RE: New Mountune Focus RS upgrades
Discussion
and then another £16700(+finance costs) if you want to keep it!!aaron_2000 said:
Max Power? Wrong decade, that's the equivalent of their offer, what are those monthly payments at? 
aaron_2000 said:
The Polar dealer up here will do a £3K deposit contribution when you put in £4K which brings payments down to around £335-£340
In your example, where exactly is the Ford contribution? I can't see one penny let alone the £3k you mention.You could get a McLaren 675LT for £350 a month if you put enough down. Your a f
king idiot mate with absolute no idea of finance. I can't argue with you anymore, your embarrassing yourself 
For those saying they haven't seen that deal local, every dealer offers it. For those saying that it's a bad deal, do you really think a 3 year old Focus RS will be worth £16,700 with 27k on the clock? IMO it will still be worth £23,700+ or more which would see you get your deposit back (using the above example). Baring in mind 3 year old pre-facelift ST's are £15k+, 2 year old facelifts are £17,500+ and early (Sync 2, V4 engine etc), low spec RS' are still £29k+.
Out of the hot hatches, I know where I'd prefer to have money tied up
Carl_Manchester said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
wormus said:
Does that mean the Golf R is easier and more reliable to tune to 400hp - 500hp ?
Standard Golf R turbo can't flow enough for 500hp, but the engine can handle it if the tune isn't too aggressive and smashes the Piston ring lands.From what I san see, it looks that pound-for-pound the Focus RS MK3 is about the same to get to 400hp than the golf r MK7. That said, it is not clear how nice the torque/hp curve is on this new Focus RS 400hp kit/map. HP is not everything and I would prefer more usability than raw HP.
From my own research the maximum, warranted Stage 1 tune for the Mark 7 Golf R from Oettinger/VW Racing is 360bhp (375 from Mountune on the Focus RS), Stage 2 is 400hp (non-forged) and Stage 3 is anything above 400hp. I know there are other tuners but I always use them as the benchmark.
Above 400hp Mark 7 Golf R from same tuner is a Stage 3 and running a forged engine at that and you will also need to upgrade the brakes. Yep, plenty of Golf R folks running mega tunes over 400hp without forged engines (and without the brake upgrades!) but I personally would only trust a Golf tune which is fully warranted from the likes of Oettinger as I know I would be getting a true hp out of the engine and a nice torque curve which does not compromise the usability of the car.
Thus, it also looks like on the Focus RS that for a tune over 400hp you will need to be running a forged engine also - a dead heat you would believe however, it is not entirely clear whether you can buy a fully warranted 500hp kit for the Golf R, Oettinger seem to be shy of stating anything over 430hp for the Golf R with a Stage 3 and the maximum I have seen stated from other tuners is 470hp.
If Mountune do release 500hp kit for the Focus RS and provide a warranty it will be 'one-up' over the Golf R.
Does anyone know if you go over 400hp with the Focus RS Mk3 that the brakes need upgrading ?
Edited by Carl_Manchester on Tuesday 8th August 17:31
It's like APR trying to offer remaps through VAG dealers (I think VW RacingLine trying to do the same) with a warranty. Much, much lower outputs than their usual off-the-shelf offerings. They know, we know, push the engine to their usual headline grabbing marketing figures and the engine won't last.
VFEngineering tried the same with their Supercharger kits. These companies are trying to be the 'AMG' of VW. It'll never work because their products aren't good enough, quite frankly. They use customers as beta testers. VAG would be far more scrutinous and their mapping and hardware would fail under continuous testing, aka, FUCT
The Golf's engine features either 4032 forged pistons, or hypereutectic cast, I can't remember....but they are not the brittle pieces of crap you got in crude 80s engines. I suspect the same in the Focus engine. Steel rods n cranks too. They are built very strong, but still have easily reached limits, such is the way modern turbos hit so hard, so quickly.
I highly doubt we will see 400+hp RS's with Ford 60K powertrain warranties. Likewise Golf Rs.
Remember these 2 companies are in competition with each other. Ford didn't arrive at 350hp as a 'that'll do' figure. It is the limit of the engine's power/reliability compromise. If 400hp was possible from the get go to really smash the Golf into the ground, they'd have sold it with 400hp. Same with the smaller Golf engine. Only bumped up 10hp or so for the Clubsport S.
Edited by SuperchargedVR6 on Thursday 10th August 16:58
SuperchargedVR6 said:
The Golf's engine features either 4032 forged pistons, or hypereutectic cast, I can't remember....but they are not the brittle pieces of crap you got in crude 80s engines.
AFAIK the 86-92 Ford Sierra Cosworth engine had forged guts with a standard 205-225 bhp. That engine would take a 50% uprate with just a chip and injectors. Am I the only one that prefers the look of the current WRX STI to the Focus?
It's just looks more car for the money IMO and seems a bit more grown up even with the big spoiler. It's not quite as fast and isn't bleeding edge but to be fair, Ford really had to throw everything at the RS to not look silly - and summarily beat the opposition - STI included.
AJB88 said:
Been running my Cupra (Golf R engine) for 3 years at Stage 2, last RR session was 416bhp.
