RE: New TVR - the update

[anonymous-user]

edo said:

Quags said:

anonymous mid-range drear-fest 911 as this will have something that they don't - character and originality

Like a Kia Optima or a Fiat 500?

911s are everywhere, it's an extremely common site on the road, a TVR is something special; not a daily sports car.

Not sure why you bring up the 500 and Optima, the orginal 500 has bags of character, the 911 just doesn't, it is to clinacal and dull!

[BaronMcLaren]

Esceptico said:

Would you turn away an F40 or F50 on the basis that they have no electronics?

I am very happy that the M135i that my wife drives every day has all the electronic toys but for a specialist sportscar that you are mainly driving for fun then lack of assistance means more involvement. Same with bikes. My three have 55bhp, 148bhp and 200bhp without even ABS. Focuses the mind when you open the throttle or grab the brakes. And that is how it should be. Yes I am sure I am "slower" but then I am not timing myself. How much fun I am having is more important.

Can I ask which bike has 200hp but no ABS - genuine question

[scorcher]

BaronMcLaren said:

Can I ask which bike has 200hp but no ABS - genuine question

Ducati Desmosedici as a wild guess!

[suffolk009]

Streetrod said:

...with a very unique look...

Sorry to be a pedant, but "unique" is an absolute. There's no degrees of uniqueness.

[BaronMcLaren]

scorcher said:

Ducati Desmosedici as a wild guess!

Big difference between claimed and actual 200hp with a Desmo

[SidewaysSi]

Trexthedinosaur said:

edo said:

Quags said:

anonymous mid-range drear-fest 911 as this will have something that they don't - character and originality

Like a Kia Optima or a Fiat 500?

911s are everywhere, it's an extremely common site on the road, a TVR is something special; not a daily sports car.

Not sure why you bring up the 500 and Optima, the orginal 500 has bags of character, the 911 just doesn't, it is to clinacal and dull!

Including the GT3 in that?

[ChilliWhizz]

DonkeyApple said:

edo said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Max_Torque said:

(IMO, every car sold should have it, as long as you can turn it off for track work etc)

For me though if it's going to get switched off there isn't any point in having it.

Drift everywhere sideways even in the wet going to the shops? Dont be daft.

If you're going to the shops take a shopping car. If you haven't the space to have a selection of cars then buy a 911.

I think this new car will have the basics such as ABS and TC but assume developing the really clever modern stuff takes a lot of time and money so might be missing. It just means that when the conditions dictate that it's sensible to have them you just use another car. They're only looking to sell 500 cars a year and I very much suspect that most buyers will have utility vehicles for the chores like the commute or weekly shop. Porsche make a whole range of perfectly good cars for such a purpose and most of them have diesels in them so good mpg. And VAG Bank for affordable finance.

Wow...

Properly well thought out, well reasoned, sensible post there DA

I have been of the opinion for some time now (years not months), that If for whatever reason I could only have one car, then my choice is narrowed to two... First choice is Pork (yes I know, years of denial, but I kinda fell in love when I saw Steve McQueen in one in the opening shots of Le Mans... ).... And we'll not mention the 917.... For me, at the time, (yes I'm knocking on a bit), it was the epitome of what a racing car was all about..... Anyway, I digress... Second choice, FFS I can't believe I'm saying this, is another bloody German offering, an S4 Avant.... So, both German, both 4 wheel drive, both have 4 seats... (yes yes I know that's stretching it a bit ) both with good performance... well one of them anyway

I'm a British car nut, our history of making proper road going sports cars, stonking race cars, and the most amazing contribution to world motorsport will never be equalled... Which is why it's kinda strange my two single car choices are both German... or maybe not...

So, until I can no longer enjoy my little collection and have to go with just the one Teutonic Uber Machine, I'll continue to drive the best of the best...... the finest hand built (in England) cars ever made



(ignore that last, now on second bottle of CabSav )

[anonymous-user]

SidewaysSi said:

Trexthedinosaur said:

edo said:

Quags said:

anonymous mid-range drear-fest 911 as this will have something that they don't - character and originality

Like a Kia Optima or a Fiat 500?

