RE: Singer and Williams AE engine collaboration!

[big_rob_sydney]

Streetrod said:

big_rob_sydney said:

thegreenhell said:

big_rob_sydney said:

It must be just me...

I really have no interest in any Singer...

I just want to see Lexus do an EV to their usual quality standard.

I think I agree; it is just you. Enjoy your electric appliance.

Thanks.

Not sure if you heard, but EV's have been for sale for awhile now, and quite a few people are buying them. You may want to check out Tesla, because their car is capable of immense performance, putting in 10.x second quarter miles.

If I can just ask, what is there about that kind of performance that you seem to turn your nose up at? These cars are also fuel efficient, and likely to be more reliable due to having far fewer parts, and certainly less moving parts in the engine area. I get it that a lot of people like the sound of an ICE, but even T-Rex's died out eventually.

I am afraid in your electric future sites like these are unlikely to exist. Yes electric cars can be very fast but what you must realise is that we as consumers are sleep walking into an autonomous future where your ability as an owner driver will slowly but surely be eroded to the point where you won’t even have a steering wheel in your car.

Cars will move like trains, and you won’t be given the option to have fun because for the sake of efficiency every car will have to act the same.

So I suggest you wallow in the ICE while you can as the powers that be will not tolerate the likes of Singer in the future.

This may sound a little depressing but on a positive note I think we have at least 2 -3 decades left before such a future becomes a reality

I find this sentiment a little strange.

We moved from the horse and cart to cars, and yet there is still a thriving world revolving around horses. Many step changes have occurred in history, and we still have modern reminders of olden times. Just to stay within the pistonheads ethos for a moment then, group B rally cars and historic racing cars have moved on to the modern equivalents, and yet we still celebrate the old times. Why would it be any different??

Progress will happen, whether we like it or not. You can choose to work with it, or you can choose to fight it. No one is putting a gun to your head either way. If that means EV's (or anything else) displacing the ICE, then so be it. I personally look further towards us having our own flying cars, as I find the whole "car" thing to be an inconvenient pain in the arse being stuck in traffic limited to being on the ground (probably why I enjoyed having my s1000rr - you could just filter / split past everything). If we could move into the air and have a 1000 fold increase in capacity, then I'm all for it.

And in that view, I don't see any point to ANY car. Even a motorcycle gives you more freedom in the limited context of being stuck on the ground.

[Stu08]

How did this become an EV discussion? I've started to notice EV lovers commenting on non-EV focused threads; attempting to force their opinion of why EV is awesome.

Please let us enjoy our beautiful internal combustion engines.

Edited by Stu08 on Monday 14th August 09:14

[RobDickinson]

No idea, I like the idea of EVs but they have no relevance on this thread

[anonymous-user]

Chris Stott said:

I think someone said >£700k for a 4.0l.

As much as I absolutely adore these cars I can't help but think there's a good 400 grand profit in that price no?

[CraigyMc]

fblm said:

Chris Stott said:

I think someone said >£700k for a 4.0l.

As much as I absolutely adore these cars I can't help but think there's a good 400 grand profit in that price no?

No.

[DonkeyApple]

babatunde said:

Rocket. said:

Shame it will only be for the few but what a riposte to the supposed death of the ICE !

After your Tesla has driven you to work and back all week, Saturday morning you wake up & open your garage to this, add a few gallons of precious fuel and all is right with the world.

Yup. And Sunday morning plod is at your door. Monday you're in court and by Tuesday you're serving 5 years for driving a prohibited vehicle and killing 1,000 kittens.

'They' won't be allowing people to use petrol cars for recreation. That's not the sort of thing 'They' tolerate.

[anonymous-user]

CraigyMc said:

No.

Where's more than 300k of cost?

[RobDickinson]

No idea on what their work costs.

Simple thing is if you think it's too expensive then don't buy one.

[anonymous-user]

RobDickinson said:

No idea on what their work costs.

Simple thing is if you think it's too expensive then don't buy one.

I didn't say it was too expensive, given the number of commissions evidently it's not, I said there's an absolute tonne of profit in the price. Good luck to them.

[Upperworks]

fblm said:

I didn't say it was too expensive, given the number of commissions evidently it's not, I said there's an absolute tonne of profit in the price. Good luck to them.

They kindly gave me a tour of their factory last year. After that I'd definitely say you can see where the price tag comes from. So much work by hand, I'd assuming paying the (talented and seemingly happy) workers well in America. Loads of bespoke items.

I'm sure they are making a decent profit, but I'd question the lofty figure you are suggesting. All the R&D as well spread across a tiny amount of cars.

If I had the money...

[DonkeyApple]

fblm said:

RobDickinson said:

No idea on what their work costs.

Simple thing is if you think it's too expensive then don't buy one.

I didn't say it was too expensive, given the number of commissions evidently it's not, I said there's an absolute tonne of profit in the price. Good luck to them.

I think you're confusing gross margin with net profit. The former will be large but given the cost of running the operation versus the number of units sold the net profit will be small.

