RE: New TVR - the update

[SidewaysSi]

Forget Porsche, Lotus are doing some special things these days and this will have to be truly exceptional to out drive an Exige.

[Digga]

LordGrover said:

Not quite ocean haze... what is it?

Yep, ocean haze with green 'ambla' hide I think.

Fish said:

Is that the lovely Danielle who used to do the tours on the right...

It is too.

[ChilliWhizz]

I wish people would stop talking about 911's.... great cars but common as muck, wrong configuration, somewhat sanitized, don't sound awesome, don't have a V8 up front, and every wannabe poseur buys one... No disrespect to 911 peeps, but it's not a TVR, and a TVR isn't a Porsche. Whoever first mentioned Porsche on this thread should be shot. Twice. In the Gonads.

Now feck off with your 911 comparisons, we're not interested.

Rant over...

Phew......

Wouldn't say no to a Singer though

[crankedup]

From a nostalgic view point I look forward to seeing and hearing the new tiv. The people behind it are no mugs, far far from it, not to mention the huge money involved it needs to be a success. Great Britishness returns, hurrah!!!!!

[Digga]

ChilliWhizz said:

I wish people would stop talking about 911's....

I've been on here since half the webnet was fields and most of the forum was TVR. Like it or not, a good many ex-TVR owners (eventually) migrated to 911s of various sorts, PetrolTed included. I'm currently running a 996tt.

Of all the things TVR needs to find some equivalency too - that's not to say slavishly copy - it is the 911, because like it or not, every other sports car is being compared to a 911 anyway, regardless.

Agreed a new TVR is going to be much more special.

[lemmingjames]

Byker28i said:

Has it a lack of driver aids? Traction control etc comes as part of the engine package and Les has previously said the interior design issues were around packaging the various electronics expected these days, not issues with the actual mechanicals

I dont know, im going by what people are saying on here. Either way i would imagine that only a small minority of buyers would really want a lack of driver aids but then thats who they maybe appealing to

Do you know the spec?

[anonymous-user]

SidewaysSi said:

Lotus are doing some special things these days and this will have to be truly exceptional to out drive an Exige.

Well, the design will be 25 years newer which should give TVR a good chance! And Edgar says he wants the cars to have broad appeal so you can safely say it will be nothing like the shoebox Exige.

In a world where few proper, modern V8 sportscars remain, I suspect his main competition will be seen as F-type and Corvette.

[TobyLerone]

ChilliWhizz said:

I wish people would stop talking about 911's.... great cars but common as muck, wrong configuration, somewhat sanitized, don't sound awesome, don't have a V8 up front, and every wannabe poseur buys one... No disrespect to 911 peeps, but it's not a TVR, and a TVR isn't a Porsche. Whoever first mentioned Porsche on this thread should be shot. Twice. In the Gonads.

Now feck off with your 911 comparisons, we're not interested.

Rant over...

Phew......

Wouldn't say no to a Singer though

Well, the comparison is going to be banded around a lot, especially after the release.

Like it or not, the 911 is pretty much the yardstick for sports cars at this price range, and for good reason.

This, I sincerely hope, will be aimed at a slightly different audience.

Big V8, proper manual 'box, excellent power to weight ratio, and a purer, un-complicated driver experience.

Not the usual Porsche target, I would hazard a guess (the GT2 and 3 excepted).

This has all the ingredients to be a bloody fantastic car. Something, conceptually, I would design myself.

With the Ford V8 and a Tremec T56, it should be all but bombproof in its mechanicals. Hopefully the electrics are robust, and build quality is sorted. If so.... I'll be very tempted to lash myself up in a few years when there are second hand motors on the market.

Edited by TobyLerone on Friday 11th August 16:49

[TobyLerone]

rockin said:

Well, the design will be 25 years newer which should give TVR a good chance! And Edgar says he wants the cars to have broad appeal so you can safely say it will be nothing like the shoebox Exige.

In a world where few proper, modern V8 sportscars remain, I suspect his main competition will be seen as F-type and Corvette.

I don't think it will be a hard-edged track focused weapon like the Exige, so it should be a more comfortable GT-esque experience.

The Jag doesn't come with a manual gearbox, and it's packed with electronics. So it won't be the main competition.

The Corvette is only LHD, so has limited appeal in the UK. Even so, it's not seen as a very special car (like the Viper) to an extent.

I hope dynamically it's lively. Then, I think they're on to a winner, with the potential to fill a (admittedly very specific) hole in the market.

[Thankyou4calling]

I'm sorry but this is not going to go well.

After an initial flurry of cars the reality will hit home that it isn't very good at all.

I'm afraid the world of the £70,000 car buyer has moved on hugely in the last 10 years and a company the size of TVR just won't have the resources to be anything more than an absolute niche player at best and a dinosaur at worst.

If total sales are less than 5000 a year (which they will be) it's simply not a sustainable business.

Feel free to calł me a cynic but I've seen it far too many times.

[ChocolateFrog]

I too hope this works for them.

I wouldn't describe an Aston as a sportscar, or an everyman's car personally.

Back on topic.

[SpeckledJim]

Thankyou4calling said:

I'm sorry but this is not going to go well.

After an initial flurry of cars the reality will hit home that it isn't very good at all.

I'm afraid the world of the £70,000 car buyer has moved on hugely in the last 10 years and a company the size of TVR just won't have the resources to be anything more than an absolute niche player at best and a dinosaur at worst.

If total sales are less than 5000 a year (which they will be) it's simply not a sustainable business.

Feel free to cal? me a cynic but I've seen it far too many times.

I expect they will be under 1000 a year never mind 5000, but if it snaps knicker-elastic, a LOT of sins will be forgiven.

[samoht]

At 1200kg or so it's significantly lighter than a 911 or Evora, it also has a V8 which is pretty cool and elevates it a bit, I think.