911s are everywhere, it's an extremely common site on the road, a TVR is something special; not a daily sports car.

Not sure why you bring up the 500 and Optima, the orginal 500 has bags of character, the 911 just doesn't, it is to clinical and dull!

Including the GT3 in that?

Sorry are we talking about each specific spec of the model or the model itself?

How about a 993 GT2, or a 997.2 (?) GT3 4.0; don't be pedantic, we are talking about the new TVR; not the specification of the car.

ETA; as above, a 911 is an all round sports car, that you could use daily, the TVR, I suspect is not aimed at that market, but as a +1 to an already existing garage.

Edited by Trexthedinosaur on Saturday 12th August 18:05

[SidewaysSi]

Trexthedinosaur said:

SidewaysSi said:

Trexthedinosaur said:

edo said:

Quags said:

anonymous mid-range drear-fest 911 as this will have something that they don't - character and originality

Like a Kia Optima or a Fiat 500?

911s are everywhere, it's an extremely common site on the road, a TVR is something special; not a daily sports car.

Not sure why you bring up the 500 and Optima, the orginal 500 has bags of character, the 911 just doesn't, it is to clinical and dull!

Including the GT3 in that?

Sorry are we talking about each specific spec of the model or the model itself?

How about a 993 GT2, or a 997.2 (?) GT3 4.0; don't be pedantic, we are talking about the new TVR; not the specification of the car.

ETA; as above, a 911 is an all round sports car, that you could use daily, the TVR, I suspect is not aimed at that market, but as a +1 to an already existing garage.

Edited by Trexthedinosaur on Saturday 12th August 18:05

How is that pedantic? If anything you need to not be quite so narrow minded, as I am sure even you know that a GT Porsche is very different from a standard car.

If I were in the £100k ish market for a fun car, the TVR would absolutely be against a GT3/GT4, not a C2S for instance.

I want something as focused as I can get that thrills on the limit and is happy to be used on track as well as road. If TVR genuinely delivers on that then great.

[swisstoni]

moffspeed said:

Really looking forward to seeing this.

My old S3C TVR listed at just over £24K in 1992 - so that's the equivalent of about £50K today. For that sort of money you got a boat anchor of a Ford Cologne lump, Sherpa front indicators, Citroen CX mirrors and a dissolvable chassis/outriggers (still loved it though).

£90K for this car - sounds fair to me but its in a tough class so however well it goes (and sounds) build quality and reliability need to be exemplary from the off...

I had an S3C. The Cologne engine was a totally bomb proof Ford product. Good that they are going in that direction again.

[DonkeyApple]

ChilliWhizz said:

Wow...

Properly well thought out, well reasoned, sensible post there DA

I have been of the opinion for some time now (years not months), that If for whatever reason I could only have one car, then my choice is narrowed to two... First choice is Pork (yes I know, years of denial, but I kinda fell in love when I saw Steve McQueen in one in the opening shots of Le Mans... ).... And we'll not mention the 917.... For me, at the time, (yes I'm knocking on a bit), it was the epitome of what a racing car was all about..... Anyway, I digress... Second choice, FFS I can't believe I'm saying this, is another bloody German offering, an S4 Avant.... So, both German, both 4 wheel drive, both have 4 seats... (yes yes I know that's stretching it a bit ) both with good performance... well one of them anyway

I'm a British car nut, our history of making proper road going sports cars, stonking race cars, and the most amazing contribution to world motorsport will never be equalled... Which is why it's kinda strange my two single car choices are both German... or maybe not...

So, until I can no longer enjoy my little collection and have to go with just the one Teutonic Uber Machine, I'll continue to drive the best of the best...... the finest hand built (in England) cars ever made



(ignore that last, now on second bottle of CabSav )

The 911 is an amazing car. Especially when not in 'I'm Middle Management now so ought to buy a 911, whatever one of those is' spec.

If you could only have one car then the 911 is the most perfect choice. And as you say, if lumbered with offspring or dogs etc then one of the German uber vans is second fiddle. They give you outstanding performance, they can be parked on a London street for a few weeks and still start and when you want to offload them you can dump them in a matter of days. They are the kings of convenient performance.