Bet any manufacturer would be happy to know their engine lasts at least three years. Now they want to know if you can pay for the warranty claims against them when they release their 416bhp version 
It's a tough one this.
As a previous owner of a Mk3 RS I did enjoy the car for a number of different reasons.
On the twisties you could throw it into bends and it dug in and you could push way beyond what you expected it to be capable of.
I quite liked the look of it, the nitrous (or British Gas?) blue paint meant it stood out - even if it frequently attracted the wrong sort of attention!
What put me off and ultimately led me to the sale were 3 things:
1. Performance - there's no getting away that it's a lardy car, and coming from an Impreza with 440bhp (or 473 on meth if we're doing pub figures), and then an E92 M3, the Focus always felt underpowered to me.
I stuck the FPM375 on it, and whilst it does give you noticeable shove, it never felt as quick as a 380bhp Impreza - whether that's because modern cars and the twin scroll made the power delivery smoother is one for debate I suppose, but to me it always felt more like 330-340bhp, so this 400 pack would have to go on if I still owned it. The trouble is...
2. Worries - mine had the much debated "veering" issue which many attribute to "torque steer", torque vectoring, PDC steering and other reasons, but this really ruined it for me when pressing on that the car would squirm and tramline.
Many accept this as a characteristic of the car but having had a big off several years ago this knocked my confidence in the vehicle and was the primary reason I sold up in the end.
The other two things that combined to make me sell up were the sticking exhaust flap issue (mine had it, meant you couldn't change mode...on a 6 month old car with less than 6000 miles on it...) and the much discussed engine block problem (which I also noted on the RSOC forum seems to affect cars of all ages, meaning Ford *still* don't appear to have addressed the problem) - the latter obviously isn't an issue whilst the car is under warranty but will I suspect affect residuals, and I bought the car originally with the intention of keeping it for between 5-10 years if I really enjoyed it.
With Ford failing to release any sort of press release of reassurance for customers, and their dealerships apparently clueless on most of this stuff (or told to act that way?), I lost confidence in the car and sold up.
3. The pops and bangs - it's a weird one this and very much a marmite type of thing, but after a few months, the car's constant artificial pops and bangs in sport and race mode started to irritate me and I wanted to turn that behaviour off.
I can see the attraction if the car's a weekend toy and you want to go out for a spirited drive and enjoy the pops and crackles, but then, driving around town and having the car constantly pop pop bang becomes a little tiresome verging on embarrassing when you're 40 years old with a toddler in the back! - oh and whilst we're on the family bit - the boot really is ridiculously small unless you remove the huge piece of polystyrene with the tyre foam kit in.
That's a fair bit of criticism to heap on the car and I know there will more than likely be RS owners waiting to jump on me and flame me for some of the above comments, but a small irritation to one person will be a constant niggle for another and trust me it cost me plenty financially to sell up and get into another car.
Let's be clear, it is still a very good car, but if it were my money and I planned on keeping it beyond the warranty period, I would want Ford to publicly acknowledge the engine issue and announce a recall or fix to restore confidence.
As a previous owner of a Mk3 RS I did enjoy the car for a number of different reasons.
On the twisties you could throw it into bends and it dug in and you could push way beyond what you expected it to be capable of.
I quite liked the look of it, the nitrous (or British Gas?
) blue paint meant it stood out - even if it frequently attracted the wrong sort of attention!What put me off and ultimately led me to the sale were 3 things:
1. Performance - there's no getting away that it's a lardy car, and coming from an Impreza with 440bhp (or 473 on meth if we're doing pub figures
), and then an E92 M3, the Focus always felt underpowered to me.I stuck the FPM375 on it, and whilst it does give you noticeable shove, it never felt as quick as a 380bhp Impreza - whether that's because modern cars and the twin scroll made the power delivery smoother is one for debate I suppose, but to me it always felt more like 330-340bhp, so this 400 pack would have to go on if I still owned it. The trouble is...
2. Worries - mine had the much debated "veering" issue which many attribute to "torque steer", torque vectoring, PDC steering and other reasons, but this really ruined it for me when pressing on that the car would squirm and tramline.
Many accept this as a characteristic of the car but having had a big off several years ago this knocked my confidence in the vehicle and was the primary reason I sold up in the end.
The other two things that combined to make me sell up were the sticking exhaust flap issue (mine had it, meant you couldn't change mode...on a 6 month old car with less than 6000 miles on it...) and the much discussed engine block problem (which I also noted on the RSOC forum seems to affect cars of all ages, meaning Ford *still* don't appear to have addressed the problem) - the latter obviously isn't an issue whilst the car is under warranty but will I suspect affect residuals, and I bought the car originally with the intention of keeping it for between 5-10 years if I really enjoyed it.
With Ford failing to release any sort of press release of reassurance for customers, and their dealerships apparently clueless on most of this stuff (or told to act that way?), I lost confidence in the car and sold up.
3. The pops and bangs - it's a weird one this and very much a marmite type of thing, but after a few months, the car's constant artificial pops and bangs in sport and race mode started to irritate me and I wanted to turn that behaviour off.
