RE: New TVR - the update

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Thankyou4calling said:

I'm sorry but this is not going to go well.

After an initial flurry of cars the reality will hit home that it isn't very good at all.

I'm afraid the world of the £70,000 car buyer has moved on hugely in the last 10 years and a company the size of TVR just won't have the resources to be anything more than an absolute niche player at best and a dinosaur at worst.

If total sales are less than 5000 a year (which they will be) it's simply not a sustainable business.

Feel free to cal? me a cynic but I've seen it far too many times.

Not really sure I agree. TVR, unlike many 'Fred in a shed' outfits has got a big following. As long as they remain true to the TVR ethos, balistic pace, a bit hairy, visually striking, then I think they stand a good chance. After all, they've managed to sell the first 500 on good will alone.

In the same vein as Swordfish they need to plant one as a gansters car in a Hollywood blockbuster! Any word on if they shall be US regs compliant, as the old range never were?

[lemmingjames]

rockin said:

Well, the design will be 25 years newer which should give TVR a good chance! And Edgar says he wants the cars to have broad appeal so you can safely say it will be nothing like the shoebox Exige.

In a world where few proper, modern V8 sportscars remain, I suspect his main competition will be seen as F-type and Corvette.

Could it be sold in America? Id imagine theyd love it over there, what with the Viper now dead

[Byker28i]

TobyLerone said:

ChilliWhizz said:

I wish people would stop talking about 911's.... great cars but common as muck, wrong configuration, somewhat sanitized, don't sound awesome, don't have a V8 up front, and every wannabe poseur buys one... No disrespect to 911 peeps, but it's not a TVR, and a TVR isn't a Porsche. Whoever first mentioned Porsche on this thread should be shot. Twice. In the Gonads.

Now feck off with your 911 comparisons, we're not interested.

Rant over...

Phew......

Wouldn't say no to a Singer though

Well, the comparison is going to be banded around a lot, especially after the release.

Like it or not, the 911 is pretty much the yardstick for sports cars at this price range, and for good reason.

This, I sincerely hope, will be aimed at a slightly different audience.

Big V8, proper manual 'box, excellent power to weight ratio, and a purer, un-complicated driver experience.

Not the usual Porsche target, I would hazard a guess (the GT2 and 3 excepted).

This has all the ingredients to be a bloody fantastic car. Something, conceptually, I would design myself.

With the Ford V8 and a Tremec T56, it should be all but bombproof in its mechanicals. Hopefully the electrics are robust, and build quality is sorted. If so.... I'll be very tempted to lash myself up in a few years when there are second hand motors on the market.

Edited by TobyLerone on Friday 11th August 16:49

Yeah, but at Supercar weekend at Beaulieu they were pretty unimpressive on the demo run, quiet, unimpressive. No doubt a sensible performance car, but the TVR's rather led the way with smokey tyres and noise

[Byker28i]

Streetrod said:

Thankyou4calling said:

I'm sorry but this is not going to go well.

After an initial flurry of cars the reality will hit home that it isn't very good at all.

I'm afraid the world of the £70,000 car buyer has moved on hugely in the last 10 years and a company the size of TVR just won't have the resources to be anything more than an absolute niche player at best and a dinosaur at worst.

If total sales are less than 5000 a year (which they will be) it's simply not a sustainable business.

Feel free to cal? me a cynic but I've seen it far too many times.

Hang on, McLaren in their 7th year may just hit 5000 cars a year and they have been profitable for over 3 years now starting from ground zero. I see no reason if the business model is correct why TVR could not do a similar thing at their lower price point.

Well build is only scheduled for 500 a year so I guess it's costed around that.

[Oilchange]

Quite. I like cars because of the way they make me feel. I dont care about residuals or quality of interior plastics and frankly I find 911s a little dull. They are leagues ahead (imo) of anything from Audi but still a little dull.
An angry V8 british bruiser, powered by Cosworth no less, would grab my interest. I'd walk straight past anything from Stuttgart...

[danp]

Article says:

"TVR customers will be able to choose both the chassis and body materials for their cars. "They choose the fundamental architecture materials which is either iStream Carbon [multi-tubular frame with steel components and carbon-fibre bonded panels] or iStream 3 [which replaces the steel tubes with aluminium sections], then they also have the choice of body materials"

That doesn't sound right to me.

I thought iStream was steel tubed frame with fibreglass panels between them, iStream carbon the same tubes but with carbon fibre panels.

As per: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/tokyo-auto-s...

