Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.
Discussion
SimonYorkshire said:
Efbe said:
Simon
What are your goals on this thread?
Are you trying to:
1) put people off EVs
2) predict a dismal failure of EVs
3) Sell LPG
4) Other
4. My posts are completely within context of the title of the thread 'Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing'. If this were a thread titled 'Do EVers like the Tesla or the Leaf best' I would't be participating. I'm certainly not here for your point 3, when I mention LPG it is usually with some aspect of comparing what I know general public's thoughts and concerns are when it comes to using other than petrol or diesel. What are your goals on this thread?
Are you trying to:
1) put people off EVs
2) predict a dismal failure of EVs
3) Sell LPG
4) Other
What are your goals on this thread? Do you 1 want to turn people onto EVs? 2 Do you predict a massive success story for EVs? Why would you concern yourself with what others think or talking about it?
I am not asking this to be awkward or antagonistic.
pherlopolus said:
I carefully made sure they were the same quarter...
But you originally said"Coal is virtually non Existent now (2% of total)"
without mentioning that was a quarterly figure.
As we use electricity all year round I think annual is more appropriate. Especially as peak winter demand is when the grid stands or falls.
irc said:
But you originally said
"Coal is virtually non Existent now (2% of total)"
without mentioning that was a quarterly figure.
As we use electricity all year round I think annual is more appropriate. Especially as peak winter demand is when the grid stands or falls.
Coal % over the past year is just under 7% of total energy production in the UK."Coal is virtually non Existent now (2% of total)"
without mentioning that was a quarterly figure.
As we use electricity all year round I think annual is more appropriate. Especially as peak winter demand is when the grid stands or falls.
Source http://nationalgrid.stephenmorley.org/
Look at the average pie chart section and hover to see the facts.
The guy is clearly an amateur as he hasn't shown LPG as far as I can see.
JD said:
Worth pointing out that the high coal usage at the moment is because we are selling a load of juice to France as their Nuclear generation is reduced currently.
At this moment we're buying over 4% of the UKs electric from France, buying 1.8% from the Dutch and coal is providing 17.7% of UK's electric. I have seen the figure for coal higher recently and believe at that time we were selling electricity to France. pherlopolus said:
irc said:
That's one quarter. I'm sure the annual percentage will be over 2% it will be higher with winter generation. Though point conceded that it is declining fast.
I carefully made sure they were the same quarter... Efbe said:
On some threads I contribute things I don't think other people will know, on some I try to change opinions, on some I just want banter, but on this thread I am here to learn.
I am not asking this to be awkward or antagonistic.
No problem with that, sorry if I took your post the wrong way. Yes some of my reasons for being here include all those you mentioned. I do think there's an aspect of EVers thinking they're helping solve some immediate problem while not fully recognising future problems that EVs will bring about (which may lead to EVs having to be a niche segment for a long time) and not recognising how perhaps different future technologies such as invention of nuclear fusion could even mean EVs do more to slow a change to 'green' rather than speed it up. I.e. If in 15 years nuclear fusion power stations are being built, home heating could very quickly be switched to running on electricity produced from fusion power therefore very quickly getting rid of 50% of fossil fuel usage (if 50% of fossil fuels are used for heating), but not if this was hampered because domestic supply that could just about cope with home heating was at that point needed to keep the UK's vehicle fleet moving because most people had switched to EVs. Green arguments aside, I believe most buyers will have arrived at an EV because of the cheap running cost, but again this is something that can only work while EVs are a niche, they become mainstream and their use will have to be taxed just as heavily as ice vehicles or where does revenue that government needs which currently comes from road fuel duty come from? In my business (LPG conversion of vehicles) I and my customers also enjoy road fuel duty concessions (for 'green' reasons) but we realise that LPG will remain a niche and are pleased that it will, because we know what would happen if it became mainstream. Some EVers talk about EVs being the mainstream vehicle of the future, seem to imagine charge time and range just as good or better than ice refuel time and range, seem to think they will only cost the same to run in a future where they are mainstream as they cost to run now. I am not asking this to be awkward or antagonistic.