[anonymous-user]

Well it's been said many times on this thread but I'll add my first impressions too - it's a bloody gorgeous looking thing.

[Digga]

DonkeyApple said:

babatunde said:

Rocket. said:

Shame it will only be for the few but what a riposte to the supposed death of the ICE !

After your Tesla has driven you to work and back all week, Saturday morning you wake up & open your garage to this, add a few gallons of precious fuel and all is right with the world.

Yup. And Sunday morning plod is at your door. Monday you're in court and by Tuesday you're serving 5 years for driving a prohibited vehicle and killing 1,000 kittens.

'They' won't be allowing people to use petrol cars for recreation. That's not the sort of thing 'They' tolerate.

In my worst case extrapolation of the punishment of the motorist, this is pretty much how I see it.

[DonkeyApple]

Digga said:

In my worst case extrapolation of the punishment of the motorist, this is pretty much how I see it.

Sadly you only need to see the huge efforts invested by extremists to have classic cars banned from London to understand just how all too easy it will be to have ICE forcibly banned from the public roads. And it's not as if the generation behind us is renowned for its political moderation or tolerance of others who do not share their 'beliefs'.

I'd love to see a country where all utility transports were EVs and that old ICE cars were still heard and used as recreational devices. But I doubt that will ever come to pass.

The car replaced the horse by natural market forces. Not State intervention and legislation. Just natural economics made the car superior and the default choice for those who could afford it. There was no Govt sanctioned and financed anti horse agenda or religion. Hence why people are still free to basically use horses as transport or recreation. ICE isn't being replaced by EV by natural market forces. It's being driven and forced by politics and new religions and when that happens the babies almost always get thrown out with the bath water. Intolerances and hatreds are generated and the end result is one of oppression and the loss of freedoms.

By far the greatest thing that could happen today to save the ICE would be for new battery tech to appear that are dirt cheap and gives EVs a massive range. That way everyone will switch to EVs based on them being cheaper and the enforceing legislation and politicos would cease and the remaining ICEs would be left as horses were, for fun and pleasure for a few people.

[PhantomPH]

DonkeyApple said:

And it's not as if the generation behind us is renowned for its political moderation or tolerance of others who do not share their 'beliefs'.

I just wanted to quote this sentence as being the most accurate thing I have read on PH in a long time.

[sisu]

Who cares about electric cars in this situation. You are carrying on like Vegans. Listen to this at full chat
http://youtu.be/l2nbOgHYq30

Edited by sisu on Monday 14th August 20:51

[DonkeyApple]

Just a shame it broke, judging by the noise on tickover.

[Dodgey_Rog]

CraigyMc said:

fblm said:

Chris Stott said:

I think someone said >£700k for a 4.0l.

As much as I absolutely adore these cars I can't help but think there's a good 400 grand profit in that price no?

No.

I was told what the Williams variant will cost $ wise, and what the standard 4.0 version costs, I know this, because my 964 is currently winging its way to Singer for a commission. Expect something in May 2018.

As for the Williams engine, I understand that commission will be unveiled at Pebble Beach, apparently, it looks fantastic.

[Chris Stott]

sisu said:

Who cares about electric cars in this situation. You are carrying on like Vegans. Listen to this at full chat
http://youtu.be/l2nbOgHYq30

Edited by sisu on Monday 14th August 20:51

Dodgey_Rog said:

I was told what the Williams variant will cost $ wise, and what the standard 4.0 version costs, I know this, because my 964 is currently winging its way to Singer for a commission. Expect something in May 2018.

As for the Williams engine, I understand that commission will be unveiled at Pebble Beach, apparently, it looks fantastic.

Jealous!!! Readers rides thread please... as many details as possible!

[Dodgey_Rog]

Chris Stott said:

sisu said:

Who cares about electric cars in this situation. You are carrying on like Vegans. Listen to this at full chat
http://youtu.be/l2nbOgHYq30

Edited by sisu on Monday 14th August 20:51

Dodgey_Rog said:

I was told what the Williams variant will cost $ wise, and what the standard 4.0 version costs, I know this, because my 964 is currently winging its way to Singer for a commission. Expect something in May 2018.

As for the Williams engine, I understand that commission will be unveiled at Pebble Beach, apparently, it looks fantastic.

Jealous!!! Readers rides thread please... as many details as possible!

Alas, its not my commission, more that I sold my car to a chap that's having the commission done. I've seen the spec, it looks awesome, I was simply blown away when he told me, after the money was in the bank and the car was waiting to be collected. We've agreed on a few deal bonuses, one of which, I get to drive it next year and go to the unveiling. I can't share anything of his commission until he agrees, but I get to the see the car take shape and will the pictures throughout the project. I did an exchange for a load of NY bagels for a signed Singer book, hopefully that can happen.

He gave me the scoop on this new car being unveiled at Pebble, I suspect this will be the most expensive Singer produced by the sounds of it. The engine alone is well into the 6 figures.