I can see the attraction if the car's a weekend toy and you want to go out for a spirited drive and enjoy the pops and crackles, but then, driving around town and having the car constantly pop pop bang becomes a little tiresome verging on embarrassing when you're 40 years old with a toddler in the back!
- oh and whilst we're on the family bit - the boot really is ridiculously small unless you remove the huge piece of polystyrene with the tyre foam kit in.That's a fair bit of criticism to heap on the car and I know there will more than likely be RS owners waiting to jump on me and flame me for some of the above comments, but a small irritation to one person will be a constant niggle for another and trust me it cost me plenty financially to sell up and get into another car.
Let's be clear, it is still a very good car, but if it were my money and I planned on keeping it beyond the warranty period, I would want Ford to publicly acknowledge the engine issue and announce a recall or fix to restore confidence.
Ahbefive said:
5year warranty and no reports of the later cars having issues (unless you have a link to any?) gives me plenty of confidence.
Any of the RS owners club forums have threads mate. I think this one should work assuming you're a member - my subscription has lapsed.You should find reports of failures on 17 plate cars on there IIRC.
http://www.focusrsoc.com/forums/topic/289697-fault...
The 5 year *extended* warranty (let's not forget many will be standard 3 year) will add some peace of mind I understand that, but if you don't intend to hold onto it you may still see residuals drop if it becomes a bigger issue and Ford don't come up with a proper fix (replacing the engine isn't really a fix), that's what really irritated me - in my eyes they should be meeting the problem head on not chatting behind closed doors and replacing engines if you see my point?
Again, some will be on PCP with an agreed residual value and won't be worried so it may just be that finance companies take up taking a big hit on some of these - and I'm sure none of us will really lose much sleep over that
Be advised that in the event you do get a failure, some owners were seeing delays of a few months for the replacement whilst they were knocking about in an Ecoboost Fiesta, so it's all about what you're prepared to accept - totally acknowledge some will be fine with it, I'm just a worrier
.Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 15th August 11:19
Ahbefive said:
I haven't seen any reports of 66 or 17 plates cars having issues. I can't open that link as not a member.
https://mk3focusrs.club/forum/topic/engine-failure-possible-cause/http://www.focusrs.org/forum/154-focus-rs-troubles...
Page 2 of the first thread - 66 plate with a failed engine:
https://mk3focusrs.club/forum/topic/engine-failure...
Second thread a tuner states that build date is not a reliable way to determine affected vehicles as earlier parts were fitted to later cars.
From what I read on RS Owners club, and re-iterated on the second thread, the threaded plug tell is also not a reliable way of identifying affected cars, so seemed like it's a bit of a minefield.
It's certainly not as clear cut as some people suggest.
Go through them, if you don't see any 66 or 17 plate problems in there I'd be surprised.
I'm asking myself - wouldn't it be cheaper for Ford to recall the affected cars and retro-fit the uprated parts rather than replacing an entire engine!?
I would imagine only they know which are affected.....or perhaps they don't and that's why they're taking that approach?
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 15th August 12:38
Ahbefive said:
Looks like good news to me. Seems that its possible approx under 0.5% of cars are affected due to poor q/c at at supplier. So approx 120 cars out of 22,000.
Best bet is to thrash it for 10k miles and then you should know if it's all good or get a lovely new engine under warranty.
Where did you get those figures from?Best bet is to thrash it for 10k miles and then you should know if it's all good or get a lovely new engine under warranty.
mrnoisy78 said:
Ahbefive said:
Looks like good news to me. Seems that its possible approx under 0.5% of cars are affected due to poor q/c at at supplier. So approx 120 cars out of 22,000.
Best bet is to thrash it for 10k miles and then you should know if it's all good or get a lovely new engine under warranty.
Where did you get those figures from?Best bet is to thrash it for 10k miles and then you should know if it's all good or get a lovely new engine under warranty.
Ahbefive said:
Focus RS owners club approximated/worked out on there by someone with knowledge on the matter. I believe it was the link posted by someone in this thread.
Right, but I bet that someone doesn't state who they are and who they work for - unless they say "my name is x and I work for Ford" you have to take such claims with a pinch of salt.Such statements get countered by pages of the Mk3 owners club thread where you see 2 cars in the same dealership, same time, both blown engines; which makes those stats look rather suspect, and this is my point there needs to be a balanced viewpoint.
The web will always seem to inflate things because people share it first, ask questions later, but I'd be willing to bet that this is more than 0.5% of the vehicles produced as the reports seem to be too detailed and individual in each case, so rubbishing it seems inappropriate and naive in the first instance as well.
The frustrating thing is that until Ford come out and say openly what the issue was, and how many models were truly affected, nobody will know for sure regardless of who writes what, it just seemed that an awful lot of different people were posting up who had experienced it first hand.
Can only wish you luck (given the number of new reports still coming in looks like it's still needed!) and hope Ford either come clean and admit there's a problem, or these reports start to reduce in number.
Warranty or not, there is clearly a problem with these blocks producing reliable power - incidentally, mine never made the figures quoted by Ford when it was dyno'd either
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Thursday 24th August 16:53
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