EVLATECOMER said:
Coal % over the past year is just under 7% of total energy production in the UK.
Source http://nationalgrid.stephenmorley.org/
Look at the average pie chart section and hover to see the facts.
The guy is clearly an amateur as he hasn't shown LPG as far as I can see.
Yeh clearly an amateur lol ;-) Seriously though of course LPG petrol and diesel aren't mentioned. CNG is mentioned by implication because it's what's fuelling all the gas power stations.Source http://nationalgrid.stephenmorley.org/
Look at the average pie chart section and hover to see the facts.
The guy is clearly an amateur as he hasn't shown LPG as far as I can see.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 25th November 18:15
Max_Torque said:
The point however is "who cares"
All that matter is that our grid is greening, and it's doing it at a massive rate.
Your conventional car, powered by it's ICE, is no greener tomorrow than it is today, yet my EV gets greener ever single day!
There could be an equally valid equally opposite argument.All that matter is that our grid is greening, and it's doing it at a massive rate.
Your conventional car, powered by it's ICE, is no greener tomorrow than it is today, yet my EV gets greener ever single day!
Ices are getting greener even if they run on petrol.
Electrical generation has got greener recently mostly due to a shift from coal to CNG. A vehicle powered by CNG is greener than one powered by petrol.
Electrical generation has also got greener due to nuclear fission stations, or are nuclear fission stations really green? We may get very different answers from people who live near Chernoby or nuke plants in Japan than from people near other nuke plants. In a few hundred years people may curse the engineers of today who left them a legacy of nuke waste to deal with.
We can talk about wind farms and solar power but I think terming them 'renewable energy' is a bit far fetched... To me 'renewable' is a term like 'recondition-able', we can control when we recondition things but we cannot control the weather and we cannot rely on wind or solar power... Even if wind and solar could produce all our energy we would still need almost as many power stations (nuke and fossil fuelled) as we have now. If this doesn't show battery storage in a good light it's because batteries really can't cut it, they can't allow an EV the same range and charge time as a fossil fuelled vehicle and they can't store anything like what they'd have to store to provide enough grid storage for us to rely on 'renewable' energy. Not sure where we'd build maybe 20odd times as many wind farms as we currently have either... Would imagine a day when all the high points etc already had wind farms, the windy coast was covered, we're not going to build wind farms in many valleys, solar won't do much in winter.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 25th November 18:35
SimonYorkshire said:
JD said:
Worth pointing out that the high coal usage at the moment is because we are selling a load of juice to France as their Nuclear generation is reduced currently.
At this moment we're buying over 4% of the UKs electric from France, buying 1.8% from the Dutch and coal is providing 17.7% of UK's electric. I have seen the figure for coal higher recently and believe at that time we were selling electricity to France. amgmcqueen said:
RobDickinson said:
oh look another uninformed idiot.
Is this the level of debate I can expect from this thread?When car batteries can be charged in 5mins or less and every petrol station in the land has charge points then they will have cracked it.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/New-Bat...
SimonYorkshire said:
rscott said:
I think we all realise you don't get the specific units of energy generated by renewable sources, however choosing a supplier like bulb or Ecotricity means the input to the grid is from renewable/green gas sources.
Again - Choosing a supplier like Bulb or Ecotricity means you get power from the exact same source (the grid) as next door. If the firm's claim of 'ensuring the same amount of electricity that we sell to customers is also generated by renewable sources' is correct, it only has to mean that the firm supplies less total electricity than total electricity generated by renewable sources, i.e. the company must only supply small amounts of electricity, less than is generated by renewable sources. .Ah well, that's life. Just need to fix our Main boiler feed pump this week. Anyone got a few quid
RobDickinson said:
Welcome troll_2918 please include the following on your first post:
(1) long recharge times
(2) no one has drive ways or garages
(3) everyone drives a minimum of 600 miles per day
(4) they catch fire twice daily
(5) LPG is so much betterer
(6) lithium is too rare to waste protecting the environment
(7) I like breathing nox
Ah you have a MX-5. Explains it all.(1) long recharge times
(2) no one has drive ways or garages
(3) everyone drives a minimum of 600 miles per day
(4) they catch fire twice daily
(5) LPG is so much betterer
(6) lithium is too rare to waste protecting the environment
(7) I like breathing nox
Gary C said:
Well you could argue that a modern ice is greener than a 70's v8 vantage, so it's not totally wrong.