[anonymous-user]

I'm looking forward to seeing this. Could be a brilliant piece of kit and a good two fingers at the VAG 911.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Streetrod said:

A quick question to those more knowledgable than me, but would you class the new Lexus LC500 as a competitor for the TVR. Its a V8 powered sportscar/GT with a very unique look, and having seen one recently in the flesh it is a very cool bit of kit with an amazing sound track. Yes it is very porky but according to all the reviews I have read is drives very well

They'd be potentially considered by the same buyers, but depending how hard core the new TVR turns out to be I'd say the Lexus is more of a Merc SL / BMW 6 series competitor. They're similar in as much as £90K V8 coupes, granted, but I'd hope the TVR would be a little more raw. The LC is where I'd put my money, I think they're amazing machines.

[GranCab]

This is what happens when you get it wrong .....

[Tuna]

dandarez said:

I won't hold my breath.

Over the last (many) years the numbers of 'back from the grave' sports cars or 'ground breaking' cars usually (inevitably) become the once (or twice) a year what I term 'Show' cars.

If it appears at Goodwood I would bet good money that it'll get all the front page splash and inside coverage in Autocar, Autosport, and the like (and on here).

Then it will all go quiet.

Then after a period of 'what happened to the new TVR?) it will suddenly re-appear at the Birmingham Motor Show (oh, miss that one out I forgot that annual pilgrimage got cancelled 13 years ago!). No it will appear at London ExCel (oh ste, that got cancelled too after a few years).
Ok, let's go and see it at Battersea Park. We really have gone backwards haven't we? Battersea Park!

Naturally, of course, it will be the 'star' at the Racing Car Show (oh, I'm showing my age now - when it really was 'the' Racing Car Show!).
I, of course, mean the January Autosport International.

I can't wait to see it.

Then see it again at another show. And another show.

I have ingrained memories of loads of these 'stars' over many years. Most never materialised into sales and if they did sell any it was few and far between. It was bloody difficult for specialist car manufacturers back then. It's always been difficult. Even for established small marques. Some more recent 'reborn' used previously old marque names, eg Jensen. It all went wrong. There were even lost deposits in that case. But read the initial write ups and announcements you'd have been forgiven for thinking they would become common sight.

Today the markets are so different. I hope I'm totally wrong and they make a wonderful car and sell in numbers to keep them going.
However, experience of years gone by, and the very different market today, I will not putting any money on its success, not even a new square sided pound coin.

I'm just going to quote this because I think you're so wide of the mark.

I'm not a TVR fan (I joined this site when it was pretty much Lotus Vs TVR for home grown iron, and I was on the 'other' side ), but from what I've read they've taken a very grown up approach to getting this to market.

[anonymous-user]

Esceptico said:

Max_Torque said:

Is "No driver aids" a real selling point in 2017??

I mean, sure, make then switchable with a Track mode or whatever, but personally, i'd like to have electronic stability control on my 400 bhp/tonne sports car (and i can drive pretty well compared to most buys of this new car i suspect.....)

Would you turn away an F40 or F50 on the basis that they have no electronics?

er, the F40 was last made in 1992 (25 years ago) and the last F50 in 1997 (20 years ago), i hardly think they are a valid point of reference for a new car buyer in 2017?

If you're buying one of the more bonkers track based specials (mono, atom etc) then no DSC is not a hindrance, for the new TVR which is a road car first and foremost, i think it's a major omission personally.

(traction control is not Stability control btw, sure, it might help a bit for heavy footed drivers, but in a true emergency dynamic situation you need the yaw authority that only selective brake application can provide)

[h0b0]

If this is the "British Muscle car" we should be comparing it to the US competition.....

61k pounds. I know, know it costs twice that to get it in the UK. But, this is a good comparison and I used to stare at TVRs in Manchester Bauer Millet where they also had Corvettes and so have always had the link.




6.2L SUPERCHARGED V8 DI ENGINE
650 hp @ 6400 rpm
650 lb-ft of torque @ 3600 rpm
0-601 in 2.95 seconds with available 8-speed paddle-shift automatic and Z07 Performance Package
Variable Valve Timing

[SidewaysSi]

janesmith1950 said:

I'm looking forward to seeing this. Could be a brilliant piece of kit and a good two fingers at the VAG 911.

In what way? I will be amazed if it beats a GT3 or Exige as a driver's car.

Or a plain C2 as an all rounder.

[Basil Brush]

gofasterrosssco said:

Some of the comments implying the car will sort of have the build quality of an 80's Fiat, will fall off the road because it doesn't have ABS and some stability system are really very pessimistic..

I'd say the build quality will be highly respectable for a hand-build car, just as cars from smaller manufacturers like Lotus moved on with the Evora (and no, it wasn't like a 911, but that wasn't the point), and continues to improve. Plus if you read the article, a lot of the discussion with Mr. Murray is about the lean manufacturing processes they have applied, which I assume also considers a commensurably high level of build quality and material (because what's the point if you don't).

Also, I'd bet the Ford V8 will be NA, and perhaps a development of the flat-plane crank 5.2L version..

http://wardsauto.com/2016/ford-s-52l-high-revving-...

It's na but not the flat plane version iirc. There is a video on youtube of it being run on a dyno.

[jonny142]

Can't see it mentioned here for the return for TVR in GT pro at Le Mans prob next year if i read it correctly ?.. 15 or so years is a long time since the last outing ..looking forward to this

[macky17]

ChilliWhizz said:

I wish people would stop talking about 911's.... great cars but common as muck, wrong configuration, somewhat sanitized, don't sound awesome, don't have a V8 up front, and every wannabe poseur buys one... No disrespect to 911 peeps, but it's not a TVR, and a TVR isn't a Porsche. Whoever first mentioned Porsche on this thread should be shot. Twice. In the Gonads.

Now feck off with your 911 comparisons, we're not interested.

Rant over...

Phew......

Wouldn't say no to a Singer though

Couldn't agree more. 911 carrera is a daily driver, tvr is a weekend toy - each fulfills its role far, far better than the other ever could. As a Tuscan owner I'm excited by this...

[m3jappa]

Ive been excited since the first news of this and I'm even more excited now. Im just gutted that i can't afford one and probably never will as I'm at the stage of my life now where I'm sure it will just get worse

Why can't it be gt3 like? that much power, light weight. It just needs to have a sorted suspension, tyre and brake package which I'm sure it will.

Ive got a feeling its going to be one hell of a car. i just hope the styling is good, thats my only worry, for some reason cars like this just always seem to look a bit kit car, i even think ferraris did when the 360 was their flagship, possibly the 430 as well, its the bonded in lights which do that imo. It needs to have its own headlight and not just a lens stuck over some round bulbs.

[tjlees]

h0b0 said:

If this is the "British Muscle car" we should be comparing it to the US competition.....

61k pounds. I know, know it costs twice that to get it in the UK. But, this is a good comparison and I used to stare at TVRs in Manchester Bauer Millet where they also had Corvettes and so have always had the link.

6.2L SUPERCHARGED V8 DI ENGINE
650 hp @ 6400 rpm
650 lb-ft of torque @ 3600 rpm
0-601 in 2.95 seconds with available 8-speed paddle-shift automatic and Z07 Performance Package
Variable Valve Timing

Yep.

Lots of competition at £90k - backed by manufacturers PCP finance so you don't have to buy upfront. Some GB similar companies have made it and are in rude health - e.g. Maclaren, Radical, Ariel, Caterham - so good luck to TVR.

I like the shape, the build (carbon with aluminium please) and potential.

Downside is unknown reliability, specially if you are going to trackday it.

It's a no from me at moment especially at £90k - I've bitten too often by early adoption - but maybe in a couple of years time when the bugs have ironed out.

[bullittmcqueen]

h0b0 said:

If this is the "British Muscle car" we should be comparing it to the US competition.....

61k pounds. I know, know it costs twice that to get it in the UK. But, this is a good comparison and I used to stare at TVRs in Manchester Bauer Millet where they also had Corvettes and so have always had the link.




6.2L SUPERCHARGED V8 DI ENGINE
650 hp @ 6400 rpm
650 lb-ft of torque @ 3600 rpm
0-601 in 2.95 seconds with available 8-speed paddle-shift automatic and Z07 Performance Package
Variable Valve Timing

Totally agree. C7 is finally a cool car again. This was in fact almost my choice until i heard of the TVR. BUT: it is a clear second to the TVR in my preference as it is 400 KG heavier, crammed with gimmicks and supercharged. This is not a "pure" car. In terms of power to weight it's about the same as the TVR, which shows how brutal 400bhp/ton actually are. I also think most TVR buyers would lean more to the Corvette than to a 911. The Corvette and the TVR have lot more in common in their approach to life.

[Yipper]

Think TVR is making a big mistake here.

Or they just want to sell a few quickly to meet pent-up demand for a nostalgic brand... and then flip the company and cash out.

Bringing a "big petrol manual" car at the end of the "big petrol manual" era is a strategic error.

At the very least, it should be a hybrid. Like a mini LaFerrari.

TVR need to be looking forward... not back.