RE: Singer and Williams AE engine collaboration!
Discussion
For something a bit more "in reach" of most budgets see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPrHqRg-Qs - this is what fitting an LS3 V8 engine into a 996 looks like!
I would really like to do this to a 996
I would really like to do this to a 996
Edited by ogrodz on Thursday 10th August 15:51
ogrodz said:
For something a bit more "in reach" of most budgets see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPrHqRg-Qs - this is what fitting an LS3 V8 engine into a 996 looks like!
I would really like to do this to a 996
Tyler Hoover is doing that to his 996, it's a very good swap.I would really like to do this to a 996
Edited by ogrodz on Thursday 10th August 15:51
Are we still talking c.£300k for a Singer?
Given that a lot of modern supercars are pushing close to that now with their optioned prices and the 'flipper tax' applied, I would imagine the Singer (at that price) actually represents exceptional value for money. Certainly when you factor in depreciation...or lack of it.
Given that a lot of modern supercars are pushing close to that now with their optioned prices and the 'flipper tax' applied, I would imagine the Singer (at that price) actually represents exceptional value for money. Certainly when you factor in depreciation...or lack of it.
PhantomPH said:
Are we still talking c.£300k for a Singer?
Given that a lot of modern supercars are pushing close to that now with their optioned prices and the 'flipper tax' applied, I would imagine the Singer (at that price) actually represents exceptional value for money. Certainly when you factor in depreciation...or lack of it.
I think someone said >£700k for a 4.0l, inc. all UK taxes.Given that a lot of modern supercars are pushing close to that now with their optioned prices and the 'flipper tax' applied, I would imagine the Singer (at that price) actually represents exceptional value for money. Certainly when you factor in depreciation...or lack of it.
I would expect one with this stunning power unit will be significantly more.
Chris Stott said:
PhantomPH said:
Are we still talking c.£300k for a Singer?
Given that a lot of modern supercars are pushing close to that now with their optioned prices and the 'flipper tax' applied, I would imagine the Singer (at that price) actually represents exceptional value for money. Certainly when you factor in depreciation...or lack of it.
I think someone said >£700k for a 4.0l, inc. all UK taxes.Given that a lot of modern supercars are pushing close to that now with their optioned prices and the 'flipper tax' applied, I would imagine the Singer (at that price) actually represents exceptional value for money. Certainly when you factor in depreciation...or lack of it.
I would expect one with this stunning power unit will be significantly more.
These cars aren't investments, they aren't off-the-shelf.
They are for the seriously loaded enthusiast looking for a modernised classic without much regard for cost, along the lines of the Eagle E type.
I'll never have the money for one, but if I did it's the sort of thing I'd want.
Good luck to them.
PhantomPH said:
Chris Stott said:
I think someone said >£700k for a 4.0l, inc. all UK taxes.
I would expect one with this stunning power unit will be significantly more.
Damn, that quashes that dream, then! I would expect one with this stunning power unit will be significantly more.
They are a lot less expensive in the US as you don't get hit by the tax. And from what I've read on Rennlist, they hold their value come resale.
There are others that will build you something similar for a lot less money, but not quite to the same exquisite quality as a Singer.
KarlMac said:
At what point does it stop being a Porsche and become a kit car?
I think the problem there is simply with the definition of the term 'kit car'. To most people, a 'kit car' is a bunch of rusty old secondhand parts and homemade bits of bodywork. The problem then comes when you apply that term to a car made entirely of new components, but just assembled at home (Ultima, Caterham etc), or a car made of cherry picked components (Singer 911, Superperformance Cobra etc). There's nothing wrong with those latter two methods of construction, and Caterham, Singer etc make fine cars; what's wrong is using the same term for them as for the former method of cobbling together a rusty old heap!The kit car thing is as hard to define as sports car or super car. There is a very subjective element to it.
But I think the majority of people would reckon that the truest meaning is that the car is build at home.
All cars are assembled from kits so it really just boils down to the scale of the operation.
There is of course the UK specific and historic legal definition for taxation purposes of delivering a factory built car with just enough parts still needed to be fitted at home so as to classify it as a kit car for tax breaks but even that ruse highlights the importance of the domestic build nature required for the classification.
It wouldn't even cross my mind that anything from Singer could be thought of as a kit car. Sure it takes an old donor but all the work is done by artisans in a workshop/factory environment. And the bespoke nature of each product means it isn't a kit in other definitions either.
If we start to widen out the meaning of kitcar to mean cars build in a workshop/factory using a donor and a kit of indentical parts then to me that would make Porsche itself a kitcar builder long before an artisanal operation like Singer where each product is different.
But I think the majority of people would reckon that the truest meaning is that the car is build at home.
All cars are assembled from kits so it really just boils down to the scale of the operation.
There is of course the UK specific and historic legal definition for taxation purposes of delivering a factory built car with just enough parts still needed to be fitted at home so as to classify it as a kit car for tax breaks but even that ruse highlights the importance of the domestic build nature required for the classification.
It wouldn't even cross my mind that anything from Singer could be thought of as a kit car. Sure it takes an old donor but all the work is done by artisans in a workshop/factory environment. And the bespoke nature of each product means it isn't a kit in other definitions either.
If we start to widen out the meaning of kitcar to mean cars build in a workshop/factory using a donor and a kit of indentical parts then to me that would make Porsche itself a kitcar builder long before an artisanal operation like Singer where each product is different.
Chris Stott said:
They are a lot less expensive in the US as you don't get hit by the tax. And from what I've read on Rennlist, they hold their value come resale.
A chunk of the apparent increase in price for UK customers has been the drop in the value of Sterling over the last couple of years. The £/$ exchange rate has gone from a steady-ish 1.6 to 1.3, so there's an approx 25% price hike right there.Have any changed hands yet? It's easy to say they are holding value if none of the original owners are planning to sell any time soon. I can imagine they would command a good price, especially if a prospective owner was keen to avoid the long waiting list for a new-build.
Also, the guy receiving the first of these new engines already owns three Singers, so this will be his fourth! They are nice cars, but that seems a little excessive, almost like the Sultan of Brunei ordering five McLaren F1s. You can only drive one of them at a time, and they'll all offer a very similar experience.
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