He’s was referring to owning a car and running a car over 3 years. Not buying new ones....An ICE with its fixed hardware stays the same and if anything degrades, whereas an EV uses the grid which is getting greener.
JonnyVTEC said:
Gary C said:
Well you could argue that a modern ice is greener than a 70's v8 vantage, so it's not totally wrong.
He’s was referring to owning a car and running a car over 3 years. Not buying new ones....An ICE with its fixed hardware stays the same and if anything degrades, whereas an EV uses the grid which is getting greener.
Bio fuel anyone
A turbine smooth engine producing more power than a P51 Mustang and boasting true ‘Berlin & back’ range. Autopilot when you fancy watching a film and accident avoidance when you’re having fun. Compact, agile, 50-50 weight, individually powered all wheel drive, and with space in the back for the kids because there isn’t a V8 using it all up. As cheap to buy as a Ford Mondeo, and a lot cheaper to run. What’s not to like about EVs of the coming decade?
The decade after of course, they’ll be fully autonomous and excitement limited by the nanny state.
Speaking as someone who’s had a life long love of sports cars, and was more than a little miffed when the oil price collapsed as it paid my wages, I ought to hate EVs. However, not being a dinosaur and having that uncanny ability to see the absolute bleedin obvious when it’s right in front of you, I think EVs might just be the last nirvana of the true pistonhead.
References:
hvdc interconnectors are re-wiring the grid and turning variable renewable energy to base load and why all those comments about no where to charge etc are really silly – see my posts many pages back
Battery technology from the likes of Fisker (and many others) – a page ago
The fall in lithium Ion battery cost per kWh against year, and of course the cost disruption likely from any one of the competing technologies
A colleagues Tesla 100D, which can obliterate my neighbours 488 (admittedly in a straight line only, but tesla are american)
Tesla roadster with 0-60 in 1.9 seconds and a 600+ mile range
Electric motors in general, which produce far less heat than ice’s, are far simpler, need next to no maintenance, don’t have to wait for fuel to be pumped into the cylinders, and are a lot cheaper to make with phenomenal power outputs
Right now I drive ICE. In 5 years I can pretty much guarantee I'll be driving an EV.
The decade after of course, they’ll be fully autonomous and excitement limited by the nanny state.
Speaking as someone who’s had a life long love of sports cars, and was more than a little miffed when the oil price collapsed as it paid my wages, I ought to hate EVs. However, not being a dinosaur and having that uncanny ability to see the absolute bleedin obvious when it’s right in front of you, I think EVs might just be the last nirvana of the true pistonhead.
References:
hvdc interconnectors are re-wiring the grid and turning variable renewable energy to base load and why all those comments about no where to charge etc are really silly – see my posts many pages back
Battery technology from the likes of Fisker (and many others) – a page ago
The fall in lithium Ion battery cost per kWh against year, and of course the cost disruption likely from any one of the competing technologies
A colleagues Tesla 100D, which can obliterate my neighbours 488 (admittedly in a straight line only, but tesla are american)
Tesla roadster with 0-60 in 1.9 seconds and a 600+ mile range
Electric motors in general, which produce far less heat than ice’s, are far simpler, need next to no maintenance, don’t have to wait for fuel to be pumped into the cylinders, and are a lot cheaper to make with phenomenal power outputs
Right now I drive ICE. In 5 years I can pretty much guarantee I'll be driving an EV.
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