Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.

[Toltec]

Pooh said:

Toltec said:

Pooh said:

I have done almost 3000miles in the 5 weeks I have had the car, I am getting around 120 - 130 miles range which I think is pretty good considering how cold and snowy it has been up here.
I have had no problems with it, I am enjoying driving it, particularly around town and it has been remarkably good in the snow, very precise throttle control with no surges caused by gear changes is great for traction if you drive carefully.
I do not have the home charger fitted yet so all my charging has been at public chargers with the nearest being 20 miles from my house, this has not been a huge problem but I have had to stop a few times and go for a meal in the evening while the car charges up.
Fuel cost so far is 1 month of the £20.00 annual fee I have to pay for the ChargePlace Scotland card so around £1.60 which is not bad for almost 3000 miles of driving.

How much extra has eating out cost you though?

Less than £100.00 and that will no longer be an issue once the home charger is installed. I reckon that it would have cost around £450.00 in fuel to do the same mileage in my old car so I am still winning even after paying the monthly lease costs for the Zoe, especially once you include servicing and depreciation for the old car.

Sounds like a bit of adaptation has made an EV work well for you then, good to hear a real world example.

[Toltec]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

[anonymous-user]

Dark85 said:

Garybee said:

For me to want to buy an EV it would have to cost a lot less to own than an ICE car to justify the downsides of owning one.

For my daily commute (30 mile round trip) an EV would be perfect. I have a fun car (Caterham) in the garage and a motorbike for when I fancy that so I don't mind giving up driver enjoyment (daily is a 3L BMW Z4). I can cope with the fact that an EV wouldn't tow (Caterham) so long as my partner keeps a proper car as we use that at the moment.

The problem comes when something slightly different to the normal daily commute is required. I might need to go on a course/job with work at no/very little notice the other end of the country. Now I'm going to be searching for charging points on the internet when I should be chucking my bags in the car and setting off. Or I might get home and immediately get a call from work that I need to go back in. If this happens in the winter in my Nissan Leaf I'd be stuffed. I could list loads of scenarios but they're all effectively the same thing. An EV would allow me to get there but it could potentially make me very late and would give me extra problems to overcome.

A friend of ours recently had a Leaf (on a 2 year lease) and hated it from about a week after delivery. It sounded like an endless faff of subscriptions to charging schemes and actual charging points being broken, refusing to work with that model or just being behind locked gates.

My current car costs me so little to run that any cost savings are effectively moot. I choose ICE mostly because EVs add extra problems. I know that you can usually work round them but why would I want to risk it? It's a shame because as I said, for my average commute an EV would be perfect.

Being called straight back in after driving home? Last minute courses at the other end of the country and they don't provide you with a car or other means for you to get there? If these things were even vaguely regular I'd be looking for a new job.

Given the traffic situation in the UK, the "Uncertainty time window" to be "at the other end of the country" is typically +- 3 hours at best. Plenty of time to either get a hire car delivered to your house, or get a taxi to an airport! Unless you are a trained Police driver and have blue lights on your car, there is no way you are going to be quickly just driving to scotland!

Occasionally, people need to move something big, like say a sofa. Yet few people drive a transit van as a daily just in case? No they hire something. Today, thanks to the internet and smart phones, you can have a derv hire car on your door step within 30min of hitting the "enter" key! And the cost is minor and out weighed by the rest of year savings from driving your EV!

[rxe]

Dark85 said:

Being called straight back in after driving home? Last minute courses at the other end of the country and they don't provide you with a car or other means for you to get there? If these things were even vaguely regular I'd be looking for a new job.

If you have a simple life with a single commute, you can plan your cars very precisely. I don't generally get called onto a course at short notice, but my commute ranges from "work from home" to "long-haul BA" with everything in between. There is a sweet spot for a leaf or whatever, which is a nice commute, 30 each way, and then you'll get maximum advantage. If you stray wildly outside that, then it is either a PITA, or you're just looking at your depreciating asset not saving you very much money.

So, as everyone says, it depends. What I really don't get is that people (who are solvent enough to be buying new cars) are willing to put up with inconvenience for £50 a week or whatever. Yes, I could save £1500 a year on fuel, but the first time I encountered a busted charger with no option but to wait - it would not be worth it.

[Gary C]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

But not yet it doesn't !

NO EV gives me what I want from a car.!

Now I'm not saying they won't, but not now they don't, full stop, no argument possible !

Now what do I (and there is the pinch most ev adherents ignore, it's I, not you, I) want

Price. The only ev's that are interesting to me are too expensive
Performance. The only ev's that would give me the performance I want are too expensive
Economy. EV's would be much better in 90% of my driving, but not enough to sway my buying choice (yet)
Range. My petrol car can do a 10 mile trip as easy as a 3500 mile trip.

So a leaf would be an anathema to me, ugly, slow, low range but affordable
A tesla model S, is fast, good range, nice looking (but actually, still not really what I want) but too expensive.

but, maybe, one day.

[anonymous-user]

austinsmirk said:

apart from the fact you can't drive at 120mph, all day long, anywhere AND the thought of being a passenger in a tiny car like a 3 series and doing 500 miles wedged into it: pretty unrealistic really as a premise !

Good luck with an i3 if you think a 3 series is cramped! I know some people only drive 10 to 15 miles and that's great, good for them. Plenty of people drive into Europe, covering 500 miles isn't unrealistic, not for me on business. an EV just makes life harder with the current range and charging options. When I had the i3 it just made me worry about where the next charging point was all the time.

[PixelpeepS3]

i wonder if henry ford had these issues trying to convince everyone to 'pay for fuel' when their normal mode of transport needed nothing more than a slurp of rain water and some hay.

'but there are hardly any of these fancy gasoline stations.. what happens if i want to travel 6 towns over to pick up some moonshine?!'

I can't put any of the stuff in that model T i used to be able to get in my cart.

it'll never catch on.. its not for me.

[Byker28i]

MrOrange said:

lowdrag said:

I suggest you look at his photo of my car's dashboard after a day's run from Spain to France.

Literally, no-one ever does this. I suggest you might look at real-world statistics:

• The average journey in the UK is SEVEN miles
• 95% of all journeys were less than 25 miles
• 56% of car journeys were less than 5 miles
• The average miles driven per MONTH in the UK is less than 400

Using the yardstick of a "1,000 miles in one day" superbly illustrates confirmation bias, I would suggest.

Where did these figures come from. Thats not the RAC figures from 2016.
Page 19 - 40-49 miles
https://www.licencebureau.co.uk/wp-content/uploads...

[pherlopolus]

That exact file says 94% of journeys are under 25miles, and only 2% are above 50....

So that's actual journeys, not averages.

[Garybee]

Max_Torque said:

Dark85 said:

Garybee said:

For me to want to buy an EV it would have to cost a lot less to own than an ICE car to justify the downsides of owning one.

For my daily commute (30 mile round trip) an EV would be perfect. I have a fun car (Caterham) in the garage and a motorbike for when I fancy that so I don't mind giving up driver enjoyment (daily is a 3L BMW Z4). I can cope with the fact that an EV wouldn't tow (Caterham) so long as my partner keeps a proper car as we use that at the moment.

The problem comes when something slightly different to the normal daily commute is required. I might need to go on a course/job with work at no/very little notice the other end of the country. Now I'm going to be searching for charging points on the internet when I should be chucking my bags in the car and setting off. Or I might get home and immediately get a call from work that I need to go back in. If this happens in the winter in my Nissan Leaf I'd be stuffed. I could list loads of scenarios but they're all effectively the same thing. An EV would allow me to get there but it could potentially make me very late and would give me extra problems to overcome.

A friend of ours recently had a Leaf (on a 2 year lease) and hated it from about a week after delivery. It sounded like an endless faff of subscriptions to charging schemes and actual charging points being broken, refusing to work with that model or just being behind locked gates.

My current car costs me so little to run that any cost savings are effectively moot. I choose ICE mostly because EVs add extra problems. I know that you can usually work round them but why would I want to risk it? It's a shame because as I said, for my average commute an EV would be perfect.

Being called straight back in after driving home? Last minute courses at the other end of the country and they don't provide you with a car or other means for you to get there? If these things were even vaguely regular I'd be looking for a new job.

Given the traffic situation in the UK, the "Uncertainty time window" to be "at the other end of the country" is typically +- 3 hours at best. Plenty of time to either get a hire car delivered to your house, or get a taxi to an airport! Unless you are a trained Police driver and have blue lights on your car, there is no way you are going to be quickly just driving to scotland!

Occasionally, people need to move something big, like say a sofa. Yet few people drive a transit van as a daily just in case? No they hire something. Today, thanks to the internet and smart phones, you can have a derv hire car on your door step within 30min of hitting the "enter" key! And the cost is minor and out weighed by the rest of year savings from driving your EV!

Some of the claims made on here about the timescales of obtaining alternative transport are just silly. They also completely miss the point about the fact that you wouldn't have needed to be mucking about looking for the magical hire car firm that drops cars on your doorstep within 30 mins if you hadn't bought an EV.

Those who have EVs that serve their purposes come across as sensible, rational people. Those who claim they work for everyone and any issues are only ever minor inconveniences that are easily worked round lose all credibility. It's just weird.

[Gary C]

PixelpeepS3 said:

i wonder if henry ford had these issues trying to convince everyone to 'pay for fuel' when their normal mode of transport needed nothing more than a slurp of rain water and some hay.

'but there are hardly any of these fancy gasoline stations.. what happens if i want to travel 6 towns over to pick up some moonshine?!'

I can't put any of the stuff in that model T i used to be able to get in my cart.

it'll never catch on.. its not for me.

What a daft comparison.

So then, advanced human, what EV should I buy.

[lowdrag]

I have today done 90 miles return to my favourite restaurant. No I don't do it often, but my mileage is usually in winter about 800 miles per month where an EV would be perfect. But again, I do 20,000 miles a year, most of it between April and November. This autumn I will drive from France to Scotland in two days, I'll tour the Highlands, top down. In September I'll do Le Mans to Spa and back for the 6 hours classic which is 1,200 miles. I'll return to Le Mans and in two days. Here's a question; do the ferries have charging points? and then the 130 miles home. Will I find charging points in the Highlands? Will my car be able to go from Edinburgh to Winchester with no stops apart from a quick fill-up?

The future is electric, but here in France there are severe doubts. The holiday period is from the first Saturday in July to the last Saturday in August and all rentals are from 4pm Saturday. So, millions of people leave their home on Friday evening and take at least 12 hours (I've experienced it) to get to their destination. There are not enough charging points for all the cars at the service stations. There aren't enough places for any car even to park for goodness sake. I have in the holiday period had to pass three service stations with signs "parking full" before being able to park my car, let alone find a place to charge an EV.

[Garybee]

PixelpeepS3 said:

i wonder if henry ford had these issues trying to convince everyone to 'pay for fuel' when their normal mode of transport needed nothing more than a slurp of rain water and some hay.

'but there are hardly any of these fancy gasoline stations.. what happens if i want to travel 6 towns over to pick up some moonshine?!'

I can't put any of the stuff in that model T i used to be able to get in my cart.

it'll never catch on.. its not for me.

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

What has the 'fight or flight' response of being pumped full of adrenaline got to do with being conservative/not being an early adopter? Or are you saying that those with EVs are having a 'fight or flight' caveman-esque response to everyone else's conservative behaviour?

[Evanivitch]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If he can't better 2.5miles per kWh then he's either barn storming or he's sitting in a sauna.

No one else is reporting those sort of consumption figures, even at true motorway speeds.

[MrOrange]

Byker28i said:

Where did these figures come from. Thats not the RAC figures from 2016.
Page 19 - 40-49 miles
https://www.licencebureau.co.uk/wp-content/uploads...

Thanks for the link but I think you’re looking at the X axis which is age, not average journey distance.

For the avoidance of doubt, “average journey distance” is not just cars, it’s all journeys.

[andrewrob]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Just double checking which one it was between these two? Can't understand
how he's not managing it if its the 40kw one (second picture)

[Mr2Mike]

rxe said:

What I really don't get is that people (who are solvent enough to be buying new cars) are willing to put up with inconvenience for £50 a week or whatever. Yes, I could save £1500 a year on fuel, but the first time I encountered a busted charger with no option but to wait - it would not be worth it.

Exactly this. Whilst there is still a choice IMO you'd have to be pretty fixated on saving money to give up the significant convenience advantage of the ICE.

I also have to chuckle at people getting triggered by others mentioning completely valid downsides (at least currently and for many people) of EVs. If it suits your useage pattern then great, but don't assume everyone else is in the same position. Its not unusual for people to regularly do long distance trips just as its not unusual for people to have no suitable charging facilities. Accept this rather than being in denial.

[Kraken]

There will always be people that a certain technology isn't suitable for but they are rarely the majority. Some people might want 400 mile ranges between charges but very few people actually NEED that given how far the average person drives in a day.

Until there is an electric van that can tow a race, carry a tonne in payload for the day job and have a 300 mile range electric vehicles are not for me as much as I would like one but I know I'm a tiny percentage of the motoring population.

[Coolbanana]

So much fuss for nothing!

Pure EV's being forced upon everyone are decades away. Hybrids will be first.

As I've stated on other EV-related Threads, get over the cost-saving potential, it isn't about that! Stop thinking selfishly! EV is a solution to everyone breathing cleaner, fresher air devoid of foul-smelling emissions in built-up areas while improvements in energy-source advancement and production moves us away from our fossil-fuel reliance.

How many cars from the 70's are knocking about as daily drivers? Not that many. So as Manufacturers produce more Hybrids, pure Petrol and, first Diesel, will eventually simply not be available to buy, by 2040 in some countries. This won't be overnight. This process has only just started, in earnest.

Infrastructure and problems related to it, will improve in the coming years, by 2040 when the proposed ban on Petrol and Diesel-only powered cars comes into effect, it'll be a lot better than today. But Hybrids will still be available. Manufacturers will, at some point, find making Petrol and Diesel-only cars uneconomical and cease altogether - again, that 2040 date will largely dictate exactly when that might be.

So, whether you like it or not, Petrol and Diesel-only powered cars will die out. This will leave Hybrids and EV's. Once the EV infrastructure is in place, many, many years from now, then we will see Hybrids decline too.

But right now, you have a choice of Petrol, Diesel, Hybrid or EV. You are living in a time with the greatest choice for the coming 20 years or so. Enjoy it, and choose what works best for you.

[lowdrag]

MrOrange said:

lowdrag said:

I suggest you look at his photo of my car's dashboard after a day's run from Spain to France.

Literally, no-one ever does this. I suggest you might look at real-world statistics:

• The average journey in the UK is SEVEN miles
• 95% of all journeys were less than 25 miles
• 56% of car journeys were less than 5 miles
• The average miles driven per MONTH in the UK is less than 400

Using the yardstick of a "1,000 miles in one day" superbly illustrates confirmation bias, I would suggest.

Well, it is nice to that I am "no one". Back in the 70s I drove 300 miles from Leicester to Edinburgh in my 1275 Marina many a time. At the end of the sixties I drove non-stop from Newquay to Portsmouth overnight in a Morris 1100. I have and still regularly do journeys that you seem to think are not feasable. You seem to think that everyone lives in the UK but I hate to disappoint you but that isn't the case. I did 500 miles a few years back, in the rain, in my D-type to Geneva, and then back again. I drove from Cape Town to Sun City, and even though I am 72 I still have no hesitation in taking on long journeys. Yes, my daily routine in to the café and back to have a coffee with friends or a trip to the supermarket, but I need a car that can take on short and long journeys, and no EV as yet fits by bill.