Plus the Americans have so far had all the 'wow' of TVR, in games and films, but none of the reality of actually living with them, so could be a big audience for the new car.

[gofasterrosssco]

Some of the comments implying the car will sort of have the build quality of an 80's Fiat, will fall off the road because it doesn't have ABS and some stability system are really very pessimistic..

I'd say the build quality will be highly respectable for a hand-build car, just as cars from smaller manufacturers like Lotus moved on with the Evora (and no, it wasn't like a 911, but that wasn't the point), and continues to improve. Plus if you read the article, a lot of the discussion with Mr. Murray is about the lean manufacturing processes they have applied, which I assume also considers a commensurably high level of build quality and material (because what's the point if you don't).

Also, I'd bet the Ford V8 will be NA, and perhaps a development of the flat-plane crank 5.2L version..

http://wardsauto.com/2016/ford-s-52l-high-revving-...

[samoht]

Bigchiefmuffin said:

I wish them all the best but am slightly surprised by all the noise they have managed to create on the back of purchasing the rights to three letters, TVR. If this was the exact same car, trying to sell at the exact same price, and was called the Les Edgar Special or something, we'd all be talking about Marcos & Connaught & Noble ( original ) & Frabio & Invicta and a whole host of other small well intentioned British companies who have tried to launch cars at this price point and failed. If anything, the market is even more crowded now with very good cars then when these companies floundered.

It's a big ask.

I think if "Les Edgar Special Ltd" had secured the services of Gordon Murray, aka designer of the ten million dollar car, then they would still have a fair chunk more credibility than your average SniffPetrol template-based effort ;-)

[suffolk009]

At least we won't have to get upset about the touch screen infotainment system not being up to snuff.

[anonymous-user]

Thankyou4calling said:

I'm sorry but this is not going to go well.

After an initial flurry of cars the reality will hit home that it isn't very good at all.

I'm afraid the world of the £70,000 car buyer has moved on hugely in the last 10 years and a company the size of TVR just won't have the resources to be anything more than an absolute niche player at best and a dinosaur at worst.

If total sales are less than 5000 a year (which they will be) it's simply not a sustainable business.

Feel free to cal? me a cynic but I've seen it far too many times.

Based on what? Have you driven one? Where do you get the figures that show 5000 to be the break even or profit point?

£70,000 for a manual, 2 seater; base 911, V8V, Corvette and A few others, not that great of a choice and £70k isn't a great deal these days for a premium car.

It needs drama, reliability and a brutal nature, like the old TVR's.

[Thankyou4calling]

ash73 said:

Yes they are mostly 4 pots now, that's progress. What else would you buy? A common-as-muck 911 with an engine made of cheese?

What would I buy?

This:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Or I might go for this;

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

The choice of cars at this price point is phenomenal and I'm not by any means convinced people (at least many of them) want limited driver aids in a manual car.

The days when people used to be prepared to put up with a cars shortcomings and pass it off as character have gone.

I've not looked but I'd imagine an AMG GT may be in that bracket soon to.

Yes, they are used cars but fully warranted and people will consider them I feel.

Edited by Thankyou4calling on Friday 11th August 17:58

[Streetrod]

Thankyou4calling said:

I'm sorry but this is not going to go well.

After an initial flurry of cars the reality will hit home that it isn't very good at all.

I'm afraid the world of the £70,000 car buyer has moved on hugely in the last 10 years and a company the size of TVR just won't have the resources to be anything more than an absolute niche player at best and a dinosaur at worst.

If total sales are less than 5000 a year (which they will be) it's simply not a sustainable business.

Feel free to cal? me a cynic but I've seen it far too many times.

Hang on, McLaren in their 7th year may just hit 5000 cars a year and they have been profitable for over 3 years now starting from ground zero. I see no reason if the business model is correct why TVR could not do a similar thing at their lower price point.

A quick question to those more knowledgable than me, but would you class the new Lexus LC500 as a competitor for the TVR. Its a V8 powered sportscar/GT with a very unique look, and having seen one recently in the flesh it is a very cool bit of kit with an amazing sound track. Yes it is very porky but according to all the reviews I have read is drives very well

[dandarez]

I won't hold my breath.

Over the last (many) years the numbers of 'back from the grave' sports cars or 'ground breaking' cars usually (inevitably) become the once (or twice) a year what I term 'Show' cars.

If it appears at Goodwood I would bet good money that it'll get all the front page splash and inside coverage in Autocar, Autosport, and the like (and on here).

Then it will all go quiet.

Then after a period of 'what happened to the new TVR?) it will suddenly re-appear at the Birmingham Motor Show (oh, miss that one out I forgot that annual pilgrimage got cancelled 13 years ago!). No it will appear at London ExCel (oh ste, that got cancelled too after a few years).
Ok, let's go and see it at Battersea Park. We really have gone backwards haven't we? Battersea Park!

Naturally, of course, it will be the 'star' at the Racing Car Show (oh, I'm showing my age now - when it really was 'the' Racing Car Show!).
I, of course, mean the January Autosport International.

I can't wait to see it.

Then see it again at another show. And another show.

I have ingrained memories of loads of these 'stars' over many years. Most never materialised into sales and if they did sell any it was few and far between. It was bloody difficult for specialist car manufacturers back then. It's always been difficult. Even for established small marques. Some more recent 'reborn' used previously old marque names, eg Jensen. It all went wrong. There were even lost deposits in that case. But read the initial write ups and announcements you'd have been forgiven for thinking they would become common sight.

Today the markets are so different. I hope I'm totally wrong and they make a wonderful car and sell in numbers to keep them going.
However, experience of years gone by, and the very different market today, I will not putting any money on its success, not even a new square sided pound coin.