I would certainly have bought a 911 and probably by now a Cayenne or Panamera turbo but I've been fortunate enough to never find myself in the situation of being restricted to just one car. And with that freedom comes the choice of buying what your heart truly desires and not having to opt for an allrounder.

I very much doubt that this car will be as robust or sophisticated as a 911 or faster on a circuit than the top Loti but that doesn't really matter because the biggest selling point of this car is that it's not a 911 or a Lotus, followed closely by the fact that for bugger all money you're getting a car designed by Gordon Murray and powered by Cosworth. For some people that trumps everything else, especially is you have room for other cars.

[anonymous-user]

SidewaysSi said:

Trexthedinosaur said:

SidewaysSi said:

Trexthedinosaur said:

edo said:

Quags said:

anonymous mid-range drear-fest 911 as this will have something that they don't - character and originality

Like a Kia Optima or a Fiat 500?

911s are everywhere, it's an extremely common site on the road, a TVR is something special; not a daily sports car.

Not sure why you bring up the 500 and Optima, the orginal 500 has bags of character, the 911 just doesn't, it is to clinical and dull!

Including the GT3 in that?

Sorry are we talking about each specific spec of the model or the model itself?

How about a 993 GT2, or a 997.2 (?) GT3 4.0; don't be pedantic, we are talking about the new TVR; not the specification of the car.

ETA; as above, a 911 is an all round sports car, that you could use daily, the TVR, I suspect is not aimed at that market, but as a +1 to an already existing garage.

Edited by Trexthedinosaur on Saturday 12th August 18:05

How is that pedantic? If anything you need to not be quite so narrow minded, as I am sure even you know that a GT Porsche is very different from a standard car.

If I were in the £100k ish market for a fun car, the TVR would absolutely be against a GT3/GT4, not a C2S for instance.

I want something as focused as I can get that thrills on the limit and is happy to be used on track as well as road. If TVR genuinely delivers on that then great.

But you can't get a brand new GT3 for £90k (LE) and the normal car should be circa £6-70k is my understanding, so well below a GT4.

Not sure of your point, are you comparing new Vs old or ... what?

[anonymous-user]

DonkeyApple said:

I very much doubt that this car will be as robust or sophisticated as a 911 or faster on a circuit than the top Loti but that doesn't really matter because the biggest selling point of this car is that it's not a 911 or a Lotus, followed closely by the fact that for bugger all money you're getting a car designed by Gordon Murray and powered by Cosworth. For some people that trumps everything else, especially is you have room for other cars.

Which is what makes "massaging the brand" so crucial. It's simply not possible to compete head to head with global car corporations when this TVR is going to be made in small volumes. It must offer something "different", because "better" is probably out of the question.

One of the great things about a Corvette in UK is that they're "rare over here" yet have all the benefits of being "mass-produced over there"!!

[anonymous-user]

To each their own but this is not a car knocked together in a shed by a couple a dreamers, this is a manual V8 drivers cars conceived by the man who took Aston Martin to Le Mans and engineered by the genius that created the McLaren F1. And don't forget the torque of the Cosworth fettled engine shut down their dyno on its first run and in Les' own words, "it's very very loud". I'd say these two petrolheads spent a long time debating all the issues mentioned in this thread and countless more, and after seeing the car and speaking to both of them, my deposit is in because I believe they got it right.

EDIT: I'm fortunate enough to have a 911 and an F430 and I have never for a moment considered the new TVR to be up against them. I'm hoping it will laugh out loud then try to tear my arm off and slap me with the soggy end.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 12th August 19:09

[ChilliWhizz]

SidewaysSi said:

TVR would absolutely be against a GT3/GT4, not a C2S for instance.

I want something as focused as I can get that thrills on the limit and is happy to be used on track as well as road. If TVR genuinely delivers on that then great.

Apologies for slicing up your post, but I think you've nailed it a bit there...

I said earlier (I think on this thread) that the 911/TVR comparisons were getting on my tits... (or something like that )

However, if we're comparing 90k car to 90k car, then there is (in my mind) no question that new TVR is up against it.... the 911 has been around and in development since the Roman legions conquered Europe and built the wall oop North.... It's a properly accomplished car in pretty much any of its very many guises... It's also in my opinion an interesting 'price point' (I fking hate that expression), because there are alot of peeps out there who have the dosh for these cars, love cars, and are proper driving peeps... they love fast cars, generally know how to drive them, and invariably will buy the car because its a great track day tool..... as well as a fun weekender... Hopefully new TVR will be an awesome track weapon as well as a great weekend toy... Wonder if it'll set a quick 'ring time

[SidewaysSi]

Trexthedinosaur said:

SidewaysSi said:

Trexthedinosaur said:

SidewaysSi said:

Trexthedinosaur said:

edo said:

Quags said:

anonymous mid-range drear-fest 911 as this will have something that they don't - character and originality

Like a Kia Optima or a Fiat 500?

911s are everywhere, it's an extremely common site on the road, a TVR is something special; not a daily sports car.

Not sure why you bring up the 500 and Optima, the orginal 500 has bags of character, the 911 just doesn't, it is to clinical and dull!

Including the GT3 in that?

Sorry are we talking about each specific spec of the model or the model itself?

How about a 993 GT2, or a 997.2 (?) GT3 4.0; don't be pedantic, we are talking about the new TVR; not the specification of the car.

ETA; as above, a 911 is an all round sports car, that you could use daily, the TVR, I suspect is not aimed at that market, but as a +1 to an already existing garage.

Edited by Trexthedinosaur on Saturday 12th August 18:05

How is that pedantic? If anything you need to not be quite so narrow minded, as I am sure even you know that a GT Porsche is very different from a standard car.

If I were in the £100k ish market for a fun car, the TVR would absolutely be against a GT3/GT4, not a C2S for instance.

I want something as focused as I can get that thrills on the limit and is happy to be used on track as well as road. If TVR genuinely delivers on that then great.

But you can't get a brand new GT3 for £90k (LE) and the normal car should be circa £6-70k is my understanding, so well below a GT4.

Not sure of your point, are you comparing new Vs old or ... what?

My point was not all 911s are the same and some are special, exciting and bloody good fun. Saying the 911 is an all rounder and presumably somewhat boring as a result is not really the case in all cases. You need to consider specific models when talking Porsches, something you failed to acknowledge.

[Oilchange]

It doesn't have to 'beat' anything, it just has to 'be'.

SidewaysSi said:

So 2 fingers at the 911 because it is different? Right.

TVR will do well to survive, let alone get near the success of the 911. 2 fingers indeed.

[bomb]

Cold said:

.............'stuff about technical systems'......followed by :-

TVR don't seem to have the budget or expertise to develop such a system ..........

I think Gordon Murray would be more than capable of designing such systems. Here is some info on his previous work. Not too shabby a 'CV' eh !


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Murray

I'll let him know that you don't have much faith in his expertise.

[anonymous-user]

As a recent owner of one I think TVR are, were a car of the moment. It was a unique time in space and time that allowed them to sell cars the way they did. The market has changed so much, to compete against very fast and well resolved sports cars they are up against it, £90K puts them bang into some serious and well established contenders. Looking at some of my favourite manufacturers who have failed along the years I hope they are being realistic with their targets and support them totally in the venture. We're a fussy bunch, the likes of Noble, Weissman etc lead me to believe that enthusiasts are well outnumbered. Keen to see what they make and how it does and where it gets pitched, nowadays a car has to start every day, take a load of abuse, run low on oil yet still have a warranty and go around the local track without breaking!

[Cold]

bomb said:

I think Gordon Murray would be more than capable of designing such systems. Here is some info on his previous work. Not too shabby a 'CV' eh !


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Murray

I'll let him know that you don't have much faith in his expertise.

I had no idea he was an electronics expert. I thought he just designed cars that were well regarded - but no one bought.

However, amusing fanboism aside, I stand by my statement that "No driver aids" = industry speak for "No money". It's being true to TVR if nothing else.