts of Europe are going to be a thing of the past.
Biggest problem I see is w
kers parking non Electric cars in charging bays. Clamping and tow aways needs to be bought back for this. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff