RE: New Mountune Focus RS upgrades
Discussion
skidskid said:
David87 said:
For all the extra cost and the fact you lose the Ford warranty, I couldn't really be arsed with this over and above the FPM375 upgrade. Sure it's very good though!
Losing the warranty with the block cracking issue they have must be a massive deal for any owner. Or was that an issue only limited to a few cars?aaron_2000 said:
I think for the money (which I don't have) I'd get a mint blob eye or hawk eye Impreza, take it to RCM and have it done to 350bhp-400bhp. The GC8's they did (of which my uncle owned one) when done to those numbers would do 0-60 in under 3.8 seconds, speeds of over 186, torque figures of over 450 lb ft whilst sill being just as usable everyday, the figures are pretty much the same for the GD series (blob/bug/hawkeye). For £20,000 you can get ones that have had all the work done, you can get a Litchfield 420 hatchback for dead on £20K that'd see any new hot hatch left behind.
Comparing a 10 year old heavily modified Impreza with a modern hatch back, oranges and lemons springs to mind 
wormus said:
Does that mean the Golf R is easier and more reliable to tune to 400hp - 500hp ?
Yes. Plus it's a whole lot cheaper!RamboLambo said:
Still isn't a mark II.
Boring 5 dr family hatchback
It's funny, when I had my MKII first, most on here said it was an ST in a chavvy dress. Now it has untouchable status Boring 5 dr family hatchback
SidewaysSi said:
Did you have to stand on the seat? Seems like you have a pretty good range and I assume this was all one handed?
You haven't been in one have you, helmet was touching the roif as the seat is so high. Not one handed buy yes I did feel like a total hero doing it, so much fun. 
Tuvra said:
Comparing a 10 year old heavily modified Impreza with a modern hatch back, oranges and lemons springs to mind
I wasn't aware 2010 was 10 years ago. The interior of the hatchback (G3) Impreza is still nearly as nice inside as a Focus RS, not that anyone who's spending £30K plus on a Ford Focus is going to pay massive attention to. However, a Litchfield 420 G3 would outperform the Focus, whilst maintaining 4WD. You also have Japanese reliability, strong diff and the choice to get a warranty from Litchfield which is more than can be said for the Focus. Plus you save in excess of £10K in the process. http://www.hurstcars.co.uk/used-cars/subaru-imprez...
I see people are still banging on about V4 and V5 engine versions. This has been proven to be a load of rubbish, sadly the internet cannot forget. The engine failure issue has the potential to affect ALL cars. I'm aware of cars with build dates as late as March 2017 with the dreaded cylinder 3 coolant leak. That being said, the numbers are nowhere near as bad as what the internet would make you think.
aaron_2000 said:
Tuvra said:
Comparing a 10 year old heavily modified Impreza with a modern hatch back, oranges and lemons springs to mind
I wasn't aware 2010 was 10 years ago. The interior of the hatchback (G3) Impreza is still nearly as nice inside as a Focus RS, not that anyone who's spending £30K plus on a Ford Focus is going to pay massive attention to. However, a Litchfield 420 G3 would outperform the Focus, whilst maintaining 4WD. You also have Japanese reliability, strong diff and the choice to get a warranty from Litchfield which is more than can be said for the Focus. Plus you save in excess of £10K in the process. http://www.hurstcars.co.uk/used-cars/subaru-imprez...
aaron_2000 said:
I think for the money (which I don't have) I'd get a mint blob eye or hawk eye Impreza, take it to RCM and have it done to 350bhp-400bhp.
I wasn't aware that they made a blob or hawk eye in 2010? Ohh wait, you just moved the goal posts......Well, I am someone who has spent £30k on a Focus and I am someone that considered buying a £33k "Hawk Eye" Impreza (RB320) back in 2007, the Interior put me off even back then and it certainly would now. Your talking absolute b
ks mate, why stop at the Impreza? I know someone who has a 2004 Vauxhall Corsa that would spank that Impreza in almost every aspect, it's probably worth (or I should say the engine is worth) around £6k tops, would anyone genuinely choose it over a 2017 Focus RS, would they fk.Besides, even a 2010 Impreza is 6 years older than a Focus RS, that's not a "bargain" it's just depreciation. Like I said, oranges and lemons
Tuvra said:
I wasn't aware that they made a blob or hawk eye in 2010? Ohh wait, you just moved the goal posts......
aaron_2000 said:
For £20,000 you can get ones that have had all the work done, you can get a Litchfield 420 hatchback for dead on £20K that'd see any new hot hatch left behind.
As I said. Anyone who's buying a Focus RS because they care about having a real drivers car that can also carry 5 people would be happy to consider the faster. cheaper, lighter, better built Japanese car that's already been hit by depreciation, as opposed to just buying one because you can get good lease deals on them. wormus said:
Does that mean the Golf R is easier and more reliable to tune to 400hp - 500hp ?
I often wonder what the safe limit is on either with simple bolt on modifications. When you get to the point of needing to take the engine apart, you may as well buy a more powerful car to start with. It's cheaper and will last longer.
Standard Golf R turbo can't flow enough for 500hp, but the engine can handle it if the tune isn't too aggressive and smashes the Piston ring lands.I often wonder what the safe limit is on either with simple bolt on modifications. When you get to the point of needing to take the engine apart, you may as well buy a more powerful car to start with. It's cheaper and will last longer.
The Mighty Car Mods chaps did a factory tour in Germany whilst 'building' their own RS Focus. They spoke to one of the Ford techs and he said the standard power is close to the limit. Doesn't stop people tuning them though.
It's always the same. Aftermarket tuners unlock the ECUs, ramp up the boost, sell the tune to the public and then 6 months - a year later, engines start to fail. The amount of people who willingly turn their engine into a ticking time bomb with no warranty is unreal!
You could indeed buy a faster car to begin with, but the same theory applies. You could buy a 911 turbo, tune that up, bust an engine and be down £50K for a replacement. Bust a Golf R engine and it's ~ £7K for a new one. Cheaper car, cheaper spares.
aaron_2000 said:
As I said. Anyone who's buying a Focus RS because they care about having a real drivers car that can also carry 5 people would be happy to consider the faster. cheaper, lighter, better built Japanese car that's already been hit by depreciation, as opposed to just buying one because you can get good lease deals on them.
I'd consider the focus as it's cheaper to tax, better fuel economy, better to drive, more options, newer, lower mileage, better safety features. A 400bhp 2010 Impreza would be a second car, just my view.aaron_2000 said:
I wasn't aware 2010 was 10 years ago. The interior of the hatchback (G3) Impreza is still nearly as nice inside as a Focus RS, not that anyone who's spending £30K plus on a Ford Focus is going to pay massive attention to. However, a Litchfield 420 G3 would outperform the Focus, whilst maintaining 4WD. You also have Japanese reliability, strong diff and the choice to get a warranty from Litchfield which is more than can be said for the Focus. Plus you save in excess of £10K in the process.
http://www.hurstcars.co.uk/used-cars/subaru-imprez...
Do you get torque vectoring and android auto too??http://www.hurstcars.co.uk/used-cars/subaru-imprez...
SuperchargedVR6 said:
wormus said:
Does that mean the Golf R is easier and more reliable to tune to 400hp - 500hp ?
Standard Golf R turbo can't flow enough for 500hp, but the engine can handle it if the tune isn't too aggressive and smashes the Piston ring lands.From what I san see, it looks that pound-for-pound the Focus RS MK3 is about the same to get to 400hp than the golf r MK7. That said, it is not clear how nice the torque/hp curve is on this new Focus RS 400hp kit/map. HP is not everything and I would prefer more usability than raw HP.
From my own research the maximum, warranted Stage 1 tune for the Mark 7 Golf R from Oettinger/VW Racing is 360bhp (375 from Mountune on the Focus RS), Stage 2 is 400hp (non-forged) and Stage 3 is anything above 400hp. I know there are other tuners but I always use them as the benchmark.
Above 400hp Mark 7 Golf R from same tuner is a Stage 3 and running a forged engine at that and you will also need to upgrade the brakes. Yep, plenty of Golf R folks running mega tunes over 400hp without forged engines (and without the brake upgrades!) but I personally would only trust a Golf tune which is fully warranted from the likes of Oettinger as I know I would be getting a true hp out of the engine and a nice torque curve which does not compromise the usability of the car.
Thus, it also looks like on the Focus RS that for a tune over 400hp you will need to be running a forged engine also - a dead heat you would believe however, it is not entirely clear whether you can buy a fully warranted 500hp kit for the Golf R, Oettinger seem to be shy of stating anything over 430hp for the Golf R with a Stage 3 and the maximum I have seen stated from other tuners is 470hp.
If Mountune do release 500hp kit for the Focus RS and provide a warranty it will be 'one-up' over the Golf R.
Does anyone know if you go over 400hp with the Focus RS Mk3 that the brakes need upgrading ?
Edited by Carl_Manchester on Tuesday 8th August 17:31
I seem to remember that the rear diff can't cope with much more than standard power on the mk3 rs. Loads of tuning places have had the diff go into a limp home mode and default back to fwd due to the clutch packs overheating in the diff. All this talk about torque vectoring being better, it's not tho is it. If it's a million miles better than regular lsd in an AWD car then the wrc cars would use torque vectoring. They don't because it's not necessary to send 100% to the left or right wheel. And all on a generic flashed on map, recipe for disaster
HedgeyGedgey said:
I seem to remember that the rear diff can't cope with much more than standard power on the mk3 rs. Loads of tuning places have had the diff go into a limp home mode and default back to fwd due to the clutch packs overheating in the diff. All this talk about torque vectoring being better, it's not tho is it. If it's a million miles better than regular lsd in an AWD car then the wrc cars would use torque vectoring. They don't because it's not necessary to send 100% to the left or right wheel. And all on a generic flashed on map, recipe for disaster
"Loads of tuning places" can you name one? The RDU switch off is because it overheats, which happens regardless of tune. It also happens regardless of the RDU's temperature. The RDU does not have a temp sensor, the safety switch off relies on the PTU temp sensor and an algorithm which is calculated from throttle position and steering angles.HedgeyGedgey said:
I seem to remember that the rear diff can't cope with much more than standard power on the mk3 rs. Loads of tuning places have had the diff go into a limp home mode and default back to fwd due to the clutch packs overheating in the diff. All this talk about torque vectoring being better, it's not tho is it. If it's a million miles better than regular lsd in an AWD car then the wrc cars would use torque vectoring. They don't because it's not necessary to send 100% to the left or right wheel. And all on a generic flashed on map, recipe for disaster
I don't know where to start with this load of tripe. The RS has so many critics that have no experience of it, take one for a drive (preferably on track) and then criticise it. It's just so much fun. 40mins on track at Ford Fair had me running out of fuel and destroying the tyres but was worth every penny and the RDU didn't overheat and shut down. My RB5 was a great car and fun on track as is my R26 but this really is a totally different league of tyre destroying fun.
RabbitRabbitRabbit said:
HedgeyGedgey said:
I seem to remember that the rear diff can't cope with much more than standard power on the mk3 rs. Loads of tuning places have had the diff go into a limp home mode and default back to fwd due to the clutch packs overheating in the diff. All this talk about torque vectoring being better, it's not tho is it. If it's a million miles better than regular lsd in an AWD car then the wrc cars would use torque vectoring. They don't because it's not necessary to send 100% to the left or right wheel. And all on a generic flashed on map, recipe for disaster
"Loads of tuning places" can you name one? The RDU switch off is because it overheats, which happens regardless of tune. It also happens regardless of the RDU's temperature. The RDU does not have a temp sensor, the safety switch off relies on the PTU temp sensor and an algorithm which is calculated from throttle position and steering angles.http://jalopnik.com/this-is-how-much-power-the-for...
worth a read........
sleepera6 said:
^ that Impreza is awesome
This one comes with a £10k sound system for nights out at Mc Donald's http://www.hurstcars.co.uk/used-cars/subaru-imprez...HedgeyGedgey said:
I never said where the measurements were taken from. The ecu obbiously shuts down the diff for a reason. The clutch packs overheat fact yes? Just adding more power/torque will make the design problem worse yes? The chief engineer on a small YouTube channel called mighty car mods said the car is pretty much at it's limits yes? The rear diff is well known weak point and very well documented, if you want to know which tuning company's have run into issues with it shutting down then why not research them yourself it's well documented on the interweb.
http://jalopnik.com/this-is-how-much-power-the-for...
worth a read........
I know you never said where the measurements come from I never said you did, I was educating you as you need it. The rear clutch packs will inevitably overheat, as will anything when friction occurs. But simply saying they are a weak point because of an intentional safety feature is just moronic. They can handle more power, just look at the Revo stage 2, 438 bhp and they don't instantly switch off with that power.http://jalopnik.com/this-is-how-much-power-the-for...
worth a read........
So you can't link anything about the RDU switching off for any reason other than heat, well that says a lot.
Edited by RabbitRabbitRabbit on Tuesday 8th August 18:15
Edited by RabbitRabbitRabbit on Tuesday 8th August 18:17
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